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Old 08-28-2013, 05:05 PM   #121
AdamNJ
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Originally Posted by JWhites View Post
Hmm that's strange because the PKM803 card is supposed to only be used with Cisco leased hosts, and according Cisco Engineering when I spoke to them about a year ago, they said there intentionally isn't a way to pair it with customer owned equipment as the CableCARD ID is fused with the MAC address of the set top box to prevent the card from being mixed up with the PKM801 by installers. Here's what I mean from the PDF: "PKM803 may be provided by Cable Operator for use (by convention) in one- or two-way, multi- or single-stream leased Hosts" where the PKM801 which is rented to customers separately "PKM801 may be provided by Cable Operator for use (by convention) in one-way, multi- or single-stream retail Hosts" Maybe it's different with Cablevision.
I too saw the note in their PDF; however, I took "by convention" to mean that the PKM803 is two way capable (if in a two way device like like cable co equip), but would work fine in a one-way consumer Tivo. And unless the new Samsung boxes that CV has uses a CC, their old SA boxes didn't use a CC and used some other actual credit card thin "smart card" plugged into the front. So what I am getting at is idk why they would have CableCards to be used only for their leased equipment if they don't have any that use it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:13 PM   #122
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All Multi Stream cards are two way, whether it's the old PKM600 and slightly newer PKM800 or the new PKM801, PKM803, and PKM908. It's the host that makes the determination which mode it supports as you have said.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #123
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Why are you having this issue? I was under the impression Comcast Houston had cablecards that can handle six streams.

Anyone else in Houston have a Roamio?
Yes, my CC firmware is good and they can handle six streams. I don't know why this happens but when it does I can get all six back by entering the code for 5 tuners, reboot then enter the code for six tuners. I'm waiting to see if it happens again.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:55 PM   #124
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All Multi Stream cards are two way, whether it's the old PKM600 and slightly newer PKM800 or the new PKM801, PKM803, and PKM908. It's the host that makes the determination which mode it supports as you have said.
Are you sure that they are all two way? Because in the PDF you linked, the 801 doesn't mention two way. Or to modify the question, what is technologically different about the pkm800/801 vs pkm802/803? If there was nothing different, why have two models? Two way is the only apparent difference alluded to in that PDF.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:12 PM   #125
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I highly recommend anyone on Cablevision with this issue call into Cablevision; ask for the cablecard dept and explain the issue and that the firmware on your card is old and does not support 6 tuners as the fcc mandates that is needs to. Tivo says that on the SA/Cisco cards you need firmware level PKEY1.5.2.2801 or higher. http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566/ (expand 'troubleshooting' to see details)

Last night I spoke to a guy and he opened a ticket with the engineering dept detailing that. I stepped away from my desk without my phone, and when I returned I had a voicemail from "Margret in the Optimum repair dept". And she said the card is correctly binded to my host and "there is nothing wrong, if you need a firmware update you need to get it from Tivo". And she closed the ticket. It's obvious this person doesn't understand that it is the CableCard which has the software issue, not Tivo.

So I just called back to try reopening the ticket and had to create another one. The guy I spoke with argued with me that "if a firmware update is needed for the card, it will update", and "we can schedule a tech to come out or you can swap the card". He said he doesn't see anyone else with this issue. There is nothing physically wrong with my card, it is working correctly for 5 tuners. The issue is the firmware on the card needing to be updated to fix the 6th stream issue. I got him to put in another engineering ticket. I will need to keep my phone on me at all times I guess until I am called back.

And yes I've seen the post by Wilt in the yahoo group, but there are no details and "soon" is subjective. If they have little/no complaints about the issue they probably won't be in a rush to make "soon" become "now". Please call and lodge a complaint.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:17 PM   #126
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It might also be worth putting in a complaint to the FCC. If anything it might still show there are still support issues with CableCARDs.

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:18 PM   #127
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...And yes I've seen the post by Wilt in the yahoo group, but there are no details and "soon" is subjective. If they have little/no complaints about the issue they probably won't be in a rush to make "soon" become "now". Please call and lodge a complaint.
Would you please post a link to that post? Thanks. BTW, I remember Wilt helping me out a long time ago. He's partly the reason I stayed with Cablevision as long as I did.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:00 PM   #128
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Would you please post a link to that post? Thanks. BTW, I remember Wilt helping me out a long time ago. He's partly the reason I stayed with Cablevision as long as I did.
You will see Wilt's posts on the matter here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/c...s/topics/76754
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:09 PM   #129
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Are you sure that they are all two way? Because in the PDF you linked, the 801 doesn't mention two way. Or to modify the question, what is technologically different about the pkm800/801 vs pkm802/803? If there was nothing different, why have two models? Two way is the only apparent difference alluded to in that PDF.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD
"A common misconception is that there is a CableCARD 2.0 physical card that will provide two way services which is not compatible with a UDCP (one-way) certified devices. This is not the case. OpenCable Host Devices (two-way) are able to use either S-CARDs or M-Cards. And older UDCP certified devices can also use either card (but unless they are M-UDCP won't be able to take advantage of multiple streams).

Interactive features such as Video on Demand rely on the CableCARD Host device being an OpenCable Host Device and have nothing to do with the physical card. This makes the common use of the phrase "CableCARD 2.0" as a requirement for video on demand misleading, since two way services have been provided with the actual cards from the very beginning."
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:18 PM   #130
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Are you sure that they are all two way? Because in the PDF you linked, the 801 doesn't mention two way. Or to modify the question, what is technologically different about the pkm800/801 vs pkm802/803? If there was nothing different, why have two models? Two way is the only apparent difference alluded to in that PDF.
The 800/802 are Scientific Atlanta branded cards where as the 801 and 803 and 908 are Cisco (which now owns Scientific Atlanta) branded cards. The 802 and 803 go into leased equipment (set top boxes) by convention, where as the 800 and 801 go into customer owned equipment (TiVos), and the 908 goes into either. I contacted a Cisco engineer about your question and am awaiting an answer back.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:27 PM   #131
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I had a Comcast tech come out today and he was able to call the the "head end" and they were able to push an firmware update out from 1401(?) to 2401. I can only get 5 channels now. Is it possible that Comcast in my area can't support 6 streams even though with the firmware update my card can? I am getting a V58 error message. Also the tech said my signal strength was low, even though in my diagnostics screen I can see signal strength in the upper 90's, even seen 100 with 39 SNR. I think the strong signal strength could be the issue but the tech said it was weak.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:31 PM   #132
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I had a Comcast tech come out today and he was able to call the the "head end" and they were able to push an firmware update out from 1401(?) to 2401. I can only get 5 channels now. Is it possible that Comcast in my area can't support 6 streams even though with the firmware update my card can? I am getting a V58 error message. Also the tech said my signal strength was low, even though in my diagnostics screen I can see signal strength in the upper 90's, even seen 100 with 39 SNR. I think the strong signal strength could be the issue but the tech said it was weak.
According to TiVo, you need firmware version 2801 to support 6 tuners, so 2401 probably isn't going to be good enough. That being said, I can't get 6 tuners to work even with 3001.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:36 PM   #133
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According to TiVo, you need firmware version 2801 to support 6 tuners, so 2401 probably isn't going to be good enough. That being said, I can't get 6 tuners to work even with 3001.
Thanks, I'm an idiot. I knew I needed an update I just assumed it would have been enough to get all 6 working. I didn't even think their update wouldn't have been enough.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:04 PM   #134
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For those that are interested I am going to post the standards for CableCards. This is directly from Cable Labs and the SCTE.

CableCard Primer an overview:
http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/p...rd_primer.html

Open Cable CableCard Specifications:
http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/specifications/

Open Cable CableCard Host Specifications:
http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/s...ions/host.html

Open Cable Host Device 2.1 Core Functional Requirements:
http://www.cablelabs.com/specificati...I16-120531.pdf

CableCard Interface 2.0 Specifications:
The CableCard Error Codes are listed starting on page 241
http://www.cablelabs.com/specificati...I25-120531.pdf

CableCard Copy Protection 2.0 Specifications:
http://www.cablelabs.com/specificati...I12-120531.pdf

ANSI/SCTE 55-1 standard for Motorola systems ALOHA:
https://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/S...-55-1-2009.pdf

ANSI/SCTE 55-2 standard for Cisco/SA systems DAVIC:
http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/St...5-2%202008.pdf

ANSI/SCTE-106 standard for DSG (DOCSIS Set top Gateway):
http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/st...106%202010.pdf

SCTE Standards and Recommended Practices:
http://www.scte.org/standards/Standards_Available.aspx
http://www.scte.org/standards/Standa...ad_Page_2.aspx
http://www.scte.org/standards/Standa...ad_Page_3.aspx
http://www.scte.org/default.aspx

ATSC Standards:
http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/st...layout=default
http://www.atsc.org/cms/

Last edited by Jed1 : 08-29-2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:44 AM   #135
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If you have a Cisco CableCARD, running this firmware version:
OS Ver: PKEY1.5.2.2801 -OR- PKEY1.5.2_F.p.3001

and, you have seen a problem with one or more tuners, I have a series of steps you could try to help us better understand the issue.

(To check your Cisco/Scientific Atlanta CableCARD's firmware version go to TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Account & System Info > CableCARD Decoder > CableCARD options (for installers) > CableCARD Menu > SA CableCARD Diag Screen)

1. Make a note of the channel number that displays the "V58" error message.

2. Using the INFO button, bring up the info banner, and use the icon for the multiple tuners to visit each tuner and set ALL SIX of the tuners to a DIFFERENT channel than you've noted in step 1, and different from each other. (You need all six tuners to be on different channels, and none of those tuners should be on the channel you've noted in step 1.)

3. Now, type in the channel number you noted in step 1. This will tune the foreground tuner to this channel.

4. Reboot the box.

5. Go to Live TV. ALL six tuners will now be tuned to the channel from step 1.

6. Using the INFO button again, visit each of the six tuners. Wait on each of these tuners until audio and video appears


Possible results:

- If you see V58 on *every* tuner, your CableCARD is not correctly paired/authorized, or you do not have access to this channel in your cable package. (Call your Cable Company to resolve.)

- If you see V58 on only 1 tuner, and your firmware is 2801, you should set your box to use 5 tuners, and reboot. (We now think this firmware might only support 5 tuners, but we are still investigating.)

- If you see V58 on only 1 tuner, and your firmware is 3001, please email me (margret@tivo.com) ASAP with:
* your TiVo Service Number
* your CableCARD firmware number
* your Cable Company and Zip Code
* which channel failed in step 1
* whether your CableCARD is PKM800 or PKM803 (It should be on one of the CableCARD screens, but I'm afraid I don't know which one.)

- If you see video on all tuners, but are missing audio on one or more tuners, email me with the info above as well (and describe how many tuners didn't have audio).

Thanks!
--Margret
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:19 AM   #136
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- If you see V58 on only 1 tuner, and your firmware is 2801, you should set your box to use 5 tuners, and reboot. (We now think this firmware might only support 5 tuners, but we are still investigating.)
I would also like to hear from you if you encounter this result as well. Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:23 AM   #137
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Jed1, the cablecards themselves may indeed support 6 tuners but it's possible the headends don't either software, firmware, or hardware wise which might be a longer term problem.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:24 AM   #138
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I would also like to hear from you if you encounter this result as well. Thanks!
responded to your email the other day, not sure if you got it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:59 AM   #139
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You will see Wilt's posts on the matter here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/c...s/topics/76754
Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:40 AM   #140
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I just spoke with somebody in the Comcast Executive Care group. According to their system, my old PKM800 Cable Card with the 3001 firmware is listed as a PKM600 and my new PKM801 Cable Card with the 1401 firmware is listed as a PKM800. Could this model mismatch be responsible for the new card not receiving the 3001 firmware update?
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:26 PM   #141
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I just spoke with somebody in the Comcast Executive Care group. According to their system, my old PKM800 Cable Card with the 3001 firmware is listed as a PKM600 and my new PKM801 Cable Card with the 1401 firmware is listed as a PKM800. Could this model mismatch be responsible for the new card not receiving the 3001 firmware update?
I have no clue, but since the pkm600 is a single stream card, it seems wierd that they have it classified like that. And the 801 is the newer model of the 800. It seems to me that they all run the same exact firmware releases. So the only way it could matter is if comcast is using the model number to say whether or not the firmware should upgrade.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:33 PM   #142
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So the only way it could matter is if comcast is using the model number to say whether or not the firmware should upgrade.
I have a feeling it's something like that that's going on.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:27 AM   #143
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I'll add to the data pool since mine is different:

Motorola
FW* 06.25
FW 05.23

I'm not sure what this means to me yet, my Roamio arrives today so I'll know soon I guess.
I'm waiting on my Roamio (and 3 Mini's) to come in next week. Going to replace 3 Tivo Premiere's and my Comcast box so I can get away from all the extra fee's Comcast charges for additional boxes.

My concern is swapping out the cablecard as part of the upgrade which is why I came here to see if anyone had any issues with upgrades, especially going from 2 tuner in Premiere to now 6 tuner in Roamie Plus. I checked my current cablecards and I have Motorola with same FW versions so hoping that we both have a seamless upgrade (but doubt it since I have to deal with Comcast).
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:35 AM   #144
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i'm on cablevision in Hauppauge, NY...i get all tuners, had to work to get those but finally seemed to get them ok, but occasionally i lose audio on a tuner or 2...

just now watching a movie on the 6th tuner (Roamio plus) and everything is fine...all of a sudden i get some glitches and now its still there but no audio, can tune any channel but only audio on SD channels... restarting now since a recording just finished on another tuner...i'm sure that'll fix it as this has happened before but kind of annoying to have to reboot every once in a while because of that...
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #145
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I just went through the rigamarole with Charter Altadena, CA.

I moved my SA PKM800 card with version 1601 to the Roamio Pro and of course, only 4 tuners.

The latest firmware versions they have in their trucks is 2401. I told them I was willing to leave this open if they put in a request for either a later firmware card or a remote update of my card.

For now I guess I'll limit the Pro to 4 tuners. And post this so TiVoMargaret can add another MSO to the list of MSOs TiVo has to pester

Edit: Oh, and something a CSR told me, so take it with a CSR sized grain of salt, is that Charter Altadena is trying to get rid of all the analog channels as soon as they can. When that happens, they want to recall all tuning adapters and turn off SDV. That's happening "soon" (with CSR sized error-bars on "soon")

--Carlos V.

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Old 09-01-2013, 03:37 PM   #146
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I'm on Comcast with SA PKM800 PKEY1.5.2_F.p.2401

I'm experiencing tuner 6 crashing every 24 hrs or so. I can reboot and all will be working again but at some point tuner 6 will go V58- channel not authorized. I just found this forum and reduced my tuners to 5. Thanks for the temporary fix, Margret. Hopefully this will work until the update is available. otherwise i will reduce to 4 and try again....
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:21 PM   #147
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i'm on cablevision in Hauppauge, NY...i get all tuners, had to work to get those but finally seemed to get them ok, but occasionally i lose audio on a tuner or 2...
Can you please post your CableCard info (see post 32 in this thread) if you don't know where to look.

Also are you sure you are checking the 5th and 6th tuners? You can't just go off of the positional ordering of the info >> multiple tuner tab. You can see which tuner are using by memorizing the channel number you are on and looking in the same diagnostic screens. Also make sure that the channels you are viewing with those tuners are encrypted, not clear qam channels. If you need help with determining the tuners using the diag screens, I can do a better write-up when I am in front of my tivo.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:27 PM   #148
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It just appeared to me that I may have never posted my cablecard info to this thread, I just talked about the issue, so here it is:

H/W Model: 0803, Ver: 0010
Bldr Ver: 124
OS Ver: PKEY1.5.2_F.p.1401
Build Time: Apr 20 2009, 15:22:30

I set my Tivo Roamio Pro to 5 tuners and so far everything seems to be working okay without any issues on the 5 tuners that are enabled. Of course I would like to get the 6th working soon though.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #149
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determining the tuners using the diag screens, I can do a better write-up when I am in front of my tivo.
how to determine which tuner based on diag screens:
settings >> cablecard >> cablecard >> cablecard options >> cablecard >> ca screen (conditional access):
- press select twice and the you will be on a screen that says active program
- the index will be the tuner (note it starts from 0 so index 0 = tuner 1, index 1 = tuner 2...etc)
- just above the 'elementary streams' section, you will see something like: [tuner index] - [channel #] - [clear/ent]...
- tuner index is the tuner being used, see my note above
- channel # is obviously the channel it is tuned to
- if it says ent, then that means you are on an encrypted channel (and therefore the cablecard is being used to decrypt)
- if it says clear, then there is NO encryption and the CC isn't being used.

So when you are testing that all 6 tuners are working, be sure that u are on encyrpted channels.

Also there is a dvr diagnostics screen which is a little 'friendlier' which shows the tuner/channel relationship, but i don't think it tells u anything about whether a channel is encrypted or not.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:59 PM   #150
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Comcast Cable Naples Florida. Cisco PKEY1.5.2 F.P.2401. Recorded and played back 6 encoded channels. HBO, HBO2, HBOL, HBOZ, SHO, STARZ.

Just purchased 5 hours ago. TiVo downloaded software update. Called Comcast had my CC transferred from my Premier without an issue. Called the direct CC line.
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