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Old 08-23-2013, 06:21 PM   #391
vurbano
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Originally Posted by ppartekim View Post
Will do... I plan to doing the same as amseven11, unwrap TiVo slap in 3TB and power-on, then setup OTA...
Ditto but with a plus and no ota
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:25 PM   #392
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Uh, then why has TiVo been using AV-GP drives all this time? They are GreenPower drives as well, with an additional AV-rating. That's what the "GP" means in "AV-GP".

Don't take it the wrong way. But, as you say, you're not up to speed on this. Before the AV-GP drives fell drastically in price, everybody was using the standard GreenPower drives, without the AV rating (less those who had the extra money to spend, and wanted the AV-GP).
"GreenPower" is just WD's stupid word for a 5400RPM drive.

If you want to get really technical, the WD Red "NAS-specific" drives are also "GreenPower" because they spin around 5400.

Prior to the areal density on HDDs being as good as it is now, a 5400 RPM drive was generally a lot slower than a 7200RPM disk, so WD and other manufacturers stopped advertising that the drive was 5400RPM due to the stigma. Instead we got "Green" drives, and they would be vague about the RPMS "5900 RPM average, variable speed" BS like that.

For a DVR that is recording fat stripes of linear data at around 8-15 Mbps, 5400RPM drives are plenty.

The only real difference between the "GP" and the "AV-GP" models is the tuning of the firmware, the MTBF listed on the box, and the warranty length.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:30 PM   #393
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So, based on what has been documented here so far, a year down the road and I find I'm running low on space on my Plus, I should be able to buy a new larger drive, remove my old drive, plug both into my PC, drag and drop everything from my old HD to my new HD, plug the new one into my Tivo, go through setup, then be back to where I was with my same recorded shows and more space?
Everything that is bolded is not true. Just read what I quoted and literally skip the bolded parts to see what is true.

No drag and drop or saving your shows is possible (Yet). We are only talking about removing the existing drive, plugging in a new drive and having it automatically work. You would have to complete guided setup as if you just bought the TiVo and you would lose all your existing recordings.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:30 PM   #394
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So, based on what has been documented here so far, a year down the road and I find I'm running low on space on my Plus, I should be able to buy a new larger drive, remove my old drive, plug both into my PC, drag and drop everything from my old HD to my new HD, plug the new one into my Tivo, go through setup, then be back to where I was with my same recorded shows and more space?
I haven't seen anything posted here that indicates that is a possibility. It wouldn't work like that for a computer, why would you expect it to work for a TiVo?
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by monkeydust View Post
So, based on what has been documented here so far, a year down the road and I find I'm running low on space on my Plus, I should be able to buy a new larger drive, remove my old drive, plug both into my PC, drag and drop everything from my old HD to my new HD, plug the new one into my Tivo, go through setup, then be back to where I was with my same recorded shows and more space?
No, we don't know if that's possible yet with the new units.

The discussion thus far has been centered around the ability to remove the drive in the unit, and insert a new one, and have it work automatically - this never happened in the past with Tivos.

Since some amount of configuration / setting info is stored on the HDD, you presumably would have to walk through setup with the new drive, as though it was a brand new unit.

The "drag and drop from the old to the new" part hasn't really been looked at yet, to my knowledge. It seems like the new Series5 units have a different format on the drive entirely, so that will be something that people will have to hack away at.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:32 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by monkeydust View Post
So, based on what has been documented here so far, a year down the road and I find I'm running low on space on my Plus, I should be able to buy a new larger drive, remove my old drive, plug both into my PC, drag and drop everything from my old HD to my new HD, plug the new one into my Tivo, go through setup, then be back to where I was with my same recorded shows and more space?
No, thats not it at all. You cant just copy on a desktop with drag and drop. What is being described here is putting a blank drive in the Roamio and having it format it and load software to it. You would have to use other tools to copy from one drive to another preserving recordings. Not the topic under discussion.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:33 PM   #397
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Yeah, I was doing some speculation. Actually if the setup info is stored on the hd, you shouldn't have to go through setup again if you copy the drive contents over.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:35 PM   #398
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Someone with good organizational skills and good knowledge of the forum software needs to write a FAQ on this upgrade method similar to the old upgrade threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeydust View Post
So, based on what has been documented here so far, a year down the road and I find I'm running low on space on my Plus, I should be able to buy a new larger drive, remove my old drive, plug both into my PC, drag and drop everything from my old HD to my new HD, plug the new one into my Tivo, go through setup, then be back to where I was with my same recorded shows and more space?
Nope.

All we know for certain right now is a brand new TiVo off the shelf never setup will take a new drive and properly configure it for use. A 2TB drive is the only drive that has been tested on a base Roamio.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:35 PM   #399
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It's possible that it might be as simple as using something like gparted, but until we see the actual layout of the drive(s) and/or someone tries it, we won't know.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:05 PM   #400
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Yeah, I was doing some speculation. Actually if the setup info is stored on the hd, you shouldn't have to go through setup again if you copy the drive contents over.
But if you just copied the old drive then there is no way for it to see the extra space and actually use it. Some sort of hacking has to be done for what you're describing to be possible. Could be as simple as flipping some bits to tell the TiVo there's more space available or it could be monumentally more difficult then that. We don't really know yet.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:20 PM   #401
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If you use the WD green power saver drive do you have to enable the park feature in order to have the drive not wear itself out after a couple of months?
Already answered this same questuion, several posts back.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:30 PM   #402
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I believe they can tell once you connect your upgraded tivo to the network. At a minimum they can tell how many recording hours your new hdd provides.
True. Also, every time you connect to the TiVo service, your TiVo logs are uploaded. If you call in asking for tech support, they can see the model number of the drive (and possibly the serial number), if they look at the logs and look for that data, or stumble upon it, then may deny even providing you any tech support. It has happened, and been reported around here.

I have no idea how long you'd have to put the original drive back in before flushing out the length of time they hold onto the logs.

Once I learned how to get into the logs, it took me less than 30 seconds to spot my upgraded drive's model number. I didn't see the S/N, but there's a LOT of info in there, and if you try to take it all in, your eyes will glaze over eventually.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:40 PM   #403
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As noted above, they at least used to do that very thing.

Besides, the Roamio has built-in wireless. Didn't you know about the built-in camera? The NSA insisted.
I've seen computers with chassis intrusion detection, and it didn't even require a switch to be against the case cover. It was an onboard sensor (very unusual looking, and stood out right away as unusual) that somehow could detect if the lid was removed, perhaps magnetically...

I doubt TiVo would use such either (or any) method, since It would add to the cost of building them. I think they also know that even "tamper proof" stickers can easily be defeated with the right tools and patience. But, stickers are cheap, and an effective deterrent for the general population. So, I'm surprised they didn't keep using them...
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:44 PM   #404
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I have no idea how long you'd have to put the original drive back in before flushing out the length of time they hold onto the logs.
Even if that worked if you're savvy enough to fix the drive then you're likely to only ever use the warranty for something much more major like a dead power supply or mobo. And if that's the case the TiVo likely wont even boot the old drive to reset the logs. Kind of a catch 22.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:44 PM   #405
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"GreenPower" is just WD's stupid word for a 5400RPM drive.

If you want to get really technical, the WD Red "NAS-specific" drives are also "GreenPower" because they spin around 5400.

Prior to the areal density on HDDs being as good as it is now, a 5400 RPM drive was generally a lot slower than a 7200RPM disk, so WD and other manufacturers stopped advertising that the drive was 5400RPM due to the stigma. Instead we got "Green" drives, and they would be vague about the RPMS "5900 RPM average, variable speed" BS like that.

For a DVR that is recording fat stripes of linear data at around 8-15 Mbps, 5400RPM drives are plenty.

The only real difference between the "GP" and the "AV-GP" models is the tuning of the firmware, the MTBF listed on the box, and the warranty length.
Thanks for telling me everything I already knew. Do you feel better?
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:50 PM   #406
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Even if that worked if you're savvy enough to fix the drive then you're likely to only ever use the warranty for something much more major like a dead power supply or mobo. And if that's the case the TiVo likely wont even boot the old drive to reset the logs. Kind of a catch 22.
As stated in my prior post, if you call for SUPPORT, and their system still has entries for an upgrade drive, the can refuse TECHNICAL SUPPORT. They could even choose to not log in a bug report. Sometimes it happens, sometimes they overlook it.

I hadn't even brought up anything WARRANTY related.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:18 PM   #407
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As stated in my prior post, if you call for SUPPORT, and their system still has entries for an upgrade drive, the can refuse TECHNICAL SUPPORT. They could even choose to not log in a bug report. Sometimes it happens, sometimes they overlook it.

I hadn't even brought up anything WARRANTY related.
I was simply responding to your idea that you might be able to install the old drive, run it for a while to purge the logs, and then call for support. I was saying that if you needed support it would be likely after a major hardware failure and that plan wouldn't work because you'd never be able to boot the old drive. That's the catch 22 I was referring to.

Basically I would say that if you're upgrading the drive don't expect any warranty. And if you are going to try and game the system you should buy your extended warranty from a 3rd party, like BestBuy or Square, and not TiVo since they wouldn't know you'd opened the box. Although in that case TiVo could still refuse the service transfer, even if the box was replaced by a 3rd party warranty, because they'd still know you'd opened the case.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:20 PM   #408
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I got my second Roamio and drive today, if you guys want I can boot the tivo with the stock drive before swapping it out if that helps answer anyone's questions.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #409
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I got my second Roamio and drive today, if you guys want I can boot the tivo with the stock drive before swapping it out if that helps answer anyone's questions.
You should boot the stock drive, go through the setup and any upgrades, then remove it, insert the new drive and see what it does. It'll likely act as if it was being booted for the first time with the new drive, but that will confirm that you can upgrade later after you've been using the TiVo for a while.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:23 PM   #410
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I got my second Roamio and drive today, if you guys want I can boot the tivo with the stock drive before swapping it out if that helps answer anyone's questions.
That is the burning question everyone seems to have.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:28 PM   #411
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You should boot the stock drive, go through the setup and any upgrades, then remove it, insert the new drive and see what it does. It'll likely act as if it was being booted for the first time with the new drive, but that will confirm that you can upgrade later after you've been using the TiVo for a while.
Will do that right now, stand by.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:34 PM   #412
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Done yet?
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:36 PM   #413
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How about now?



Thanks for doing all this - you're doing great work.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:40 PM   #414
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It's going to take around 20-30 mins my guess for the factory one to go through the setup and reboots etc. Then I will power down swap drives and report back. It should be noted unlike booting with the 2 TB drive the factory one does not say "Update almost finished" on first boot.

nevermind it now says "Preparing the update... this may take up to an hour, possibly longer" which is the exact same as booting with the 2 TB drive.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:43 PM   #415
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:49 PM   #416
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I was simply responding to your idea that you might be able to install the old drive, run it for a while to purge the logs, and then call for support. I was saying that if you needed support it would be likely after a major hardware failure and that plan wouldn't work because you'd never be able to boot the old drive. That's the catch 22 I was referring to.

Basically I would say that if you're upgrading the drive don't expect any warranty. And if you are going to try and game the system you should buy your extended warranty from a 3rd party, like BestBuy or Square, and not TiVo since they wouldn't know you'd opened the box. Although in that case TiVo could still refuse the service transfer, even if the box was replaced by a 3rd party warranty, because they'd still know you'd opened the case.
OK, that makes it clear now. I thought you misunderstood what I was saying.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:56 PM   #417
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I got my second Roamio and drive today, if you guys want I can boot the tivo with the stock drive before swapping it out if that helps answer anyone's questions.
The DVRBARS author is looking for a before and after image of the stock drive. It might be blank, it might not be. It might get changed in interesting ways, that may help development of a 4TB DIY upgrade, it may not.

There's only one way to know. That's to see if that drive is blank, or has something on it, and analyze before & after changes.

Contact ggieseke if you'd like to do that. I don't think we can learn much by just having you pop the stock drive in. Only if it will allow it, and that's about all. Then, you can't do a before & after comparison.

EDIT: NEVER MIND, TOO LATE. The masses have voted for getting our answers one at a time I guess.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:57 PM   #418
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It's going to take around 20-30 mins my guess for the factory one to go through the setup and reboots etc. Then I will power down swap drives and report back. It should be noted unlike booting with the 2 TB drive the factory one does not say "Update almost finished" on first boot.

nevermind it now says "Preparing the update... this may take up to an hour, possibly longer" which is the exact same as booting with the 2 TB drive.
Too late now, but it would have been interesting to know if the drive had anything on it prior to the initial power up.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:00 PM   #419
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You should boot the stock drive, go through the setup and any upgrades, then remove it, insert the new drive and see what it does. It'll likely act as if it was being booted for the first time with the new drive, but that will confirm that you can upgrade later after you've been using the TiVo for a while.
If you're up for it, (these are easy) would you mind also creating at least one season pass, add or remove at least one channel, toggle suggestions to the opposite of default, maybe hide one of the video sources, and mess with with just about any setting you have the patience for, to see which, if any are retained?
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #420
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Almost done setting up stock roamio, its installing the software update then I should be good to go with the drive swap.
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