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Old 08-28-2013, 06:41 PM   #1
MScottC
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Mini Networking issues.

I'm having disconnect issues with my newly acquired Mini and brand new Roamio Plus.

The Mini works fine for a while, but then starts stuttering and at times throws up the network disconnect issue.

I have a cat 5 cable running between two GigE switches. On the office switch is an ASUS router/wifi, cable modem, various office equipment and the Mini. The Livingroom has the aforementioned GigE switch which has the Roamio, a wifi access point, sling box, Roku 3 and Roku Soundbridge. The cable between the two switches runs through walls, and has my own homemade ends, which I can't totally vouch for, but haven't given me problems till now. Last night I measured throughput between two computers with GigE NICs. First I did it with the desktop and laptop in the office off the same switch, got a benchmark of about 800 Mbps. Then I took the laptop out to the livingroom and ran the same test and got about 400Mbps. Given that this is way higher than the bandwidth needed for moving HDTV, I'm not sure where I stand. As a further test, I replaced the cable embedded in my walls with a known good cat 5 cable running between the two switches. I'm still having the same issues.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:54 PM   #2
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Maybe there is some issue with the Mini. Does it feel hot like it might be overheating? Mine is connected to an old 200AV HomePlug network and I never have this problem.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:55 PM   #3
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Relatively cool. On the other hand it could be the Roamio as well.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:32 AM   #4
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Do you have any other TiVos to test with? If you had another Roamio or a Premiere then you figure out which was causing the problem. If not you may have to send one back, hope that fixes it, and if not send the other back. Or just send both back right away.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:41 AM   #5
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Unfortunately I have duplicates of neither. I'm going to call support and hope they'll send me a new box first... just not sure which to ask for as a replacement in the first go round. Some more advanced diagnostics or logging would be helpful. It would be cool if there was some log of which box is losing connections to what and when it's losing it, just to give some hint of where the problem lies. I trouble shoot this kind of stuff every day administering a 25 seat Avid ISIS Unity Video Server. But that gives you logs and a whole suite of tools that help pinpoint issues. This nothing more than "disconnected" and an error code which can not be found on the internet.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:50 AM   #6
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I'm having disconnection issues with my Roamio Plus and Mini also. The Mini seems to lose connection to the Roamio about 2 to 3 times an hour but I usually get the connection back within a minute or two. Doesn't seem to matter if I'm watching Live TV or recorded. Everything is hooked up via wired gigabit connection. Never had these issues with my two networked Premier XL's. I seem to have better luck if the Roamio's ethernet is connected directly to the wall outlet rather than to a switch. But I haven't tested this enough yet.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MScottC View Post
Unfortunately I have duplicates of neither. I'm going to call support and hope they'll send me a new box first... just not sure which to ask for as a replacement in the first go round. Some more advanced diagnostics or logging would be helpful. It would be cool if there was some log of which box is losing connections to what and when it's losing it, just to give some hint of where the problem lies. I trouble shoot this kind of stuff every day administering a 25 seat Avid ISIS Unity Video Server. But that gives you logs and a whole suite of tools that help pinpoint issues. This nothing more than "disconnected" and an error code which can not be found on the internet.
Ask for a replacement Mini first. Since it doesn't have any recordings or Season Passes it's the easier one to replace.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:34 PM   #8
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Well, I think I found the answer to my issue... the two pieces of gear I'd least suspect. As I said in earlier posts, a GigE switch resides on either end of a cat5 cable connecting my office/den/spare bedroom and my living room. The primary router, TiVo Mini and all my other gear hang off the office switch. A router in WAP mode, Roamio Plus and other A/V gear hang off the living room switch.

This morning I took the mini out to the living room, connected it to the switch there and lo and behold, still had issues. That ruled out the run between the two rooms. Exasperated, I almost walked away, but then in a last ditch effort, plugged both TiVo devices into the router in the living room and got no disconnects for a half hour. Wow, I'm on to something.

So, even though I had only fifteen minutes before needing to make my bus to work, I pulled the mini back into the office, totally reconfigured the wiring in my office to connect the mini, the switch and the living room line all to the Asus router, and in the living room, I connected the Roamio, the switch and the other end of the long run to the WAP/router. All my other gear hangs off the respective room switches. Since then, everything seems to be running perfectly.

I had no idea switches which appeared to have been working perfectly, and have nothing to configure, would cause me such aggravation.

For the record, these are TRENDnet 8-Port Unmanaged Gigabit GREENnet Standard Switches, model number TEG-S80G.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:30 PM   #9
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Green switches often turn off ports when they aren't being used. So if your Mini isn't actively receiving data from your TiVo, then your switch is probably disabling the port and dropping connectivity.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:38 AM   #10
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My Roamio was also connected to the Trendnet TEG-S80G switch. I tried another 8 port switch (Dlink DGS-10008G) but still had disconnect issues. My Mini is upstairs and is connected to a different switch (Netgear). So far, in my short testing, the only switch that hasn't given me a problem yet is a 5 port Trendnet TEG-S50G
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:29 PM   #11
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I have tried an external wireless card (not sure if that is the technical name of it or what) and it doesn't pick up anything either.

Robot Vacuum

Last edited by Alanbrad : 09-23-2013 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:35 AM   #12
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I've noticed this issue recently with my Roamio Plus and also sometimes with my Minis. I use all Dlink Switches. ALthough I didn't realize it was because of the green switches. I had changed my DHCP lease time to only 2 minutes yesterday and I didn't have the problem after that. So I'm moving the DHCP lease time up to see at what point I have issues again. But if the green switches are the problem, I might need to dust off some of my old Netgear, non green switches that I used to have many years ago. All my my old Dlink Switches in storage are also green switches so I guess there is no reason to try those older models.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekmedic View Post
Green switches often turn off ports when they aren't being used. So if your Mini isn't actively receiving data from your TiVo, then your switch is probably disabling the port and dropping connectivity.
I don't think this is the case, as I'd get disconnects while watching the Mini via the green switches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I've noticed this issue recently with my Roamio Plus and also sometimes with my Minis. I use all Dlink Switches. ALthough I didn't realize it was because of the green switches. I had changed my DHCP lease time to only 2 minutes yesterday and I didn't have the problem after that. So I'm moving the DHCP lease time up to see at what point I have issues again. But if the green switches are the problem, I might need to dust off some of my old Netgear, non green switches that I used to have many years ago. All my my old Dlink Switches in storage are also green switches so I guess there is no reason to try those older models.
It's also not a DHCP issue as the first thing I did when setting up both the Roamio Plus and the Mini was to assign static IPs


FYI, my primary router is an Asus RT-N56U, and the secondary router in WAP mode only is a Trendnet TEW432 BRP, 802.11g wireless router, about 5 years old.

Last edited by MScottC : 08-31-2013 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by MScottC View Post
I don't think this is the case, as I'd get disconnects while watching the Mini via the green switches.



It's also not a DHCP issue as the first thing I did when setting up both the Roamio Plus and the Mini was to assign static IPs


FYI, my primary router is an Asus RT-N56U, and the secondary router in WAP mode only is a Trendnet TEW432 BRP, 802.11g wireless router, about 5 years old.
So far I haven't had any problems with static IP's. Maybe it's a TiVo bug.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MScottC View Post
I don't think this is the case, as I'd get disconnects while watching the Mini via the green switches.



It's also not a DHCP issue as the first thing I did when setting up both the Roamio Plus and the Mini was to assign static IPs


FYI, my primary router is an Asus RT-N56U, and the secondary router in WAP mode only is a Trendnet TEW432 BRP, 802.11g wireless router, about 5 years old.
I'm using an RT-N56U also as my primary router.

I had seen the same issue on my Minis with a static IP also. I switched them off static IPs earlier this week when I switched the from MoCA back to Ethernet.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:29 AM   #16
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I found a Dlink Switch, a DGL series(version A2) that did not have the green label on it. Since I switched to the older DLink, I have not seen the connection drop out on the Roamio Pro. But I was also using the Pro alot too yesterday. I'll need to use it some more later this week to see if the issue actually doesn't crop up again.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #17
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Since I'm switched to a Trendnet 5 port "greennet" switch, I've only had 1 disconnect in the last 3 days. I'm back to using auto ip. When I had issues with my original trendnet greennet switch, I tried static ip but it didn't help.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:18 AM   #18
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Mini Networking issues.

Are the intermittent problems with the 8-port GREENnet switches occurring when the Mini is connected to them, or when the host Roamio/Premiere is?

I will have my Roamio connected to an 8-port and my Mini connected to a 5-port (still waiting on the Roamio to get here).

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:41 PM   #19
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I've only used the 8 port switches on the Roamio. The mini has always been connected to a 5 port non-green Netgear switch.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:59 AM   #20
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This would be a deal breaker for me. I will stick with a dedicated box if this is an issue. It seems like the cause is not know at this point. Am I correct?
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:43 AM   #21
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I have like 3 switches between my Mini and my TiVo, and all traffic travels across a both a powerline network and a MoCa network, and I never have any trouble with it.

Mini->Powerline->Switch->Switch->Moca->Roamio Pro->Switch->Premiere 2

My wife uses it most often and the above is the mapp the data has to take to get from the Mini to her Premiere. If she had problems with dropouts she'd let me know.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:30 AM   #22
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These "switch" issues with Tivo drive me crazy. I'm not sure what IP stack Tivo is using, however unless you are managing multiple vlans and subnets and have some crazy stuff going on, with a flat network using a single DHCP server/applet, there should be zero issues. Unfortunately, Tivo seems to be somewhat non-compliant with industry standard technology - and frankly points to a deviation from the IEEE standard (whether accidentally or deliberately). Any time you report a V301 or similar issue (which btw have HORRIBLE instrumentation) Tivo CSR will ask if you have a "switch", and if you do, they then say that "Tivo does not support switches". The reality is that unless you use MOCA and unless you have zero other hardwired Ethernet TCP/IP devices in your home, the mini cannot be used in any configuration without a "switch". Keep in mind that the "router" everyone talks about (from VZ, etc) is really a combination router/access point/firewall/DHCP server/switch. Emphasis on the "switch". IMHO it is simply another cop out on Tivos part to try and blow off software defects. I experience the same V301 issues that I reported a year ago. Tivo has been of zero help whatsoever. BTW, DHCP should have absolutely nothing to do with this. If this is somehow related to DHCP leases, something is HORRIBLY wrong.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:50 PM   #23
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Any time you report a V301 or similar issue (which btw have HORRIBLE instrumentation) Tivo CSR will ask if you have a "switch", and if you do, they then say that "Tivo does not support switches" ...
That's utterly ridiculous! These things are designed to be used on a network. How exactly is it possible to have a network without at least one switch?
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:29 PM   #24
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That's utterly ridiculous! These things are designed to be used on a network. How exactly is it possible to have a network without at least one switch?
You are exactly right. IMHO Tivo preys on the non-tech savvy folks out there because there are clear quality issues with their product and they either cannot or will not dedicate resources to resolving them. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good to Tivo, but quality has IMHO continuously declined over the past 5 years - dramatically.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:37 PM   #25
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That's utterly ridiculous! These things are designed to be used on a network. How exactly is it possible to have a network without at least one switch?
Well you can setup a PC as a DHCP server and every network connection is connected directly to an Ethernet card in the PC. This is how my network was setup in the late 90's and early 2000's. But I only had a few things on my network back then.
Now with over sixty devices that is not possible for me.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:30 PM   #26
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It does seem odd to be having these basic networking issues in this day and age. Sort of a throwback to the 1990s. I suspect at least part of the issue is that Tivo is a little more fussy than other ethernet devices for content security reasons. So some network configurations that might work perfectly well with say a pair of PCs will not work with a pair of Tivos. Most switches will for example quite happily bridge two subnets, but this will not work with a Tivo. Top tip: make double sure you are not running DHCP on more than one device in your network. Double sure.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:15 AM   #27
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It does seem odd to be having these basic networking issues in this day and age. Sort of a throwback to the 1990s. I suspect at least part of the issue is that Tivo is a little more fussy than other ethernet devices for content security reasons. So some network configurations that might work perfectly well with say a pair of PCs will not work with a pair of Tivos. Most switches will for example quite happily bridge two subnets, but this will not work with a Tivo. Top tip: make double sure you are not running DHCP on more than one device in your network. Double sure.
I doubt that would be an issue with the vast majority of people. Most people have one router, which is also used for wireless access. So right there they can easily have issues with wireless because they don't have multiple APs like a proper setup is supposed to have.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:07 AM   #28
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I doubt that would be an issue with the vast majority of people. Most people have one router, which is also used for wireless access. So right there they can easily have issues with wireless because they don't have multiple APs like a proper setup is supposed to have.
I come across friends and neighbors all the time who are running two routers, most without even realizing it. People who have some devices directly connected to their modem and other devices connected to a wifi router. People who have added a second wifi AP as a range extender and are running it as a router because that's what it defaults to.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:41 PM   #29
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Well you can setup a PC as a DHCP server and every network connection is connected directly to an Ethernet card in the PC. This is how my network was setup in the late 90's and early 2000's. But I only had a few things on my network back then.
Now with over sixty devices that is not possible for me.
Actually, not sure exactly what you're saying here. I was building networks back in the ArcNet days. In the late 90s and early 2000s you would still have needed a switch to have multiple connections to a PC, unless you had multiple NICs in the PC - in which case it would be a co-homed set of networks (which is a bad idea). A NIC does not have the ability to do what you said.

Back in bus network topology, you could serially network network devices - having a terminating resistor on both ends. Other than that, you need either a switch or at least a hub to have more than 2 devices - and have needed this for decades.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:49 PM   #30
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It does seem odd to be having these basic networking issues in this day and age. Sort of a throwback to the 1990s. I suspect at least part of the issue is that Tivo is a little more fussy than other ethernet devices for content security reasons. So some network configurations that might work perfectly well with say a pair of PCs will not work with a pair of Tivos. Most switches will for example quite happily bridge two subnets, but this will not work with a Tivo. Top tip: make double sure you are not running DHCP on more than one device in your network. Double sure.
I agree with the first part of your statement, but your suspicion.
I do NOT believe it has a darned thing to do with content security. There are plenty of devices that have to deal with this - specifically including cable/fios provided dvr's among others.

The bottom line here is that Tivo simply violates IEEE standards and best practices, either deliberately or accidentally. Switches do not manipulate packets. Period. Routers and firewalls can have different effects, but not switches. These are clear flaws/defects in the Tivo system, for which Tivo has not shown the slightest indication that they are trying to fix.

For my "job", I have hundreds of thousands of network devices, with encryption for data at rest and data in motion, Enterprise VoIP, video, many many many petabytes of data. The fact that Tivo points to "switches" as creating problems for their devices speaks volumes. No self respecting technology/service company (which is exactly what they are) would either allow this, or would admit it.

This really makes me question even more what will happen to Tivo as more IP delivered content becomes mainstream, and more homes become "unplugged" from cable/fios/etc. These services are Tivos weakest link.
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