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Old 08-22-2013, 03:08 PM   #1
moyekj
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HDUI Wishlist screens issues

Surprised nobody has mentioned this yet. I know a lot of people here are clamoring for HDUI screens for everything, but I say leave good enough alone. HDUI Wishlists screens are an example of how perfectly functioning SDUI screens are being replaced by buggy and less featured HDUI screens.

I use wishlists a lot as search bookmarks. So, for example I'll have a title only wishlist called "NFL Football" and use the "upcoming" menu entry to see upcoming games that I may want to record.

The new HDUI Wishlist implementation is just terrible now for that functionality. At least 3 things that are annoying:

1. All wishlists are now set to auto-record automatically by default up front without up front option to not do so. So when I setup a generic wishlist with 100s of matches now the scheduler gets bogged down scheduling all of them only to all be cancelled a few minutes later when I get the chance to go and turn off auto-record option.

2. When using the "All Upcoming" feature when you press select on a specific show to get full details and then left arrow out to get back to the list of upcoming you are thrown to the top of the list every single time. Extremely annoying if you are going through a big list and trying to pick out individual recordings to schedule.
NOTE: If you go to a specific wishlist and use the "Upcoming" feature then it works as expected. i.e. This issue is broken for the "All Upcoming" feature only.

3. Channel up/down to move between show details in upcoming doesn't work, just as is the case for all the other HDUI screens.

4. HDUI Wishlists virtual keyboard doesn't honor uppercase letters when using virtual remotes using full keyboards (telnet and/or RPC protocols). i.e. To get uppercase 'H' I can't use shift+h with the virtual remote.

5. The Roamio Upcoming list wastes tons of vertical space showing you WLs with no matching shows. That means you have to scroll through lots of useless non-matching WLs to get to see the ones that have matches.

i.e. Functionality that worked fine for years has now been crippled. So for anyone asking for everything to be ported over to HDUI, be careful what you wish for. I personally would like to have the old SDUI implementation back for a lot of things, especially Wishlists.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:23 PM   #2
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1) I don't think many people use Wish Lists like that. I think most people use them to auto-record things not currently in the guide. So I doubt this will be a big issue for most people.

2) That sounds annoying. Hopefully it's something they'll fix in a future update.

3) This is true of all the HDUI screens. My Wife is always complaining about not being able to do this in the My Shows list like she could on her S3. Maybe they'll fix this someday, or maybe we'll forget it was ever an option.

All in all though I don't think these are quite as dire as you're making them out to be. They seem like minor annoyances not major flaws that justify bringing back the SDUI.

But I know everyone has their own way of doing things, and change can be hard, so I can understand why you would be annoyed.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:59 PM   #3
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moyekj - can you test to see if the HD Wishlist screen at least reverts to the TiVo HD behavior for 'Upcoming', rather than the Premiere behavior?

On my old TiVo HD, when I did a view upcoming, it'd collapse the list so each hit was displayed only one (even if there were lots of showings). If you wanted to see other show times you'd have to dig another level deeper into the menus.

On my Premiere Elite, when I do the same, I get lots and lots of repeats in the results. The same show/movie may appear 8 or more times. That really messes up looking through my wishlist for show movies from 2012.


But switching to automatically autorecording would also annoy me. Only maybe a quarter of my wishlists are autorecording (many of them have too many 'false positives' to want to autorecord. Or they're just there if I want to check for something to watch; like the aforementioned "movies, 2012" wishlist)
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:43 PM   #4
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moyekj - can you test to see if the HD Wishlist screen at least reverts to the TiVo HD behavior for 'Upcoming', rather than the Premiere behavior?

On my old TiVo HD, when I did a view upcoming, it'd collapse the list so each hit was displayed only one (even if there were lots of showings). If you wanted to see other show times you'd have to dig another level deeper into the menus.

On my Premiere Elite, when I do the same, I get lots and lots of repeats in the results. The same show/movie may appear 8 or more times. That really messes up looking through my wishlist for show movies from 2012.


But switching to automatically autorecording would also annoy me. Only maybe a quarter of my wishlists are autorecording (many of them have too many 'false positives' to want to autorecord. Or they're just there if I want to check for something to watch; like the aforementioned "movies, 2012" wishlist)
I think HDUI upcoming uses the "dumb" mode where it lists repeating showing multiple times. Makes bug #2 all that more annoying.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #5
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Very disappointing. I use WL extensively, for every imaginable scenario. Have over 100 of them. I use them for search bookmarks like you (although I never called them that), to create MOVIE folders (using the ARWL function combined with Boolean title searches), as regular WL. I even use them as Title separators in the SP display (see attached photo). And I still grimace whenever I use Upcoming and see the same show/movie listed 69 times.

And yes, I still use the SDUI on my Elite. I am still going to order a PRO, I want the six tuners, so I can give the Elite to my wife, and take her S3 back as a reserve OTA DVR. But this is disheartening news.



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Old 08-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #6
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3. Channel up/down to move between show details in upcoming doesn't work, just as is the case for all the other HDUI screens.
Not sure I understand this. Are you saying when you are in the Upcoming display of titles for a WL, you can't simply press CH-Down to go to the next show? And if I understand this correctly, it also does this (or rather, doesn't do this) on any list of shows? Like when you are in the Guide, and View Upcoming?

That would drive me nuts. That's one of the major ways I pick shows to record. Example: We like to watch some older BBT. I'll grab one in the guide, then use View Upcoming and get a list. Then open one up, and start Ch-Down'ing until I see one I want, hit Record, and keep going. If I had to back out and back in over & over, that would seem like a dramatically reduced functionality.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:13 PM   #7
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No. IN the SDUI when you're actually in a program description you can move to the next item in the list by pressing channel up/down without having to back out and manually select the next item on the list. In the HDUI you can't do that.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:14 PM   #8
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Not sure I understand this. Are you saying when you are in the Upcoming display of titles for a WL, you can't simply press CH-Down to go to the next show? And if I understand this correctly, it also does this (or rather, doesn't do this) on any list of shows? Like when you are in the Guide, and View Upcoming?

That would drive me nuts. That's one of the major ways I pick shows to record. Example: We like to watch some older BBT. I'll grab one in the guide, then use View Upcoming and get a list. Then open one up, and start Ch-Down'ing until I see one I want, hit Record, and keep going. If I had to back out and back in over & over, that would seem like a dramatically reduced functionality.
That's right. Channel up/down within shows details doesn't work for any HDUI list. Hence let's say you have a list of 10 shows under "upcoming" and you push into the detailed info screen of the 1st one. With SDUI as you know you could then jump to the 2nd entry by pressing channel down, or scroll back up to previous entry by pressing channel up. None of that works for HDUI. You have to press left arrow to return to the main list, then down arrow, then right arrow. (And for case of Wishlists upcoming list, when you press left arrow you are thrown all the way back to top of the list which is bug #2 I listed above).
Same applies to "My Shows" screen or any other list of shows in HDUI screens. TiVo programmers got "lazy" and decided to not include that functionality anymore. But it's exactly features such as that one that really set TiVo apart from other DVRs so it's sad to see them thrown away.

It wouldn't be a big deal if TiVo actually used the multiple HDUI panels in a smarter way where the right panel would give you all the show details you need such that you wouldn't have to select the show and navigate to the detailed info page, but sadly the right panel typically doesn't show all the information you might want.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:22 PM   #9
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Uggh, really don't like this news. Heck, the main reason for sticking with SDUI all these years was speed and efficiency; that's all I care about. This seems like a step back.

Thanks for responding though.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:48 PM   #10
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Uggh, really don't like this news. Heck, the main reason for sticking with SDUI all these years was speed and efficiency; that's all I care about. This seems like a step back.

Thanks for responding though.
FYI, SDUI option is no longer available for the S5 platform in case you didn't know that already.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:55 PM   #11
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FYI, SDUI option is no longer available for the S5 platform in case you didn't know that already.
Yeah, I read that. At least it's supposed to be zippy now.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:58 PM   #12
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The new HDUI Wishlist implementation is just terrible now for that functionality. At least 3 things that are annoying:

1. All wishlists are now set to auto-record automatically by default up front without up front option to not do so. So when I setup a generic wishlist with 100s of matches now the scheduler gets bogged down scheduling all of them only to all be cancelled a few minutes later when I get the chance to go and turn off auto-record option.

2. When using the "upcoming" feature when you push into show details of a match and the left arrow out of it you are thrown to the top of the "upcoming" list every single time. Extremely annoying if you are going through a big list and trying to pick out individual recordings to schedule.

3. Channel up/down to move between show details in upcoming doesn't work, just as is the case for all the other HDUI screens.

i.e. Functionality that worked fine for years has now been crippled. So for anyone asking for everything to be ported over to HDUI, be careful what you wish for. I personally would like to have the old SDUI implementation back for a lot of things, especially Wishlists.

Please go to Tivo's OFFICIAL FORUMS and start a thread about this. That's as close as we can get to "write up a bug".
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:00 PM   #13
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That's right. Channel up/down within shows details doesn't work for any HDUI list.
This is true for Premieres too.. I have ranted about it too.. (But I admit hypocritically, I did NOT start a thread about this.)

This is one of those issues that ALMOST has me switch back to the SDUI. But I am one of those who wants the free space indicator so much that I put up with the other issues (like this) for it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:30 PM   #14
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One more HDUI WL annoyance:
4. HDUI Wishlists virtual keyboard doesn't honor uppercase letters when using virtual remotes using full keyboards (telnet and/or RPC protocols). i.e. To get uppercase 'H' I can't use shift+h with the virtual remote.

For issue #1 workaround I'll just create non ARWL using kmttg instead since there is option there to not auto record up front.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:11 PM   #15
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1. All wishlists are now set to auto-record automatically by default up front without up front option to not do so. So when I setup a generic wishlist with 100s of matches now the scheduler gets bogged down scheduling all of them only to all be cancelled a few minutes later when I get the chance to go and turn off auto-record option.
As a kludge, could one create a WL that won't have any hits, let it do its ARWL thing, turn off AR, then edit the WL to what you actually want?

I realize this would be a HUGE PITA, but it beats going thru the scheduling bogdown. And I create a LOT of WL that you call "search bookmarks", which would have 100's of hits. For example, I have one called "Pilots", and one called "Horses". Those alone number in the gazillions.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:40 AM   #16
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As a kludge, could one create a WL that won't have any hits, let it do its ARWL thing, turn off AR, then edit the WL to what you actually want?
That's exactly how I've been getting around the ARWL thing -- I set up a WL for "AAAAAAAAA", which hits nothing, save it, then edit it to first turn off AR then modify the criteria as needed.
A crappy kludge that shouldn't have be done, but for now seems the only way to avoid the auto-scheduling hell that ensues on an encompassing match.

I, too, miss the old SD Wishlist functionality in comparison to the HD version on Roamio. One can hope TiVo hears the user cries and fixes the HD version.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:56 PM   #17
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That's exactly how I've been getting around the ARWL thing -- I set up a WL for "AAAAAAAAA", which hits nothing, save it, then edit it to first turn off AR then modify the criteria as needed.
A crappy kludge that shouldn't have be done, but for now seems the only way to avoid the auto-scheduling hell that ensues on an encompassing match.

I, too, miss the old SD Wishlist functionality in comparison to the HD version on Roamio. One can hope TiVo hears the user cries and fixes the HD version.
Thanks for letting us know that method does work.

Other than this ARWL madness, is there any other true functionality that is missing from the new WL? Do all the Boolean and other criteria work? As someone with 50-60 WL, I might as well find out where the pain might be.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:26 PM   #18
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One thing I don't like about the new wishlists is the upcoming screen. The old one on my HD only showed WLs that had matching shows. The Roamio one wastes tons of vertical space showing you WLs with no matching shows. That means you have to scroll through lots of useless non-matching WLs to get to see the ones that have matches.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:03 PM   #19
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I tried last night doing a wishlist for keyword 'pilot' doing the aaaaa method. But as soon as I edited the aaaaa..... keyword to 'pilot' the AR flag turned back on. I didn't get a bog down and was able to turn off the AR flag right away.

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Old 09-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #20
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It is incredibly annoying to me that when you navigate from a Wishlist to its Upcoming shows, you cannot set up a Season Pass for any of said Upcoming shows. On my TiVoHD, you can do this. I consider this a functional regression in the Roamio.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:49 PM   #21
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Yuck. Sounds like they did a ground-up rebuild to create the HD interface, with a new cast of characters playing "programmer." People who were not aware of or didn't appreciate the finer nuances that the SD UI had or was capable of. Bummer. I think I will be sticking with my Premiere and its SD menus for a while longer.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:59 PM   #22
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Yuck. Sounds like they did a ground-up rebuild to create the HD interface, with a new cast of characters playing "programmer." People who were not aware of or didn't appreciate the finer nuances that the SD UI had or was capable of. Bummer. I think I will be sticking with my Premiere and its SD menus for a while longer.
The Premiere will likely get the same update as part of the Fall software release, which is likely to start rolling out in the next month or so. So unless you're willing to revert back to the complete SDUI you're going to lose them soon as well.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:07 AM   #23
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The Premiere will likely get the same update as part of the Fall software release, which is likely to start rolling out in the next month or so. So unless you're willing to revert back to the complete SDUI you're going to lose them soon as well.
Hi Dan, for me I am fine living in SD land with my Premiere. If I have the freedom to choose between additional features I most likely won't use and a slow buggy interface, versus tried and true functionality but a boring interface, I will opt for the boring interface every single time.

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Old 10-07-2013, 12:11 PM   #24
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I believe I observer this rather serious problem with the interaction between season pass and wishlist on a Roamio I'm just setting up:

1 - I have a season pass for Sunday night football (Nicely transferred from HD to Roamio via TiVo)
2 - I built a general WL for NFL keyword with Football sports category.
3 - I deleted the WL due to its autostarting a massive amount of recordings I didn't want.
4 - I believe this caused the SP (which may have been running) to be deleted or to stop recording .. I don't recall the exact details but it caused the game to not be recorded. Thankfully the HD dutifully recorded the game so no harm.

So the question is: has anyone seen questionable interaction between WL and SP?

-- Owen
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:26 PM   #25
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One other question: When a WL is created, it does not appear to include a HD option. But when a WL is completed, there is an area in the HDUI that includes options like HD only, first runs, etc .. SP-like options. But I can't seem to navigate to that area .. its in the top-right part of the view.

Is there a way to limit WL to only show HD options? I've made the mistake in the past of recording the SD version and would prefer the option to be part of the WL.

Well at least if I can make WL useable at all! It'd be nice to have a Users Guide .. is there one? Well, there is http://goo.gl/5MgEzN, I'll check that. The TiVo WL page: http://goo.gl/evL4zf wasn't all that helpful.

Thanks for the help,

-- Owen
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:25 PM   #26
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Is there a way to limit WL to only show HD options?
Remove SD channels from your channel lineup.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:21 PM   #27
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1) I don't think many people use Wish Lists like that. I think most people use them to auto-record things not currently in the guide. So I doubt this will be a big issue for most people.
I have to disagree with you about this, Dan. While a lot of people may use wish lists to auto record, I believe that a lot don't want to auto record very often if at all. I know I don't.

I set up wish lists for a specific actor I want to see. But, I don't want to automatically record every movie and TV show the actor is in. I have already seen most of them. So, I want to pick and choose.

The Olympics are coming so I'll have an Olympics wish list, but I don't want to record all the shows that might have Olympics in the title or description. Many of them are talk shows or replays of prior years.

But we agree that it needs to be made optional and easier to access.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:46 PM   #28
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I have to disagree with you about this, Dan. While a lot of people may use wish lists to auto record, I believe that a lot don't want to auto record very often if at all. I know I don't.

I set up wish lists for a specific actor I want to see. But, I don't want to automatically record every movie and TV show the actor is in. I have already seen most of them. So, I want to pick and choose.

The Olympics are coming so I'll have an Olympics wish list, but I don't want to record all the shows that might have Olympics in the title or description. Many of them are talk shows or replays of prior years.

But we agree that it needs to be made optional and easier to access.
I totally agree! And I *am* trying hard not to be grumpy about the new HDUI simply because it is different. But WLs are now dangerously badly designed. Absolutely needs to be a default to not auto-record.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #29
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Remove SD channels from your channel lineup.
Good idea. Is there an easy way to do this? The Channel List does not include HD/SD info. Maybe an option somewhere? Or a "search"?

I suppose I can manually remove the SD channels via scrolling thru the channels less than a certain number? I think all the higher channel numbers are HD?

Or is there a list somewhere on my cable provider?

Thanks!
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:48 PM   #30
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Good idea. Is there an easy way to do this? The Channel List does not include HD/SD info. Maybe an option somewhere? Or a "search"?

I suppose I can manually remove the SD channels via scrolling thru the channels less than a certain number? I think all the higher channel numbers are HD?

Or is there a list somewhere on my cable provider?

Thanks!

You can remove channels when viewing the guide. Pull it up, sort it alphabetically, delete SD channels.
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