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Old 08-24-2013, 09:09 AM   #31
randyb359
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I'll be paying $700 for my next cell phone. If I only pay $200 I'll be forced onto Verizons newer plans. So my monthly price will almost double over what I currently pay for unlimited data.
So even after paying $700 for the cell phone, over two years I will have paid over $1k less than if I got the deal for the $200 cell phone. So in the long run, like lifetime on a TiVo, it's better for me to pay the $700 for the cell phone up front.
you can keep your current plan except your unlimited data will become 2GB
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:12 AM   #32
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This is another reason to always buy lifetime. With lifetime you can almost always recoup all/most of the service cost and there is no contract so you can sell whenever you want.

You should ask them if they'll give you a deal on lifetime for the Premiere if you buy a new Roamio. If they do you can turn around and sell the Premiere for at least $400 and recoup the cost.
Yeah, that should work. I can't even give the darned thing to friends and relatives, telling them that the cost of the service is covered until Feb., 2014, after which they would have to assume cost of monthly service. In this area, they have antennas with rotors, receiving HD signals free. They won't subscribe to cable either. TiVo is not real useful for this type of reception since you can record only those programs being received in the current direction of the antenna. Would need two (or more, in some cases) antennas to record more than one program at a time. I haven't had good experiences trying to buy or sell anything second-hand, locally or on auction websites. I am certainly not going to give TiVo any more money than I am now committed to. Really glad I didn't purchase a Roamio on the assumption that I could transfer my current service to the new box.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:20 AM   #33
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This is a common complaint every time TiVo launches a new box.

There is absolutely no reason TiVo should allow anyone to cancel a contract, especially if the hardware subsidy on the box hasn't been recovered yet.

Not sure why the OP thinks TiVo should operate any differently than most other businesses.
I didn't ask them to "cancel" my original contract, just move it to the new equipment and guarantee themselves another year of service payments from me, just like the cell phone companies do, mentioned in a previous post. But I digress!
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:25 AM   #34
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I'll be paying $700 for my next cell phone. If I only pay $200 I'll be forced onto Verizons newer plans. So my monthly price will almost double over what I currently pay for unlimited data.
So even after paying $700 for the cell phone, over two years I will have paid over $1k less than if I got the deal for the $200 cell phone. So in the long run, like lifetime on a TiVo, it's better for me to pay the $700 for the cell phone up front.
Am also with Verizon, and for some reason, they have never forced me into a "newer" plan. I guess I am "grandfathered" somehow into the same family plan that I have had for years. Even with three of us using the plan, we have never even approached the 2GB mark. I honestly have never checked to see what I am actually allotted since I have never been charged for extra data, even with exchanging photos and occasional texts. Now that I think of it, I believe I do pay ($5?) for unlimited texting.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #35
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I will now "ride out" my contractual obligation to TiVo, (cheaper than the termination fee) and then I'll be "gone".
<snip>
The Roamio, with its enhanced capabilities, would have covered our needs for many years to come. Won't happen now!
So after you "ride out your contract" and leave TiVo, which product will you use to cover your family's needs?

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Also, as I stated before, I have "gotten out" of cell phone contracts when I upgraded my equipment before the contract ended. They just start the clock over with the new equipment, guaranteeing them another two years of contractual service.
Interestingly, AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile don't allow that anymore.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:41 AM   #36
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Am also with Verizon, and for some reason, they have never forced me into a "newer" plan. I guess I am "grandfathered" somehow into the same family plan that I have had for years.
Just like with TiVo, Verizon picks the things they want to be hard-asses about.

Verizon customers with grandfathered "unlimited data" plans can't buy new phones at the subsidized rates ($199) without having to sign a new contract that causes them to lose the unlimited data.

Meanwhile, Verizon doesn't appear to blink an eye with other grandfathered plans.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:51 AM   #37
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So after you "ride out your contract" and leave TiVo, which product will you use to cover your family's needs?

Interestingly, AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile don't allow that anymore.
The good thing is that I now have 6 months to prepare for that. What did I do before I purchased the TiVo? I had a DVD writer connected to my signal which recorded (had its own tuner) to a DVD-RW. It could even do timed recording. Gets me only one program while I watch another. I also built a "DVR" years ago from an old PC which I had kept as a spare. It already had a graphics card which included a TV tuner (since I had been doing some video editing on it). I added another (VERY LARGE in those days!) hard drive and recorded some live shows just to prove it could be done. The PC finally "died" and I didn't build another DVR. We could even coordinate with a neighbor who also uses the DVD writer scenario where he would record one show and we another, then swap discs. I know there are downsides to all of these, but they are all basically free of monthly service charges. I didn't find any of these scenarios that inconvenient. Our needs are not significant enough for this to be an issue for us. The Roamio would have been a good replacement for the Premier for the rare occasion when we want to record more than two shows simultaneously, or watch a 3rd while recording two. Regarding the cell phone contract renewal, thanks for the "heads-up" on this. Verizon allowed it the last time we got new phones. I think she had to get a "supervisor" to override something in their system, but they did accommodate us. May have something to do with the fact that we have been Verizon customers way before it was Verizon (Bell Atlantic Mobile), I think the mid 1990's, maybe earlier, don't remember.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #38
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I didn't ask them to "cancel" my original contract, just move it to the new equipment and guarantee themselves another year of service payments from me, just like the cell phone companies do, mentioned in a previous post. But I digress!
I understand. But cell phone companies don't allow you to do that on subsidized phones, only unsubsidized ones. In your case with TiVo, both your existing box and the box you would like to "transfer" have hardware subsidies.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #39
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The way it works is TiVo sells you the hardware at a loss assuming they'll make the money back by charging you $15/mo for a minimum of 1 year. If they allowed you to transfer that contract to a new TiVo before the 1 year was up then they will have lost money on that hardware.

How much is the early termination fee? You might be able to sell the used TiVo for enough to recoup it.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:54 PM   #40
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I understand. But cell phone companies don't allow you to do that on subsidized phones, only unsubsidized ones. In your case with TiVo, both your existing box and the box you would like to "transfer" have hardware subsidies.
I don't believe I have ever had an "unsubsidized" cell phone. I always got a "deal" on one with a 2-yr contract, and have never had trouble upgrading before the end of the contract. Maybe I will the next time; we'll see!

I just finished mowing my lawn, where I frequently do my most creative thinking. It just occurred to me that TiVo could have made this a win-win situation for itself and its customers by allowing purchase of the Roamio box, and in my case, offering me a contract for 1.5 years of service. In other words, I continue to pay the monthly fee for one box (all I need and will accept) until I have paid the "hardware subsidy" on the Premier. At the end of six months, I begin to fulfill my obligation for the 1-yr service contract on the Roamio. I know that there is at least one TiVo shill posting to this thread. You might kick this idea "upstairs" to see if it doesn't make good business sense for customer loyalty and retention. You can even present it as your own idea; I'll never know or care!

Also, while mowing, it just occurred to me that I have several other options when I dispense with the Premier box. I have several VCR's sitting around, all of which worked the last time I tested them. I can plug them into the coax outlets scattered around my house and record a different show on each one. Viewing fidelity won't be great, but the programs will be watcheable, and I can still fast forward through the commercials.

Lastly, I forgot that my wife's new Windows 8 all-in-one PC has a TV tuner built in and comes with a remote to control it. I hadn't set it up, but will now. It has a nice 23" HD monitor, so watching TV shows on it won't be bad at all. Between this, the VCR's, and DVD writer, I think I can cover everything we would ever want to watch. In the rare event we wanted to archive something, we could do so on either the DVD or VCR without requiring hard drive space on a DVR. Once I go to the trouble of setting all of this up, I will no longer have any interest in a TiVo of any design!
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:29 PM   #41
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The way it works is TiVo sells you the hardware at a loss assuming they'll make the money back by charging you $15/mo for a minimum of 1 year. If they allowed you to transfer that contract to a new TiVo before the 1 year was up then they will have lost money on that hardware.

How much is the early termination fee? You might be able to sell the used TiVo for enough to recoup it.
I was told early termination fee is $22/mo. x 6 months. Used Premier boxes are listed high on auction websites, but don't bring much in the end. As I posted earlier, I have had enough bad experiences buying and selling used items, I won't do it anymore.
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #42
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Before US carriers figured out people wanted the latest tech gadgets (and frankly I'm not all that sure even today that anybody but AT&T has really figured that out), I always would buy my phones from expansys in the UK and import them. Starting back in the good days of OmniPoint -- before VoiceStream -- before T-Mobile. When international roaming was not only affordable but downright cheap.
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:15 AM   #43
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Do you really use that much data? I barely use a few hundred MB a month on mine, out of 2GB I'm allotted.
It really depends. Some months I might only use 2GB to 3GB and some months I might use 12GB or more. For instance this is a high month because I've been working late alot and have been streaming alot of music which gets my data usage up.
My phone was streaming over 15 hours today from Amazon and Pandora.
I also rarely do anything over Wi-Fi. I typically download everything over the cellular network.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:09 AM   #44
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Interestingly, AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile don't allow that anymore.
Nor Sprint. As far as I know, no carrier ever allowed that. If you want out of a contract, you pay a hefty fee. Would be the same with TiVo if you had a subsidized DVR. Often they will let you upgrade a little early as a bonus to keep you locked in, though.

I do wish the FTC would end misleading pricing advertising. Smart phones do not have and never have costed $50 or $200... those are DOWN PAYMENTS and should be clearly listed as such on all marketing materials. Same thing should go for what TiVo was doing.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:20 AM   #45
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I disagree here. I think Tivo is making a huge mistake not upgrading alot of premiere owners... quite frankly they should allow anyone under contract on a premiere to purchase a roamio and restart there 1 year commitment. with the exception of the few fanatics here.. they will lose alot of customers not happy with the premieres relative performance..

even more so from people who just purchased premieres.. Direct TV subsidizes there boxes also.. but they dont stop you from buying the latest buy and just restarting your commitment
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:44 AM   #46
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Interestingly, AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile don't allow that anymore.
Verizon typically offers a 6 month early upgrade, i.e. after 18 months on contract, the next phone can be ordered, and 2 yr cycle starts again.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:21 AM   #47
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Nor Sprint. As far as I know, no carrier ever allowed that. If you want out of a contract, you pay a hefty fee. Would be the same with TiVo if you had a subsidized DVR. Often they will let you upgrade a little early as a bonus to keep you locked in, though.
Sorry, was referring to an "early upgrade", where they let you sign a new contract when you're towards the end of an existing contract. Like what JoeTaxpayer mentions in the post above.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #48
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Verizon typically offers a 6 month early upgrade, i.e. after 18 months on contract, the next phone can be ordered, and 2 yr cycle starts again.
They stopped doing this

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Old 08-25-2013, 10:32 AM   #49
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get them to add lifetime for 199 on your premier, and than sell the box.
Hey I am interested. Is this something TiVo is doing now? Any tricks? Thanks
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:49 AM   #50
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No matter what incentives you may decide to offer to encourage adoption of a new product, the one thing you do first is take advantage of everyone willing to pay full price to get it now. It would be stupid for TiVo to offer anything special on the Roamio's for at least a month or two, if not longer. You don't give something away someone is willing to pay for if you don't have to.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:27 AM   #51
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TiVo is obviously not too anxious to encourage existing TiVo owners to “upgrade” to a Roamio! I attempted to do so today, but they won’t “cancel” my old service contract (goes to 2/2014) and start a new service contract on the Roamio.!
You are trying to get out of your last agreement without paying, why would they expect that you will honor the new one? Frankly i'm not sure why you feel that your such a special customer that you don't have to follow the same rules everyone else does. If this upsets you this much, and you really want to screw around with vcr's I'd say your best bet is to part ways. TiVo isn't for everybody. BTW $15 x 6 months remaining is $90. Just sayin.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:30 AM   #52
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No matter what incentives you may decide to offer to encourage adoption of a new product, the one thing you do first is take advantage of everyone willing to pay full price to get it now. It would be stupid for TiVo to offer anything special on the Roamio's for at least a month or two, if not longer. You don't give something away someone is willing to pay for if you don't have to.
I agree with this.

I expect all of us buying now are paying more than we will have too in a few months, my guess is at least $100 more for the base Roamio with lifetime (my guess - $600+/- now vs $500+/- by Christmas). I decided buying now was worth it to me.

Expecting TiVo to give you a special deal on these now is just foolish.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:07 AM   #53
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Expecting TiVo to give you a special deal on these now is just foolish.
But also based off history since every new series except maybe the series 2 has had an upgrade offer at launch.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:00 AM   #54
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But also based off history since every new series except maybe the series 2 has had an upgrade offer at launch.
Are you sure?

I believe the TiVo HD wasn't discounted at all until almost 12 months in. I bought mine about 1 year in when they offered it at $100 off which I believe was the first deal/offer I had. Just as a side note there was also no lifetime offered for the first year of the TiVo HD either, when I ordered it lifetime wasn't available by the time it was delivered they were offering it again so I spent $500 (plus sales tax) for a TiVo HD with lifetime.

For the Premiere I believe the upgrade offers started pretty fast (I bought mine about 9 months in), but we all know why TiVo had to do that. The Premiere with lifetime deals where $500+/- and the Roamio with MSD Lifetime is $600+/- now so they may have the deals already baked in.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:10 AM   #55
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Are you sure?

I believe the TiVo HD wasn't discounted at all until almost 12 months in. I bought mine about 1 year in when they offered it at $100 off which I believe was the first deal/offer I had. Just as a side note there was also no lifetime offered for the first year of the TiVo HD either, when I ordered it lifetime wasn't available by the time it was delivered they were offering it again so I spent $500 (plus sales tax) for a TiVo HD with lifetime.

For the Premiere I believe the upgrade offers started pretty fast (I bought mine about 9 months in), but we all know why TiVo had to do that. The Premiere with lifetime deals where $500+/- and the Roamio with MSD Lifetime is $600+/- now so they may have the deals already baked in.
I missed the TiVo HD and Series 3 launch, but I believe those had the $199 lifetime transfer option. I remember people comparing it to the Premiere since the Premiere wasn't the transfer. Maybe it wasn't at launch then, but I swear people said it was.

The Premiere launched with the upgrade offer, but you had to buy direct from TiVo. I preordered both of my XLs this way. They offered $199 lifetime upgrade with eligible box. You got to keep lifetime on your old TiVo also.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:27 AM   #56
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Well, this is the first box in a while with so much hype and product love from media outlets. No need to discount to get the early adopters/fast followers to buy, as was necessary with other launches.

Hmm, does Apple provide discounts on new launches? Not a bad pricing model to follow if your product is popular.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:12 PM   #57
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I think that TiVo is worse that cell carriers and phone manufacturers, because is both at the same time.

I got a Tivo Elite at March 2012 because I need the 4 decoders because 2 are not enough at this recording series style life, I purchase the extended warranty and lifetime subscription. So a few month after they decide change the name from Elite to Premiere 4XL, well suppose only a faceplate name change but my Elite was depreciated instantly.

Now the new line coming more than a year after and I welcome the 6 decoders inside and new improvements in the User Interface, the Netflix & YouTube fix (that never work on my Premiere 4 series), but I cannot accept that the old Tivo 4 series cannot gets the updates right away and we'll wait unknown term to get some new version.

By example Apple is working in the iOS7 and an old phone like iPhone 4 can be updated to this new version maybe not all the features but the most at the same day will be released to the new phones 5S. Tivo is making obsoletes our DVRs and pushing to buy a new hardware and a lifetime service with a big disadvantage to their customers.

In the AT&T case I can upgrade my phone with the same subsidy price after certain time and get an extension of contract (such a lifetime service pay) but I don't pay the full price at the beginning of the contract.

I got a Tivo Mini to replace a Tivo Premiere at my Kids Room, at first I thinked get a Lifetime Service ($150) on it but maybe 2 years service was not enough time to get a new model coming. Today TiVo with the Roamio Series make think the nonsense of pay a lifetime service when you will get in less of 2 years a new model with more features, with not upgrade path, and the same cost of purchase a new box and new lifetime service to the loyal customers.

So meantime TiVo realizes that the Roamio would not sells as good it expects and makes me an offer to the Black Friday or Christmas, I got a 1TB DVR Expander on Ebay to my old Elite and save my money to purchase the new PS4 that will play better Netflix and YouTube streams that the old Tivo system.

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Old 08-26-2013, 12:19 PM   #58
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I think Tivo could easily offer the original poster a compromise. Why not give him a new Roamio with a one-year commitment plus the remaining on the old unit (18 mos.) instead of the standard one year? Maybe even require return of the original equipment (a TRUE upgrade).

Maybe their software cannot handle it, but I would think they could do something to make that work.


What I do not support is what the OP was tying to do: stop the subsidy subscription in favor of the new subsidy subscription with no penalty. As has been pointed out repeatedly, this is a definite loser for Tivo. If they constantly did this, they would go under fast.

"lose money on every sale but make it up in volume"
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:20 PM   #59
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I see walmart is selling them, but they are going fast.

http://www.walmart.com/search/search...h_constraint=0
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:48 PM   #60
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The sell-out nature of this initial release is just going to prove that Tivo, at this time, has no incentive to offer special upgrades. Either they have TONS of new customers who have been waiting for a Tivo DVR solution, or have TONS of older generation customers who have wanted a new HD box.

Great for Tivo, bad for me to have to wait to upgrade until (hopefully) the price drops after the holidays!
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