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Old 08-26-2013, 04:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
So I guess that's my question. Was the Genoa story just a spectacular confluence of conincidences that all came together at the right time to cause the gigantic screw up?
Yes. That was the point of the soliloquy slash history lesson that Will gave to the lawyers near the end of the episode.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:49 PM   #32
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Yes. That was the point of the soliloquy slash history lesson that Will gave to the lawyers near the end of the episode.
No, that was not Will's point. Will's point was that a single mistake can cause a large, dramatic failure. In this case, the doctoring of the raw interview footage was responsible (for want of a nail, the kingdom was lost). Not an institutional failure. That was Will's point.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #33
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Here's the post from last week's thread with the game footage isolated. You can clearly see the shot clock jump from 19 to 3. Not sure how none of us noticed that before.
We only needed a telescope to see it.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:10 PM   #34
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I was thinking, "Man! Jane Fonda can still chew the scenery when she wants to!". That was such an excellent performance!
I wanna see the TiVo stats on how many of us were freeze-framing and jump-backing to see how sheer Jane Fonda's gown top was.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:15 PM   #35
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So I guess that's my question. Was the Genoa story just a spectacular confluence of conincidences that all came together at the right time to cause the gigantic screw up? Cyrus West planted the story and hooked Jerry up with Sweeney. What were their angles for telling this story? The General confirmed that Genoa happened before the cameras started rolling, and it seemed pretty clear he knew what he was saying when he did that. It was only then that they got the fake helo manifest. So if Charlie's source had nothing more to do with the story than providing one of the many pieces of evidence, that seems rather far fetched that he would expect that piece of evidence to lead to ACN reporting a false story.
Hmmmm. I wonder why they didn't list Cyrus West as evidence #1?

Was he put up to it by Charlie's (and Wil's) Pentagon guy?
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #36
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I wanna see the TiVo stats on how many of us were freeze-framing and jump-backing to see how sheer Jane Fonda's gown top was.
Really? The thought never crossed my mind, although you can feel free to post a picture to the over 40 thread.

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Old 08-26-2013, 05:52 PM   #37
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These days I'm watching just for Don and Sloan. Love them. The rest? Meh.
Me too.
I love me some Olivia Munn, and Don's opening scene with the lawyer was excellent.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #38
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Hmmmm. I wonder why they didn't list Cyrus West as evidence #1?

Was he put up to it by Charlie's (and Wil's) Pentagon guy?
Cyrus West wasn't providing any direct knowledge of the op, so he wouldn't be counted as evidence. He just provided a tip that led them to Sweeney.

Oh, and I forgot about the NGO guy that Neal found during the Occupy Wall Street part. So that's one more piece of the crazy coincidence that all happened to come together to corroborate a fake story.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:40 PM   #39
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I wanna see the TiVo stats on how many of us were freeze-framing and jump-backing to see how sheer Jane Fonda's gown top was.
There was almost certainly a nude-colored opaque panel underneath the lace and tulle.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:43 PM   #40
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Hmmmm. I wonder why they didn't list Cyrus West as evidence #1?
Cyrus West didn't have evidence. All he had was information that someone else had evidence.

At best, all Cyrus West could be said to have is hearsay evidence.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:45 PM   #41
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Cyrus West just provided a tip. He was nothing more than that. It wasn't evidence. It was simply a tip to someone else who may have evidence of a story.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:06 PM   #42
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Really? The thought never crossed my mind, although you can feel free to post a picture to the over 4075 thread.

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Old 08-27-2013, 12:03 AM   #43
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There was almost certainly a nude-colored opaque panel underneath the lace and tulle.
Nah. It was all one dress fabric. The skin-toned part had the black lace on it and it went all the way up to her neck, but it wasn't obvious that it did.


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File Type: jpg jane-fonda-newsroom.jpg (33.5 KB, 176 views)
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:28 AM   #44
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This was worth all of the romcom BS during the rest of the season. Well written, well acted.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:22 AM   #45
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We've lost the public trust!
GET IT BACK!

So well written and acted.
It's "West Wing" good.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:50 AM   #46
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We've lost the public trust!
GET IT BACK!
[smash cut to black]
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:41 AM   #47
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So I guess that's my question. Was the Genoa story just a spectacular confluence of conincidences that all came together at the right time to cause the gigantic screw up? Cyrus West planted the story and hooked Jerry up with Sweeney. What were their angles for telling this story? The General confirmed that Genoa happened before the cameras started rolling, and it seemed pretty clear he knew what he was saying when he did that. It was only then that they got the fake helo manifest. So if Charlie's source had nothing more to do with the story than providing one of the many pieces of evidence, that seems rather far fetched that he would expect that piece of evidence to lead to ACN reporting a false story.
I don't know, I found the whole setup to the fake story, well, not very realistic. Maybe there's more to be explained. To me, there were too many coincidences for this to be, well a series of coincidences. When the CIA source talked to Charlie, my assumption was that he set this whole thing up as revenge for them firing his son. At least that's how it appeared to me. And if that's the case, I find it extremely far fetched. I guess the CIA could pull off something like this if they wanted to, but, just as revenge for firing his son, seems a bit drastic (and yes, I get that his son died). There are too many pieces he'd have to put together and get to agree to it. If that's the case, while I loved everything around it. I really didn't like that. If there's a clearer explanation than just a bunch of coincidences, I'm all ears.

The whole Jane Fonda thing to me also seemed kind of fake and out of character to me. I think in most cases someone like her would have asked for all of their resignations rather than protect them like that, a la Dan Rather. Of course if she fired them, there'd be no show. So, I'm not really sure what to make of her reaction (well she was probably drunk/stoned so maybe when she sobers up her reaction will be different). The whole McMac thing was REALLY stupid and not funny.

And what case does Dantana have to claim it was wrongful termination, unless he's just after his pound of flesh? He, alone doctored the tape and didn't tell his bosses, so he would be fired regardless of who's fault the whole thing was.

Still it was a very entertaining episode and I enjoyed it for what it was. At least we finally got to the point of the whole season.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:48 AM   #48
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And what case does Dantana have to claim it was wrongful termination, unless he's just after his pound of flesh? He, alone doctored the tape and didn't tell his bosses, so he would be fired regardless of who's fault the whole thing was.
Sorkin lifted the fact pattern from Operation Tailwind, complete with the news coverage, the firing(s), and the wrongful termination lawsuit.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:58 AM   #49
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Sorkin lifted the fact pattern from Operation Tailwind, complete with the news coverage, the firing(s), and the wrongful termination lawsuit.
Oh I know all that. But, I don't see in your link where those terminated actually doctored anything to make the story more plausible. That's different than leaving out parts of the story or information that could have refuted the claims. He clearly took footage and doctored it so that the General said something he didn't. To me that's firable.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:27 AM   #50
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I loved it. Found myself checking the timeline hoping it wasn't over yet.

But yeah, it seems we won't get any explanation for how the other sources (the soldier and the general, mostly) came to either believe Sarin was used or want ACN to falsely report it.

Also surprised that the general didn't put the basketball game in the shot on purpose, and it was just good sleuthing (a bit late) by Mac to figure that out.

Was Will's source the same as Charlie's? Or was that just something they didn't check? If not, was/is Will prepared to reveal his source as part of the lawsuit?

Also kind of surprised these meetings were only two months after the fact. Dantana got his lawsuit filed PDQ.

How many more episodes?
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:33 AM   #51
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How many more episodes?
I think only one, but I could be wrong.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:57 AM   #52
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I think only one, but I could be wrong.
You are...two (Election Night Parts 1 & 2).

So I think there's still plenty of time to find out how the "conspiracy" came together...
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:59 AM   #53
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There are only nine episodes this season? That seems a strange number. Weren't there ten in S1?
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:23 AM   #54
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Oh I know all that. But, I don't see in your link where those terminated actually doctored anything to make the story more plausible. That's different than leaving out parts of the story or information that could have refuted the claims. He clearly took footage and doctored it so that the General said something he didn't. To me that's firable.
Sorkin said that exactly that is is what happened at CNN on the Tailwind story. A producer edited "If we did it." into "we did it"
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #55
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What happened with the NGO guy? IIRC Neal dropped trying to talk to him when they said they had an alternate source...and Wil P-O'd the professor.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:42 AM   #56
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There are only nine episodes this season? That seems a strange number. Weren't there ten in S1?
Oddly enough, that seems to be the case.

And yes, ten in Season 1.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:37 PM   #57
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You are...two (Election Night Parts 1 & 2).
Ah, okay. I knew from earlier commentary that the season would end with the election, and I saw from the promo that the next episode would be the election. I just didn't account for the possibility of it being a two-parter.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:33 PM   #58
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If the shot clock was visible in the raw footage, and they'd all watched it "a hundred times," how did nobody notice it before that? I thought it would at least be something a little more subtle like them getting a copy of the actual game footage and playing it side by side and seeing that there was a piece missing. For the shot clock to have obvious time missing and then nobody to have seen it before then kind of does speak to an institutional failure.
If I remember correctly, during one of the first meetings where they were watching the video, Mack made some comment about the game being on in the frame. Jerry said they would block it out when it aired.

When we saw it air, the game was in the frame, but digitally blurred out.

Perhaps (for the sake of suspension of disbelief) we can assume that after that initial meeting, the digitally blurred version was the one they watched "a hundred times." Then when Mack thought to look at the game clock, she naturally had to go to the real raw footage in order to see the un-blurred game.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:59 PM   #59
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If I remember correctly, during one of the first meetings where they were watching the video, Mack made some comment about the game being on in the frame. Jerry said they would block it out when it aired.

When we saw it air, the game was in the frame, but digitally blurred out.

Perhaps (for the sake of suspension of disbelief) we can assume that after that initial meeting, the digitally blurred version was the one they watched "a hundred times." Then when Mack thought to look at the game clock, she naturally had to go to the real raw footage in order to see the un-blurred game.
Also, someone (Will?) made the comment that it never would have gone unnoticed if something were actually visibly happening in the section of game in the frame. So the only clue would have been the shot clock -- the rest of the game apparently was mostly the same scene.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:01 PM   #60
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I was thinking, "Man! Jane Fonda can still chew the scenery when she wants to!". That was such an excellent performance!
And that DRESS!
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