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Old 08-23-2013, 01:00 PM   #331
jmpage2
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
He doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything more than posting and reposting what he already did, while waiting for his cable service and cablecard. I even suggested making a paperclip antenna, and setting it to OTA only, to test out it's full-functionality, but no responses on the matter. I think we'll have to wait for somebody who is willing to try what MANY keep asking and/or asking for.
Maybe you should re-read what you just wrote, because it seems that you are irritated that someone who has provided very valuable information isn't willing to run your experiments for you.

If it's so damn important to you then consider offering a Paypal reward to cover someones time and risk to their unit to start doing these things and posting them here. Otherwise, just try patience.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #332
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Maybe you should re-read what you just wrote, because it seems that you are irritated that someone who has provided very valuable information isn't willing to run your experiments for you.

If it's so damn important to you then consider offering a Paypal reward to cover someones time and risk to their unit to start doing these things and posting them here. Otherwise, just try patience.
Amen Brutha!
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:07 PM   #333
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Interesting. I didn't have to re-pair my Cox Omaha CC after doing my drive upgrade.
I'm in Las Vegas. Cox here doesn't do as most other Cox markets do.

In hindsight, I guess I should have included this in my original post.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:10 PM   #334
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If you take a cable card that is paired to a working TiVo, power down the TiVo, remove the cable and place it in another TiVo (or TV cable card slot) turn on the power, don't try to pair the card then power off the unit and put the card back into the original TiVo you will find that the data has changed and the card must be re-paired. This is how the Comcast system works for my area.
I am aware that you can't move the cards around. I'm talking about the same box, with the same card, and only the hard drive S/N changes.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:13 PM   #335
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I'm not sure I buy everything they say though. If you look at the stuff they told Dave Zatz they claimed that they were going to be selling upgrade kits. But why would you be selling upgrade kits if all you need is a drive and the right screwdriver bit? So I'm not sure I'm believing what they say.
It's still a "kit" if it includes the drive and the screw driver.

And as long as their "kits" aren't too expensive people might still buy them. Those torx screw drivers aren't always easy to find locally. I remember having a bear of a time finding one when I did a drive replacement on a S2 years ago. I think I ended up buying a complete set from Lowes for like $20. So if someone can get the drive and the tools for a reasonable price they might still go for it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:15 PM   #336
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It's still a "kit" if it includes the drive and the screw driver.

And as long as their "kits" aren't too expensive people might still buy them. Those torx screw drivers aren't always easy to find locally. I remember having a bear of a time finding one when I did a drive replacement on a S2 years ago. I think I ended up buying a complete set from Lowes for like $20. So if someone can get the drive and the tools for a reasonable price they might still go for it.
$6.68 with free prime shipping.... but yes, you're right, some people will buy a "kit" instead.

One area where Weaknees can justify it is they offer a warranty as well as technical support. Even though to most of us this is so easy it's laughable, most of us haven't talked to my in-laws.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #337
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Maybe you should re-read what you just wrote, because it seems that you are irritated that someone who has provided very valuable information isn't willing to run your experiments for you.

If it's so damn important to you then consider offering a Paypal reward to cover someones time and risk to their unit to start doing these things and posting them here. Otherwise, just try patience.
I'm not the only one who's asking the same questions, and hoping for some answers. Others have also asked for more from the person who gave us this valuable info.

I'm holding-off on buying until I get those answers, and I'm sure they WILL come, just from somebody else willing to do more. Each person that is willing to take it further to answer these questions will be the new hero/superstar. If this same person had been willing to do it, they'd be godlike for a lot longer than they will be, by only answering one question.

They answer, essentially, one question (more like an unknown). Now we know, but as in many things in life, a single answer often leads to more questions.

I'm taking the high-road, and not posting what I'd really like to finish this post with, regarding your condescending tone/remarks.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #338
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It's a kit bought from a "store", much less "scary" than buying a bare drive and hoping it works.
The assumption is that weaknees has used the type of drive they sell and that it is known to work.

Right now it appears that a 2 or 3 TB would work, but sooner or later there will be a list of drives not to use.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:23 PM   #339
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It's still a "kit" if it includes the drive and the screw driver.

And as long as their "kits" aren't too expensive people might still buy them. Those torx screw drivers aren't always easy to find locally. I remember having a bear of a time finding one when I did a drive replacement on a S2 years ago. I think I ended up buying a complete set from Lowes for like $20. So if someone can get the drive and the tools for a reasonable price they might still go for it.
Try Harbor Freight Tools. They sell a kit that includes every bit and security bit ever made, with a driver handle, for $19.99, when at full price.

Their tools generally are cheap, and break quickly if you try to use them for hard jobs, but you could upgrade TiVos (and most CE devices) for a lifetime, even with the low-quality materials they use to make them.

They have multiple retail stores in my locale. They used to be mail-order only. Since they DO offer a LIFETIME warranty for all "hand tools", having retail stores makes it less risky buying something of low-quality.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #340
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It's a kit bought from a "store", much less "scary" than buying a bare drive and hoping it works.
The assumption is that weaknees has used the type of drive they sell and that it is known to work.

Right now it appears that a 2 or 3 TB would work, but sooner or later there will be a list of drives not to use.
If Weaknees is smart they also pay a bit less for their drives than we do as they probably buy them in much larger lots.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:31 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Try Harbor Freight Tools. They sell a kit that includes every bit and security bit ever made, with a driver handle, for $19.99, when at full price.

Their tools generally are cheap, and break quickly if you try to use them for hard jobs, but you could upgrade TiVos (and most CE devices) for a lifetime, even with the low-quality materials they use to make them.

They have multiple retail stores in my locale. They used to be mail-order only. Since they DO offer a LIFETIME warranty for all "hand tools", having retail stores makes it less risky buying something of low-quality.
I actually have one of those now. The handle with like 40 interchangeable bits. But at the time I was desperate and that set of 10 full torx screwdrivers was all I could find. I had a cheap one I had used on an XBox I thought would work but it was the wrong size so I had to find something quick.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #342
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Nobody (at the time you posted this) knows. I've asked the same thing, and asked that upgraders who don't boot the factory drive do a full DVRBARS backup and send it over to the author of the program to look at.

So far, nobody has even uttered a peep about doing so, or those posts. I'm still catching up on today's posts, so maybe I'll see something later.
One must also consider the following:

TiVo may be shipping blank drives with all the new Roamios so no backup could be made, that would be one cost advantage TiVo has with a self formatting drive system, no preloading of the new hard drives with any software. Just purchase the OEM blank drives and put them in the Roamio.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #343
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I actually have one of those now. The handle with like 40 interchangeable bits. But at the time I was desperate and that set of 10 full torx screwdrivers was all I could find. I had a cheap one I had used on an XBox I thought would work but it was the wrong size so I had to find something quick.
Mine has 100 pieces, which means 98 bits, an extension, and a driver.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:34 PM   #344
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One must also consider the following:

TiVo may be shipping blank drives with all the new Roamios TiVos so no backup could be made, that would be one cost advantage TiVo has with a self formatting drive system, no preloading of the new hard drives with any software. Just purchase the OEM blank drives and put them in the Roamio.
As I posted in the other thread, where you said the same thing:

True. But with a raw sector-by-sector backup, you can still copy even a blank drive (which will be a ton of zeroes).

If there is anything on there at all, a raw copy would copy that.

I'm not disagreeing with you. We just don't know what, if anything, is on a stock drive (for sure).
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:38 PM   #345
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As I posted in the other thread, where you said the same thing:

True. But with a raw sector-by-sector backup, you can still copy even a blank drive (which will be a ton of zeroes).

If there is anything on there at all, a raw copy would copy that.

I'm not disagreeing with you. We just don't know what, if anything, is on a stock drive (for sure).
Will the DVRBARS backup even work on a blank (or almost blank) drive? I think it looks for some TiVo/linux type formatting.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:40 PM   #346
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Does anyone know what brand of hard drives Weaknees is supplying with their upgraded Roamios?
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:46 PM   #347
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Will the DVRBARS backup even work on a blank (or almost blank) drive? I think it looks for some TiVo/linux type formatting.
We won't know for sure, until somebody tries it. The author of DVRBARS has requested anybody willing to do it, to try it.

If that fails, there's always JMFS, and using GNU DD_Rescue from the command line, as opposed to the guided menus. Which, again, somebody would have to try first. But, it will make a copy, even if it is a blank drive.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:52 PM   #348
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One must also consider the following:

TiVo may be shipping blank drives with all the new Roamios so no backup could be made, that would be one cost advantage TiVo has with a self formatting drive system, no preloading of the new hard drives with any software. Just purchase the OEM blank drives and put them in the Roamio.

That makes sense. That way during the model lifetime "any" off the shelf drive can be purchased and delivered in the Roamio.

By having a little less grip on the hardware side of things, it makes it cheaper for TiVo to manufacture the boxes (i.e. the price of 2 and 3 TB drivers will naturally decrease. At some point in time the smallish drive in the base model will become expensive enough that TiVo can then promote models with new and improved larger capacities)
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #349
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What would be nice are partition maps of:
  1. A stock drive before setup
  2. A stock drive after setup
  3. An upgrade drive after setup

It would also be interesting to know if a WD drive will work properly with intellipark enabled.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:29 PM   #350
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I'm sure if Dan203, the actual moderator. felt it was getting too far off, for too long, he'd say something. I don't answer to non-moderators.
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He doesn't seem to be interested in doing anything more than posting and reposting what he already did, while waiting for his cable service and cablecard. I even suggested making a paperclip antenna, and setting it to OTA only, to test out it's full-functionality, but no responses on the matter. I think we'll have to wait for somebody who is willing to try what MANY keep asking and/or asking for.
Do you ever read your posts before you post them? There's no reason not to use basic courtesy in this forum. Someone comments (correctly), in an innocuous manner, how we've drifted off-topic, and you reply "I don't answer to non-moderators". That's simply rude.

Someone posts the amazing results of a blank drive boot-up, spends a fair amount of time responding, but also makes it clear he's not willing to take a bunch of off-topic (for him) actions, such as setup for OTA when he has stated he is waiting on a cc. And you snidely comment on how "we'll have to wait for somebody who is willing to try what MANY keep asking for". Again, outright rude.

I don't put you on ignore, because I do read and value many of your posts. You have some good feedback on many topics. But may I suggest you take a less confrontational approach to some of your replies. It can't hurt.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:03 PM   #351
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The best I can tell, the OP's last post was about 10.5 hours ago. Heaven forbid he have to sleep or go to work.

I wouldn't throw him under the bus for not responding to posts or questions in this timeframe.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #352
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From what I could tell he wasnt going to mess with it anymore until cable was installed, so he might not even be looking at this thread anymore until then.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:12 PM   #353
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Do you ever read your posts before you post them? There's no reason not to use basic courtesy in this forum. Someone comments (correctly), in an innocuous manner, how we've drifted off-topic, and you reply "I don't answer to non-moderators". That's simply rude.

Someone posts the amazing results of a blank drive boot-up, spends a fair amount of time responding, but also makes it clear he's not willing to take a bunch of off-topic (for him) actions, such as setup for OTA when he has stated he is waiting on a cc. And you snidely comment on how "we'll have to wait for somebody who is willing to try what MANY keep asking for". Again, outright rude.

I don't put you on ignore, because I do read and value many of your posts. You have some good feedback on many topics. But may I suggest you take a less confrontational approach to some of your replies. It can't hurt.
Have you not seen the way I've been treated on this forum? I've even been called-out as inferior, just because I didn't join 12 years ago, and don't have a post count over 10,000. So, excuse me, if I say that my posts are nothing, compared to the truly personal attacks directed at me, that make what you are quoting NOTHING, but maybe some mildly bad ways of wording things.

I'll admit that I DID recently post a few things that were out-of-line, after looking back at them. I decided to tone it down, and even PM'd a few people to apologize, and even reached mutual understandings with them.

There is a reason I have difficulty communicating, but am very tech-minded. However, that's my personal matter, that I have to live with, so that's all the details of which I will provide.

IMNSHO, there's a lot of trolls roaming this place freely, just waiting to pounce on any opportunity to start a fight, and keep the flames well fueled. I don't know why they are allowed to even remain members here....

My sometimes poorly worded, or easily misinterpreted/misunderstood, posts pale in comparison to the havoc of the true trolls, whose posts are unmistakably flame-bait.

The ignore function gives them the freedom to say anything they want and even directly attack me, and I just don't see it, while they can still see my posts and badmouth me all they like. If ignore was more like "block users" on facebook, where neither party could see the other's posts, I'd have many ignored people in my list here.

Speaking of OT, and common courtesy, how about a PM the next time I post something you feel is somehow out of line. I still don't see it (and see no reason to edit it), unlike the other recent posts I admitted were out of line.

I think in the future, I may refrain from saying "I don't answer to non-moderators", unless I feel it is absolutely merited. I did hesitate to post that. Maybe if I hadn't you wouldn't have made your comment...

I'm not the least bit upset that you did. But a PM would've been the best way, IMHO. I have no qualms with you, sir. I'm not bothered by what you posted, and what I posted isn't an attack on you (just in case it comes across, or is perceived that way, on your end).
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 08-23-2013 at 03:22 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:25 PM   #354
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So far, nobody has even uttered a peep about doing so, or those posts. I'm still catching up on today's posts, so maybe I'll see something later.
I have been in contact with the DVRBars author about sending him a full backup of a virgin drive, but it doesn't arrive until Tues. so nothing until at least Wed.

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Old 08-23-2013, 03:35 PM   #355
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I have been in contact with the DVRBars author about sending him a full backup of a virgin drive, but it doesn't arrive until Tues. so nothing until at least Wed.

PapaArt
Excellent! Thank You!

Do you know how to use GNU DD_Rescue, or any of the other true raw sector-by-sector tools, in the event that DVRBARS can't identify/can't backup the drive?
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:39 PM   #356
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If you use the WD green power saver drive do you have to enable the park feature in order to have the drive not wear itself out after a couple of months?
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #357
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If you use the WD green power saver drive do you have to enable the park feature in order to have the drive not wear itself out after a couple of months?
Not in a TiVo, even the new ones. TiVo disables Intellipark on their drives before installing them (or orders them/receives them that way). It can cause a TiVo to hang on the boot screen after a menu-initiated "warm-boot", if enabled (due to a momentary period that the drive is released from being kept running).

A TiVo drive is always running, no matter what drive you use, so Intellipark is a useless feature in a TiVo, or any other device that makes the drive run continuously.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #358
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Will the DVRBARS backup even work on a blank (or almost blank) drive? I think it looks for some TiVo/linux type formatting.
Wow. TCF crashed because it was too busy, so I'll shorten this post.

In Full Backup mode DvrBARS could care less what's on the drive. If it was a 10TB source and all zeroes it would end up with an image of a few hundred KB that I could analyze.

This Husky torx screwdriver is what I bought at Home Depot years ago. T4-T15 for about $6.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-8-I...4502/100087664

Images welcome (hint, hint).
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:51 PM   #359
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If you use the WD green power saver drive do you have to enable the park feature in order to have the drive not wear itself out after a couple of months?
WD green drives were really never designed for the constant read/write cycle that a TiVo goes through, which is why they aren't recommended for replacement.

While I think it's unlikely it would "wear out in a few months" the drive definitely could succumb to errors more quickly and a bigger concern would be heat and noise as well as possibly running into performance limits if streaming lots of HD simultaneously.

There could be some drive profile changes that could be made to improve it, but I've only used WD green as data backup drives for the past couple of years so I'm not up to speed on what might be possible.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:55 PM   #360
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Wow. TCF crashed because it was too busy, so I'll shorten this post.

In Full Backup mode DvrBARS could care less what's on the drive. If it was a 10TB source and all zeroes it would end up with an image of a few hundred KB that I could analyze.

This Husky torx screwdriver is what I bought at Home Depot years ago. T4-T15 for about $6.

Images welcome (hint, hint).
Good to know. I wasn't aware that full backup mode didn't care.

Do you still need to tell it to scan (opposed to skip, which is set by default) the alternate root partition, then? I know the answer, but figured it may benefit others to hear it from you.
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