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Old 08-21-2013, 01:41 AM   #1
cyberbeach
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So what's my strategic move?

I have 4 XL4's: 2 bought October 2012, 1 in January 2013, and one July 2013 that can be returned up until August 31st to Amazon.

I have 2 streams I bought in January 2013.

Basically, 2 XL4's and a Stream are in each of two different apartments.

None have Lifetime. All have extended warranties. One Stream is still in the box it came in, the other is in service.

I also have 2 HD's disconnected in the corner. One has a bad mobo and no drive, the other is good. They both have lifetime but are out of extended warranty (they are 2010's).

Let's say I wanted to have 4 Roamio Pro's. I could sell 3 of XL4's on eBay, return 1 to Amazon, sell both Stream's on eBay, get rid of the two HD's (the good and the bad one's).

What are the moves? Can I do some kind of move of the old HD Lifetime's to the XL4's.

Option 1: Now: Return the newest XL4, sell the Streams on eBay, buy 1 Roamio Pro, 2: Later: then wait for improved pricing on the Roamio Pro after Thanksgiving maybe to buy 3 more Roamio Pro's and sell 3 XL4's on eBay.

Option 2: ???
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:51 AM   #2
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No way to move the lifetime from the HD units. If the one actually has a dead mobo, and not just a dead power supply, then it's pretty much trash. You might be able to find some hard core modder to take it to try and fix, but that's a big maybe. The other one should go for about $250.

Do you really need 4 Roamio Pros? You said you have 4 XL4s. The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners instead of 4, so even if you only bought 3 you'd still end up with 2 more tuners and an extra 1TB of space then you have now.

If you're using any of these to simply extend into another room, and don't actually need all the tuners, then you should look at getting some Minis instead. They are only about $85 on Amazon and lifetime service is only $150.

Maybe if you laid out your exact needs, rather then what you have, we might be able to offer a better suggestion.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeach View Post
I have 4 XL4's: 2 bought October 2012, 1 in January 2013, and one July 2013 that can be returned up until August 31st to Amazon.

I have 2 streams I bought in January 2013.

Basically, 2 XL4's and a Stream are in each of two different apartments.

None have Lifetime. All have extended warranties. One Stream is still in the box it came in, the other is in service.

I also have 2 HD's disconnected in the corner. One has a bad mobo and no drive, the other is good. They both have lifetime but are out of extended warranty (they are 2010's).

Let's say I wanted to have 4 Roamio Pro's. I could sell 3 of XL4's on eBay, return 1 to Amazon, sell both Stream's on eBay, get rid of the two HD's (the good and the bad one's).

What are the moves? Can I do some kind of move of the old HD Lifetime's to the XL4's.

Option 1: Now: Return the newest XL4, sell the Streams on eBay, buy 1 Roamio Pro, 2: Later: then wait for improved pricing on the Roamio Pro after Thanksgiving maybe to buy 3 more Roamio Pro's and sell 3 XL4's on eBay.

Option 2: ???
What kind of dead is that HD motherboard?

Any chance the cable tuner module is still good?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:34 PM   #4
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What kind of dead is that HD motherboard?

Any chance the cable tuner module is still good?
Watched live & recorded shows one evening no problem. In the morning, the green light was flashing and it refused to boot.

Tivo offered to replace it with the current sale-price XL4 and a 100 off a new Lifetime sub. The CSR was super-annoyed with me for some unknown reason right from the start so he wasn't going to give me any breaks. So I pulled the drive and put it in my other non-working HD which had a bad drive to create one working HD ("Flight of the Phoenix" style).

So that HD for sure has a green-flashing light on power being connected, and no hard drive because I cannibalized it for the other HD. I did put all the screws back and blew out a lot of the dust
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:52 PM   #5
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Do you really need 4 Roamio Pros? You said you have 4 XL4s. The Roamio Pro has 6 tuners instead of 4, so even if you only bought 3 you'd still end up with 2 more tuners and an extra 1TB of space then you have now.
The slowness of the interface on the XL4's is surprising and annoying.

The ability to stream to offsite devices will be great when it comes, but I already have two Tivo streams (one at each location) so maybe that's not a reason to switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
If you're using any of these to simply extend into another room, and don't actually need all the tuners, then you should look at getting some Minis instead. They are only about $85 on Amazon and lifetime service is only $150.
If I was starting today from scratch, I could have one Roamio Pro and one Mini for each location. But then I'd have to deal with the speed of the Mini interface...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Maybe if you laid out your exact needs, rather then what you have, we might be able to offer a better suggestion.
You're right. Let's deal with one location: LR + 2 BRs. The LR has XL4 and Stream, one BR has XL4, and one BR has nothing but would like to put a screen in there. A consolidated single Now Playing would be great. So I could have 1 Roamio Pro and two minis. I do have a concern of whether the Mini interface is as slow as the XL4, and how long it takes for a show to start streaming to a Mini from a Roamio Pro. The place is all wired with Ethernet.

My guess is that the Mini + Roamio is not all there yet in terms of working just like a local Roamio. Before going further, any info or speculation on that part of the equation?
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by cyberbeach View Post
If I was starting today from scratch, I could have one Roamio Pro and one Mini for each location. But then I'd have to deal with the speed of the Mini interface...
The Minis are fast. Way faster then the Premiere. In fact at one point I considered putting a Mini on top of my XL4 just to use it as a front end because it's so much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeach View Post
You're right. Let's deal with one location: LR + 2 BRs. The LR has XL4 and Stream, one BR has XL4, and one BR has nothing but would like to put a screen in there. A consolidated single Now Playing would be great. So I could have 1 Roamio Pro and two minis. I do have a concern of whether the Mini interface is as slow as the XL4, and how long it takes for a show to start streaming to a Mini from a Roamio Pro. The place is all wired with Ethernet.

My guess is that the Mini + Roamio is not all there yet in terms of working just like a local Roamio. Before going further, any info or speculation on that part of the equation?
Again the Mini is fast. There is a very slight lag from when you press play to when it starts streaming, but it's not bad at all. And as I said the UI is significantly faster then the Premiere.

The Mini is built on the same family of chip that's in the Roamio. So not only is it fast it should get all the same improvements going forward as the Roamio.

I would definitely get a single 6 tuner Roamio and 2 Minis if I were you.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by cyberbeach View Post
My guess is that the Mini + Roamio is not all there yet in terms of working just like a local Roamio. Before going further, any info or speculation on that part of the equation?
I don't have a Mini, but I have heard it is pretty fast... Is your experience different? It is already running the most modern chipset, so I would not expect it to be updated anytime soon.

Just like a local Romio:
-Well, DTA is supposed to be available on the Roamio line so, it should feel like a local Roamio. (Streaming from another)
-They already slipped and had the New Netflix client running on the Mini (and quickly removed it) so the app platform should be just about ready.
-On the possitive side, you would get consolidated Now Playing list with a single Roamio as opposed to multiple units.
-And of course the cost difference would be significant ($250 vs $1100 with lifetime service)
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
The Minis are fast. Way faster then the Premiere. In fact at one point I considered putting a Mini on top of my XL4 just to use it as a front end because it's so much faster.

The Mini is built on the same family of chip that's in the Roamio. So not only is it fast it should get all the same improvements going forward as the Roamio.

I would definitely get a single 6 tuner Roamio and 2 Minis if I were you.
Thanks!

So it sounds like the perfect setup at location 1 would be:

LR Roamio Pro
BR1 Mini
BR2 Mini

To get there:


Sell Oct 2012 XL4 on eBay + $ 250 ?
Sell Jan 2013 Stream on eBay + $ 50 ?
Sell HD with Lifetime on eBay + $ 250 (set)
Return Jul 2013 XL4 to Amazon + $ 312
Buy Roamio Pro from Amazon or Tivo or WK - $ 549
Buy 2 Mini's on Amazon - $ 180


So net +100 not counting that I have to go dig out the boxes from storage or if I can't find them, buy packing materials, pack everything up, and ship (for the eBay sales).
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:58 PM   #9
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Don't forget about service. Lifetime for the Roamio would be $400, since you'd get the MSD discount, and lifetime for the Minis will be $150. If you pay monthly then you'll pay $15/mo for the Roamio and $6/mo each for the Minis.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:25 PM   #10
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Don't forget about service. Lifetime for the Roamio would be $400, since you'd get the MSD discount, and lifetime for the Minis will be $150. If you pay monthly then you'll pay $15/mo for the Roamio and $6/mo each for the Minis.
I have stopped buying Lifetime. On paper, Lifetime is a free 3rd year, but you have to pay that today. So you take the risk of bankruptcy, dramatic lowering of prices, some new unit with new functionality so awesome that the old units lose resale value, competition beating them, cable-co.s giving in and licensing Tivo s/w and renting the units for $5-10 with no purchase requirement, breakdown on month 37.

I also think Tivo has demonstrated that they sometimes give the long-term loyal user-base a break, and sometimes they don't, which adds up to: they can't be counted on to give you a break. I'm not on fire about this, it's just reality.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:31 PM   #11
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Roamio Pro on order from Weaknees (they had it in stock, Amazon didn't). 2 Mini's on order from Amazon (12% less). XL4 return label printed (Amazon). Hopefully I'll have the Roamio set up, cable card in, dreaded phone call to FIOS to get HBO working completed (have had to call Verizon every single time to get HBO to work).
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:48 PM   #12
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Lifetime increases resale value. After 3-4 years a lifetime TiVo is typically worth close to the current cost of the lifetime subscription, while a non-lifetime unit is basically worthless.

CableCARDs must be paired to the host device for encrypted channels to work properly. On FIOS they only encrypt HBO so that's why that's the only channel that doesn't work. On other cable systems they encrypt everything so you can't use the TiVo at all until the CableCARD is paired.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:09 PM   #13
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Yes, resale value.. Heck, I'm thinking I *might* be able to about break even on my lifetime P4 + Tivo Stream + lifetime TivoHD to get the lower 6 tuner Roamio with lifetime.

Would save me one cablecard payment (relatively unimportant), but would be ONE Tivo to 'manage' (currently I use 2, one on top of the other, and swap between them fairly often). I realize I lose out on the ability to use one of the Tivos on a second TV if I get one.. but I would probably get a Mini then.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #14
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System 4s are slow. Ok, I agree. That being said, I am not going to replace perfectly functional equipment with the upgrade. One reason is cost. They charge $200 more for lifetime than they used to. There is no special deal on equipment for present subscribers. With the addition of my tivo stream and slingbox my 2 premiers give me 95% of the capability of the new units without spending $1000-$1200. That being said Tivo has one of the poorest warranties in the consumer electronics industry. Three months? Give me a break....almost everyone else gives you a year on a new unit. Their extended warranty only replaces the unit once. I had one bad premier that required 3 replacement boxes before it worked right. They didn't want to give me the third one. So until my units fail I am sticking to the System 4. Maybe by that time, Verizon will have a decent vendor DVR.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:43 PM   #15
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With the addition of my tivo stream and slingbox my 2 premiers give me 95% of the capability of the new units without spending $1000-$1200.
Not really. Having all your SPs consolidated on a single unit is a LOT more convenient. And the TiVo Stream works way better then a Slingbox for in home streaming (out of the house streaming isn't available yet on Stream). It's faster to select a program and play it and the trick play controls work instantly rather then having that annoying lag.

Also, unless one of those those two Premieres is a 4 tuner, you'll get 2 more tuners. And you'll be able to return one of your CableCARDs and save on that monthly fee. (and perhaps an outlet fee if your cable company has those)

As for cost... With lifetime those two Premiere units are worth about $400/ea. You can get a Roamio Plus for $400 + $400 for lifetime and basically break even.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:31 PM   #16
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Tons of electronics only has a 90 day warranty nowadays. I'm not defending it, just that it's "just as bad" as the rest of them.

Wait, are you saying a P4 with lifetime will go for $400? I did a bit of searching on eBay, should do some more. Seemed like S3-era were $250-ish including lifetime.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:57 AM   #17
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Lifetime increases resale value. After 3-4 years a lifetime TiVo is typically worth close to the current cost of the lifetime subscription, while a non-lifetime unit is basically worthless.

CableCARDs must be paired to the host device for encrypted channels to work properly. On FIOS they only encrypt HBO so that's why that's the only channel that doesn't work. On other cable systems they encrypt everything so you can't use the TiVo at all until the CableCARD is paired.
Dan, I had heard that FIOS encrypts all the premiums, but HBO has a special two-way validation that locks to the serial on the card.

I have seen this on one of the diagnostic screens. There's one place where if you see NO, you won't get HBO even if you get Showtime etc.
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DESIRED . 2020 Tivo 32K 96fps 3D Holodecks (Verizon-WarnerCast)
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:58 AM   #18
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Tons of electronics only has a 90 day warranty nowadays. I'm not defending it, just that it's "just as bad" as the rest of them.
A little company named Sony, for example
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DESIRED . 2020 Tivo 32K 96fps 3D Holodecks (Verizon-WarnerCast)
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:03 AM   #19
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As for cost... With lifetime those two Premiere units are worth about $400/ea. You can get a Roamio Plus for $400 + $400 for lifetime and basically break even.
Or if you have 2 Premiere XL4's (like I do), you can go from 8 tuners to 6, and 4 gigs to 3, but gain a single My Shows list by getting a Roamio Pro and a Mini.

Plus I'm getting another Mini for another bedroom that has nothing now.

I might have to add a drive to the Roamio Pro at some point, but 6 tuners is plenty. Even if all 3 "consumers" in the house were watching live streams, that still leaves 3 tuners for recording.

All hypothetical of course - my Roamio Pro shipped today, arrives Wednesday night.
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DESIRED . 2020 Tivo 32K 96fps 3D Holodecks (Verizon-WarnerCast)
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:04 AM   #20
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Dan, I had heard that FIOS encrypts all the premiums, but HBO has a special two-way validation that locks to the serial on the card.

I have seen this on one of the diagnostic screens. There's one place where if you see NO, you won't get HBO even if you get Showtime etc.
All of them are encrypted, as are most digital channels, which is why you need the CableCARD in the first place. But HBO has it's CCI bit set, which means it requires the card to be paired to the host. Most cable companies require that for all premium channels, not just HBO. And some, like Time Warner, require it for all channels.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:35 AM   #21
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Wait, are you saying a P4 with lifetime will go for $400? I did a bit of searching on eBay, should do some more. Seemed like S3-era were $250-ish including lifetime.
fwiw, my two tuner lifetime Premiere (320GB drive version) went for $375 this Sunday on Craigslist in Seattle.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:30 AM   #22
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That being said Tivo has one of the poorest warranties in the consumer electronics industry. Three months? Give me a break....almost everyone else gives you a year on a new unit.
Panasonic Blu-Ray and DVD have the same warranty - 90 days full coverage and 1 year parts.

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