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Old 08-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #151
Am_I_Evil
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Question for the OP:
Did you plug in and boot up at all before the upgrade or was the upgrade the very first boot for the TiVo?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I would advise everyone to calm down a bit until we get confirmation that:

a. This works as intended w/no problems.

b. It works on the plus.

It beggars belief that TiVo would think they could get away with this, but I suppose they have done stranger things. At the very least, I suspect they will be more aggressive in enforcing the "cracking the case voids the warranty" rule.

Looking at weaKnees, if the only difference between the Plus and the Pro is drive size, I am at a loss to understand why anyone would pay $599 for a Pro when you can get a Plus with a 3TB drive for $569.

In any case, I still see a need for DIY tools for doing after use upgrades and failing drive replacements. Of course if it automatically formats a drive if it senses a change in hd s/n, then...never mind.

As to what is in the on board flash - it could be just a stub - enough to format the drive and d/l and install the full O/S.
It's not uncommon at all, All directv DVR's as well as U-verse DVR's allow you to change out the hard drive with no problems. Even on cable DVR's you can swap out the drive and the motherboard will format and prepare the drive for use. Normally though there are limitations (Cable 1 TB, Directv 2TB or 3TB with a Genie, 1TB with U-Verse). If anything this is Tivo actually getting on par with other manufacturers.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:06 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Am_I_Evil View Post
Question for the OP:
Did you plug in and boot up at all before the upgrade or was the upgrade the very first boot for the TiVo?
I upgraded it before ever booting it.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:06 PM   #154
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As I said in another thread this was probably added for their MSO partners. Competing MSO DVRs have this same feature. It makes it easy for the MSO to repair a broken unit by simply popping in a new drive and redeploying the unit. That's probably why they went with the external power brick on the Basic too. All about ease of maintenance for their MSO partners.
But, wouldn't TiVo KNOW what DVRs were going to their MSO partners, as well as what went to retail channels, and be able to make it where (as somebody else mentioned) the drive can only yield what they allow, and give the MSOs what they want, and nip retail units in the bud?

Essentially, at boot-up, the TSN goes to TiVo, they know if it's MSO or retail, and the allowed image size is put onto the drive. That would've been their ticket out of this.

On the other hand, how many warranties might they choose not to honor, even if you put the original drive back in... They have allowed people to get away with it before, but maybe that will change now. The more upgrades, the less warranties they have to honor, right? Just spitballing...
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:09 PM   #155
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But, wouldn't TiVo KNOW what DVRs were going to their MSO partners, as well as what went to retail channels, and make it where (as somebody else mentioned) the drive can only yield what they allow, and give the MSOs what they want, and nip retail units in the bud?

Essentially, at boot-up, the TSN goes to TiVo, they know if it's MSO or retail, and the allowed image size is put onto the drive. That would've been their ticket out of this.

On the other hand, how many warranties might they choose not to honor, even if you put the original drive back in... They have allowed people to get away with it before, but maybe that will change now. The more upgrades, the less warranties they have to honor, right? Just spitballing...
That's what I'm afraid of. It's too much money to spend to risk voiding the warranty and being stuck with a brick.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:09 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I would advise everyone to calm down a bit until we get confirmation that:

a. This works as intended w/no problems.

b. It works on the plus.

It beggars belief that TiVo would think they could get away with this, but I suppose they have done stranger things. At the very least, I suspect they will be more aggressive in enforcing the "cracking the case voids the warranty" rule.

Looking at weaKnees, if the only difference between the Plus and the Pro is drive size, I am at a loss to understand why anyone would pay $599 for a Pro when you can get a Plus with a 3TB drive for $569.

In any case, I still see a need for DIY tools for doing after use upgrades and failing drive replacements. Of course if it automatically formats a drive if it senses a change in hd s/n, then...never mind.

As to what is in the on board flash - it could be just a stub - enough to format the drive and d/l and install the full O/S.
$30 isn't a big deal when you are looking at $569 vs $599 especially when you consider potential warranty issues.

I do agree, as great as this is I am still hesitant to dive in with a Plus.

TiVo has never tried to stop drive upgrades, but that doesn't mean it couldn't change. It somewhat makes you question the pricing of the Pro now though. Why not make it the same price or cheaper than DIY so $549. This would guarantee at least for now people would buy over upgrade.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:10 PM   #157
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Looking at weaKnees, if the only difference between the Plus and the Pro is drive size, I am at a loss to understand why anyone would pay $599 for a Pro when you can get a Plus with a 3TB drive for $569.
With the $40 off coupon the Pro is $559 and with the Plus the coupon is only $25 making it $544. So for $15 you get the peace of mind that the unit has never been opened and you're guaranteed to get the manufacturer warranty. It also allows you to purchase the TiVo extended warranty without fear of rejection if something goes wrong.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:10 PM   #158
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I upgraded it before ever booting it.
How many times did it say downloading an update and did it reboot? Seems like I remember my XL4 rebooted like 2 or 3 times and downloaded an update once.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
But, wouldn't TiVo KNOW what DVRs were going to their MSO partners, as well as what went to retail channels, and be able to make it where (as somebody else mentioned) the drive can only yield what they allow, and give the MSOs what they want, and nip retail units in the bud?

Essentially, at boot-up, the TSN goes to TiVo, they know if it's MSO or retail, and the allowed image size is put onto the drive. That would've been their ticket out of this.

On the other hand, how many warranties might they choose not to honor, even if you put the original drive back in... They have allowed people to get away with it before, but maybe that will change now. The more upgrades, the less warranties they have to honor, right? Just spitballing...
At this point the cats out of the bag. It's kind of like how S3 units can use any eSATA drive while Premiere units can only use WD drives. They couldn't just stop supporting non-WD drives on the S3 because that would break TiVos that were in the field.

If they were going to add any sort of restriction or limitation they would have done it already. Now it's too late. All they can do now is get more strict on warranty claims.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #160
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I upgraded it before ever booting it.
Looks like another test someone will need to try.

Thinking out loud.

1. Can you upgrade after booting and activating with the stock drive?

2. Is the functionality the same on the Plus and Pro?

3. What is the bug with the 4TB drive?

4. Is this the Weaknees method or did they discover problems with this?

5. What will TiVo's response be?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:14 PM   #161
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I would advise everyone to calm down a bit until we get confirmation that:

a. This works as intended w/no problems.

b. It works on the plus.
From the software point of view, there's no difference between the base, plus, and pro when it comes to rebuilding the data disk.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:15 PM   #162
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If its as easy as slapping in the drive then weaknees should be arrested.
Well, they are also selling a SERVICE for those intimidated by such an easy task. I do see your point, but SERVICES will always be the money maker if we don't know DYI. The same for all SERVICE providers.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #163
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I hope it can work with a 4TB drive. I would like to get the Plus and the 4TB Seagate video drive for $200. Then my cost will be basically the same as getting the Pro. Plus I will still have the 1TB drive to put back in the Plus if needed.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I would advise everyone to calm down a bit until we get confirmation that:

a. This works as intended w/no problems.

b. It works on the plus.

It beggars belief that TiVo would think they could get away with this, but I suppose they have done stranger things. At the very least, I suspect they will be more aggressive in enforcing the "cracking the case voids the warranty" rule.

Looking at weaKnees, if the only difference between the Plus and the Pro is drive size, I am at a loss to understand why anyone would pay $599 for a Pro when you can get a Plus with a 3TB drive for $569.

In any case, I still see a need for DIY tools for doing after use upgrades and failing drive replacements. Of course if it automatically formats a drive if it senses a change in hd s/n, then...never mind.

As to what is in the on board flash - it could be just a stub - enough to format the drive and d/l and install the full O/S.
I fully agree.

What we have just seen could even be a hoax, for all anyone knows.

I'M NOT ACCUSING THE POSTER.

It's just, until we've done it ourselves, or seen some more time go by, like I said earlier, we're celebrating, and we haven't even seen if this unit can record, since they don't have cable service, nor can we know if the drive will fill up with all four tuners working and not run into problems.

I'm sure this thread alone will go viral, and weaknees will have some 'splainin' to do.

Let's celebrate once repeated, and fully tested, several times, over the different models...
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:19 PM   #165
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Before anyone asks or says it, I can confirm that if you take a larger size drive out of a 2 tuner Premiere, say like 2TB and put it into an XL4, boot it up and do a clear and delete everything, when it boots back up again after, it will download the correct software and install it on the drive. I have done this before.

And dont ask me what that has to do with the price of tea in China
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:21 PM   #166
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How many times did it say downloading an update and did it reboot? Seems like I remember my XL4 rebooted like 2 or 3 times and downloaded an update once.
It did it 2 times, first on initial boot then once going through the setup it said a update was available and installed.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:24 PM   #167
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This brings up other questions... Is all the software related stuff on flash? (i.e. the DB, guide data, settings, etc...) And only recordings are stored on the HDD? Or Once you go through setup does it put some of that on the HDD? What happens if you remove the drive after setup and put a new one it? Does it just reset and repeat setup? Or does it remember everything and just lose the recordings? If only recordings are stored on the HDD could you simply image a smaller drive with recordings on it to a bigger drive, drop it in, and have the TiVo automatically expand to fill the extra space?
No
No
Yes
Yes
No
No

Okay, so you should have numbered your questions, but you probably weren't expecting definitive answers. Here they are in context.

1. The "software" is split between Flash and the Hard disk.

2. Setup is not really related to rebuilding the "data disk" (harddrive), but much of the information populated and configuration done is recorded on the data disk. So removing the drive after setup and putting in a fresh drive returns you to square one. The unit will power up, see the data drive isn't initialized, will initialize it, complete booting, and go into guided setup.

3. You can't just copy a drive to a new drive and hope that the tivo will expand to fill the drive. The tivo will regard the new drive as a valid drive and not fiddle with it (and thus not expand it). Likewise, imaging a smaller drive with the recordings and restoring to a new drive has the same effect: no expansion.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:27 PM   #168
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I fully agree.

What we have just seen could even be a hoax, for all anyone knows.

I'M NOT ACCUSING THE POSTER.

It's just, until we've done it ourselves, or seen some more time go by, like I said earlier, we're celebrating, and we haven't even seen if this unit can record, since they don't have cable service, nor can we know if the drive will fill up with all four tuners working and not run into problems.

I'm sure this thread alone will go viral, and weaknees will have some 'splainin' to do.

Let's celebrate once repeated, and fully tested, several times, over the different models...
Lower probability it's a hoax if someone else previously noted the behavior and asked for confirmation.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:30 PM   #169
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No
No
Yes
Yes
No
No

Okay, so you should have numbered your questions, but you probably weren't expecting definitive answers. Here they are in context.

1. The "software" is split between Flash and the Hard disk.

2. Setup is not really related to rebuilding the "data disk" (harddrive), but much of the information populated and configuration done is recorded on the data disk. So removing the drive after setup and putting in a fresh drive returns you to square one. The unit will power up, see the data drive isn't initialized, will initialize it, complete booting, and go into guided setup.

3. You can't just copy a drive to a new drive and hope that the tivo will expand to fill the drive. The tivo will regard the new drive as a valid drive and not fiddle with it (and thus not expand it). Likewise, imaging a smaller drive with the recordings and restoring to a new drive has the same effect: no expansion.
So any idea what the 4TB bug might be that Weaknees mentioned? Might TiVo have a limit on expansion capabilities so only would only use 3TB of a 4TB drive.

Also any thoughts on if this is something TiVo might be able to stop/block in the future?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:31 PM   #170
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What 3TB drive should I try?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:32 PM   #171
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What 3TB drive should I try?
I would opt for either the Pipeline series from Seagate or the AV-GP from WD since that is the drive in the Pro.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:33 PM   #172
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At this point the cats out of the bag. It's kind of like how S3 units can use any eSATA drive while Premiere units can only use WD drives. They couldn't just stop supporting non-WD drives on the S3 because that would break TiVos that were in the field.

If they were going to add any sort of restriction or limitation they would have done it already. Now it's too late. All they can do now is get more strict on warranty claims.
On the first point: Yes, except they made sure the TiVo HD only accepted approved drives, then kept going with that. If I didn't point it out, somebody else would anyway. I seem to recall a window where the HD allowed the drives, and they let them work, only on the ones that already had them, but I'm not sure on that... So, that raises a question for me. The cat may be out of the bag, but couldn't they grandfather those who upgraded already, then deny the rest?

On the second point: Yes, I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T crack down hard on denying warranty claims for units that logged tampering. It could save (make) them a lot of money, denying warranty to upgraders. I think I'll re-read their new TOS, which I already plan to opt-out of.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:34 PM   #173
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There are some of us that can remember 5.25 full height hard drives, big suckers, all of 80 MB.
The first disk drives I worked with looked like this:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/p...4-21_Feb74.pdf
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:34 PM   #174
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Here is a quick YouTube video to show its not a 'hoax'

Tivo Roamio 2TB Hard Drive Upgrade
You need to upgrade your Flash Player

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:34 PM   #175
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On the first point: Yes, except they made sure the TiVo HD only accepted approved drives, then kept going with that. If I didn't point it out, somebody else would anyway. I seem to recall a window where the HD allowed the drives, and they let them work, only on the ones that already had them, but I'm not sure on that... So, that raises a question for me. The cat may be out of the bag, but couldn't they grandfather those who upgraded already, then deny the rest?

On the second point: Yes, I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T crack down hard on denying warranty claims for units that logged tampering. It could save (make) them a lot of money, denying warranty to upgraders. I think I'll re-read their new TOS, which I already plan to opt-out of.
I don't remember that in the TiVo HD at all.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:35 PM   #176
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Here is a quick YouTube video to show its not a 'hoax'

Tivo Roamio 2TB Hard Drive Upgrade
You need to upgrade your Flash Player
Peel the plastic man, peel the plastic .
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:36 PM   #177
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So any idea what the 4TB bug might be that Weaknees mentioned? Might TiVo have a limit on expansion capabilities so only would only use 3TB of a 4TB drive.

Also any thoughts on if this is something TiVo might be able to stop/block in the future?
Now that's a good question. The short answer is, I don't know, but there are a myriad of bugs and issues that can occur towards as one stretches the MFS partitions beyond what tivo has developed to and tested.

It's something that TiVo could block if they wished.

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:39 PM   #178
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Here is a quick YouTube video to show its not a 'hoax'

Tivo Roamio 2TB Hard Drive Upgrade
You need to upgrade your Flash Player
Thanks!! Its nice to see the menus moving around so fast!
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:40 PM   #179
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Yeah it kills me I can't watch TV on it but all the screens and everything fly compared to the premiere.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:41 PM   #180
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Do you not have any rabbit ears?
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