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Old 08-29-2013, 03:54 PM   #751
tatergator1
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Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
Does anyone know if CableCard pairing information survives the installation of a new hard drive? Or does the host ID change when the new drive is configured?

In other words, should I wait for my new hard drive before making the CableCard pairing call? The call is sufficiently unpleasant that I don't want to make it more than once.
The consensus is that nothing survives a disk swap. I'd wait to pair your Card to save repeating the process in a couple days.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:12 PM   #752
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If you can fix the software to allow the expansion of a drive that would very useful, as then, in the future, if I wanted to upgrade my 2Tb Plus to a 3Tb Plus I would not have to start over.
I think TiVo hard drive design is for TiVos benefit to give the fastest response and save money in production, so now the system can just have a hard drive go in without any preformatting, that will save some money, and the amount of money TiVo will not get because of people putting in their own hard drive and having to lose the TiVo warranty, I think is small. 99% of TiVos that do go bad it's the hard drive, now on the Roamio all TiVo has to do is drop in another hard drive and they have a refurb TiVo to sell.
I think the biggest advantage for TiVo is during the initial manufacturing phase. I don't know what their refurb numbers are, but it makes sense both ways. I hope the person who said "Why don't we drop empty drives in the box and save all the time and money we spend imaging them" gets a big pat on the back and a bigger bonus check.

It's good for them, it's good for us, and a win-win situation all around.

I'll probably figure out enough of the new format to rewrite DvrBARS just because that's how I'm built, but if ten people per year actually use it on Roamios I'd be surprised. We don't need me anymore.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:14 PM   #753
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I found a free Wiki we might be able to use. If someone wants to start creating a page dedicated to upgrades on Roamio.

http://tivo.wikia.com/wiki/TiVo_Wiki
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:42 PM   #754
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I'll probably figure out enough of the new format to rewrite DvrBARS just because that's how I'm built, but if ten people per year actually use it on Roamios I'd be surprised. We don't need me anymore.
Don't say that, you have done us a great service for us DIY people, good luck and if I can help just PM me.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:09 PM   #755
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It's not an entire "all or none" situation. ONLY the AV data gets written in streaming mode, if supported, and enabled. As I've said in other posts, even if TiVo ever did start using it, the databases would still be written as data, not as an AV stream. So, there would still be both error-handling algorithms in use.

Your post would lead one to believe the entire drive gets one toggle, and changes modes. That's not how it works. Perhaps that's why TiVo hasn't used it, so far. It would require extra work to implement, because it's not just a whole-drive mode toggle.
Oops. I hadn't looked into it (having not build a HTCP) and naively assumed it was a whole drive toggle.

Thanks for correcting me.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:20 PM   #756
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I started it just to put some stuff up there. Feel free to update it.

http://tivo.wikia.com/wiki/Category:...e_Upgrades#FAQ
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:32 PM   #757
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Oops. I hadn't looked into it (having not build a HTCP) and naively assumed it was a whole drive toggle.

Thanks for correcting me.
In retrospect, I can see how my post kind of left the door wide-open for one to make that very assumption (if they didn't know what we both now do).

I've also thought about the question "Why would TiVo keep writing AV as regular data, and not use the streaming support in every TiVo drive?".

1. May break interoperability or backward-compatibility, MRV, MRS, TiVo Desktop.

2. Could require re-encoding on-the-fly before it could ever be transferred and/or streamed off the TiVo (and eat up processor cycles).

3. They figure "It isn't broken, so don't fix it" (or are just lazy).

4. We don't even know enough yet to know if it is enabled, or can be enabled, on the Roamio.

It begs the question "Why do they use AV-rated (AV streaming capable) drives?". Contrary to what some believe, AV-rated, and 24x7-rated, are two separate ratings. The former means it supports something, the latter is more of a badge, with the manufacturer's blessing.

That's something that there are many theories about, and has been the subject of much debate (besides this thread). I'm afraid to even touch it again, since it can only lead to speculation/debate/WAGs, and the like.

Although, if you think about the platforms (security/video surveillance) that use the streaming, how many videos are being recorded and played-back at a time... I would think that a casino surveillance system would be using the streaming function to full-potential, plus writing the date/time stamps in a separate data stream, in a non-AV mode (to insure against corruption).

EDIT/ADD: I'll take a poke at this anyway... Long before there were TiVos and mainstream TV DVRs, there was surveillance, where the drive trying to correct an error, rather than keep the video streaming consistently, could be a really big deal. That's EXACTLY what AV-rated drives were ORIGINALLY marketed for use in. It's only been recently, that they ADDED personal DVR use as a target market, even though TiVo was already using them. Maybe TiVo keeps on thinking someday they'll turn it on and make use of it. But, unlike a surveillance system, TiVo only needs to if they reach a certain number of streams, or wants to put multiple streams onto one screen, in realtime, like a surveillance system can do. I'm sure the drive manufacturers must've either given TiVo a great offer, or applied some pressure, but can I prove that? No.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:35 PM   #758
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New 2TB drive is in, going through 1st call in and download now.




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Old 08-29-2013, 08:13 PM   #759
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New 2TB drive is in, going through 1st call in and download now.
I just did this today also. All went well.

However getting the lid off and on was a pain. It still seems loose. Also all 4 feet fell off during the upgrade.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:14 PM   #760
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Odd, I did not lose any feet but have been seeing people dealing with that.

There ya go


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Old 08-29-2013, 08:15 PM   #761
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Also all 4 feet fell off during the upgrade.
I looked at the feet (they've basically fallen off every time I moved the TiVo or upgrading HDs etc.) closely and I swear they're put on upside down (one 'side' of the padding has larger surface area, and I think that's the side that the manufacturers are supposed to have put the adhesive on to connect to TiVo).

I just ended up super gluing them on eventually so don't have to deal w/ lost feet down the road.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:49 PM   #762
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Has anyone kept the lid off for a bit during the start up to see how much that little fan blows? Does it seem sufficient? Sure does seem awfully small and thin
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:08 PM   #763
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True, but I hope to have a new version of DvrBARS out in a few weeks that adds Roamio support. Backup and expansion are pretty much things of the past with this new line as long as you're willing to start over from scratch, but if I can figure out a way to do it that keeps your existing stuff it might be useful to some people.
I dont have one, nor plan on getting one....but I would think it would be useful to write a program to back up the cablecard pairing area...so if you do have to upgrade or replace the drive, you could write the cablecard pairing back to the new drive without the hassle of messing with the cable company.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:54 PM   #764
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I dont have one, nor plan on getting one....but I would think it would be useful to write a program to back up the cablecard pairing area...so if you do have to upgrade or replace the drive, you could write the cablecard pairing back to the new drive without the hassle of messing with the cable company.
Only a bit to bit copy will do the cable card thing and today it only takes a phone call to pair a cable card on most cable systems.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:47 PM   #765
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
In retrospect, I can see how my post kind of left the door wide-open for one to make that very assumption (if they didn't know what we both now do).

I've also thought about the question "Why would TiVo keep writing AV as regular data, and not use the streaming support in every TiVo drive?".

1. May break interoperability or backward-compatibility, MRV, MRS, TiVo Desktop.

2. Could require re-encoding on-the-fly before it could ever be transferred and/or streamed off the TiVo (and eat up processor cycles).

3. They figure "It isn't broken, so don't fix it" (or are just lazy).

4. We don't even know enough yet to know if it is enabled, or can be enabled, on the Roamio.

It begs the question "Why do they use AV-rated (AV streaming capable) drives?". Contrary to what some believe, AV-rated, and 24x7-rated, are two separate ratings. The former means it supports something, the latter is more of a badge, with the manufacturer's blessing.

That's something that there are many theories about, and has been the subject of much debate (besides this thread). I'm afraid to even touch it again, since it can only lead to speculation/debate/WAGs, and the like.

Although, if you think about the platforms (security/video surveillance) that use the streaming, how many videos are being recorded and played-back at a time... I would think that a casino surveillance system would be using the streaming function to full-potential, plus writing the date/time stamps in a separate data stream, in a non-AV mode (to insure against corruption).

EDIT/ADD: I'll take a poke at this anyway... Long before there were TiVos and mainstream TV DVRs, there was surveillance, where the drive trying to correct an error, rather than keep the video streaming consistently, could be a really big deal. That's EXACTLY what AV-rated drives were ORIGINALLY marketed for use in. It's only been recently, that they ADDED personal DVR use as a target market, even though TiVo was already using them. Maybe TiVo keeps on thinking someday they'll turn it on and make use of it. But, unlike a surveillance system, TiVo only needs to if they reach a certain number of streams, or wants to put multiple streams onto one screen, in realtime, like a surveillance system can do. I'm sure the drive manufacturers must've either given TiVo a great offer, or applied some pressure, but can I prove that? No.
Also the video production industry likes their A/V drives (TV Stations, studios, etc).
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:16 AM   #766
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Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
I'll probably figure out enough of the new format to rewrite DvrBARS just because that's how I'm built, but if ten people per year actually use it on Roamios I'd be surprised. We don't need me anymore.
Your great work with DvrBARS is more important than ever with the launch of a new TiVo hardware platform. Having the ability to upgrade and expand to a larger drive with a storage capacity not available today while preserving recordings will always be very useful IMO. I would say the same for guided setup info, cable card pairing data, etc, but that is likely stored on internal flash now. Having a single utility that will work on all generations of TiVo hardware is also a pretty big deal.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:22 AM   #767
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My 3TB AV GP drive arrived and it has been installed and is working quite well. No issues on the install at all. Just too simple!

It now shows 477 HD hours... That is great!
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:28 AM   #768
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Awesome!

Hopefully as we start filling them no problems show up. Ive used 2% of my 2TB so far.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:29 AM   #769
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Ordered a Roamio Basic and 3TB AV-GP drive from Amazon yesterday. I had gift cards that practically covered the entire cost. I'm hoping both might show up Saturday but it looks like the Roamio will not be here until Tuesday. When it arrives I'll mostly likely add lifetime for $399. I have no plans to move away from OTA. Will probably keep my upgraded Tivo HD connected and load it up with Movies so they'll be ready to watch at any time.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:37 AM   #770
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We are over the air only and the picture is fantastic!

For the cable stuff we miss, we purchase season passes on iTunes and play them through an Apple TV. This works very well and saves us quite a bit of money each year.

Happy to be a cord cutter!

As this new drive gets some use, I will sure post if there are any issues.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #771
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Does Winmfs work with the Roamio. I have had a Plus for a couple of days and would like to upgrade the drive without having to recreate the season passes and losing my recordings.

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:09 AM   #772
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Not that I know of. DVRbars will be your best hope if they are able to update it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #773
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The first disk drives I worked with looked like this:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/p...4-21_Feb74.pdf
I used to see those when I was upgrading TeleType machines to 300 bit per second modems.

ON TOPIC:

I have a Roamio Basic on order because ATSC is my only option, and I have just ordered the WD-AV 3TB model from Amazon for $137.change
Amazon ASIN B004W9BKE0. Goodbye stupid Premiere XL with yucky Flash. Hateses it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #774
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I used to see those when I was upgrading TeleType machines to 300 bit per second modems.

ON TOPIC:

I have a Roamio Basic on order because ATSC is my only option, and I have just ordered the WD-AV 3TB model from Amazon for $137.change
Amazon ASIN B004W9BKE0. Goodbye stupid Premiere XL with yucky Flash. Hateses it.
As someone who used to have DirecTiVos updated to 500 Hours, this will be nice to be back to that size.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:26 AM   #775
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do you guys store whole seasons of shows for years?

I've always had limited capacity.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:29 AM   #776
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do you guys store whole seasons of shows for years?

I've always had limited capacity.
Yes until I feel like watching a show, and then I watch a couple. If I like it I will tend to do multiple marathons to catch up. I am in the process of doing this with Castle and recently did it with The Good Wife. If not, I delete the entire series.

I also record everything and anything that looks remotely interesting. On top of that I set up a ton of season passes for 1 or 2 episodes of reruns for shows like Top Gear in case I feel like watching it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #777
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I've almost watched everything on my Tivo HD. I plan to have them both hooked up. Will give me a total of like 600 HD hours or so.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:50 AM   #778
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Does Winmfs work with the Roamio. I have had a Plus for a couple of days and would like to upgrade the drive without having to recreate the season passes and losing my recordings.
At this point I can confirm that WinMFS, MFSLive & jmfs won't work on a Roamio without a fairly comprehensive rewrite. The file system is still familiar enough that I think I can figure it out, but there are some major changes that invalidate every previous program including DvrBARS.

Without a 3TB image I'm stuck. PapaArt's 500GB image (thanks again) was really informative but it doesn't tell me how they broke the 2TB limit.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:58 AM   #779
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Without a 3TB image I'm stuck. PapaArt's 500GB image (thanks again) was really informative but it doesn't tell me how they broke the 2TB limit.
I'll be receiving and installing a 3tb drive in a Plus later today. What do you need?
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:05 PM   #780
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At this point I can confirm that WinMFS, MFSLive & jmfs won't work on a Roamio without a fairly comprehensive rewrite. The file system is still familiar enough that I think I can figure it out, but there are some major changes that invalidate every previous program including DvrBARS.
Thanks for the heads up!
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