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Old 08-21-2013, 06:35 PM   #31
sbiller
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Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post
Any word if there is a 1080p60 option in the video set up menu or is it like the Premieres 1080p24?
Ben from Engadget indicated last night that the box has an option to scale all content to 1080p60.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:39 PM   #32
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I don't know. Troy J B didn't say whether it showed 1080P24 as pass through. It could scale it to 1080p24? Although that would be unusual..
Sorry, I only have a 1080i display

Between the 1080p & 1080p (24fps only) is a horizontal line.

The help says "If your TV supports 1080p (24fps): Note that TiVo box may not be able to upscale video to 1080p at this format, but it can pass 1080p video at 24 frames per seconds to the TV without downscaling it."
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:49 PM   #33
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Sorry, I only have a 1080i display

Between the 1080p & 1080p (24fps only) is a horizontal line.

The help says "If your TV supports 1080p (24fps): Note that TiVo box may not be able to upscale video to 1080p at this format, but it can pass 1080p video at 24 frames per seconds to the TV without downscaling it."
So there is two 1080p options, 1080p and 1080p24? This would indicate it may scale to 1080p60 then.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:54 PM   #34
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So far, I'll echo what others have said. This is what the premiers should have been.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:59 PM   #35
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So there is two 1080p options, 1080p and 1080p24? This would indicate it may scale to 1080p60 then.
Ben didn't recall seeing that annoying hdmi blackout when the resolution switches. He wasn't aware of the specific issue we were all having with our Premiere boxes.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:07 PM   #36
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Ben from Engadget indicated last night that the box has an option to scale all content to 1080p60.
Troy J B has indicated that there is two 1080p options, 1080p and 1080p24. He has a 1080i only display and the two are greyed out.

I just realized one thing TiVo could have done with the Roamio. They should have went with Tru2Way and this would have eliminated the need for the tuning adapter assuming the cable headend is Tru2Way compliant. I know that all Comcast headends are Tru2Way compliant and even Comcast VOD and PPV would work with out the need for an Ethernet connection.

TiVo would have to go through Cable Labs certification again and also added an internal OOB (Out of Band) tuner. This might add a little more cost to the box though. All cablecards are two way capable, even the old single stream cards. This would have also helped with copy protection as the box can talk back to the head end to the get copy protection key generated by the TiVo when copy protection is turned on by the operator.

Last edited by Jed1 : 08-21-2013 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:16 PM   #37
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Ben didn't recall seeing that annoying hdmi blackout when the resolution switches. He wasn't aware of the specific issue we were all having with our Premiere boxes.
With the TiVo in 1080p60 output it would not need a new handshake every time you change to a channel with a different resolution. The blackout is caused by the box needing to make a new HDMI handshake with the display with every resolution change.

My cable companies Pace RNG200 had 1080p60 output and it did a nice job scaling everything to 1080p60. It was just as good as the scaling my Kuros would do. For some stupid reason Pace took away the 1080p60 ability in a firmware update and I had to have a default resolution selected, like 480i, so I could get both the HD resolutions up scaled to 1080p60 in the Pace.

I wonder how well the 1080p60 scaling capabilities of the Roamio work compared to the Kuros.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:24 PM   #38
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Haven't been enable to get MRS working from my Elite yet due to a "network" issue even though they are on the same wired Ethernet network.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:30 PM   #39
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So far, I'll echo what others have said. This is what the premiers should have been.
The Premieres are on par with the Motorola DCX 3400 as they are from the same time period. They should have done Tru2Way in the Premieres.
It looks like the Roamios are on par with the Pace RNG200 but the Roamios lack Tru2Way also. Maybe in the Series 6 TiVos.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:35 PM   #40
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I just realized one thing TiVo could have done with the Roamio. They should have went with Tru2Way and this would have eliminated the need for the tuning adapter assuming the cable headend is Tru2Way compliant. I know that all Comcast headends are Tru2Way compliant and even Comcast VOD and PPV would work with out the need for an Ethernet connection.
That was the idea behind Tru2way, but it never worked out. There is no interoperability between present Tru2way implementations between any two different manufacturers, and there are at present no third-party Tru2way devices being made, AFAIK.

In addition, Tru2way protocol implies the content provider provides the interface to their data. Thus even if TiVo did implement a Comcast specific Tru2way device, they would have to use Comcast's interface to Comcast's data, not their own. You're really in favor of that???
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:39 PM   #41
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Ben from Engadget indicated last night that the box has an option to scale all content to 1080p60.
Great!!!!
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:47 PM   #42
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I just realized one thing TiVo could have done with the Roamio. They should have went with Tru2Way and this would have eliminated the need for the tuning adapter assuming the cable headend is Tru2Way compliant. I know that all Comcast headends are Tru2Way compliant and even Comcast VOD and PPV would work with out the need for an Ethernet connection.
My limited understanding of Tru2Way is that it can be a 100% software based solution with existing cable cards and IP connectivity through an existing ethernet/cable modem. So TiVo should be able to add that later to the existing boxes, if they wanted to. Of course, you would probably have to subscribe to the cable company's Internet service, but most people do that already. And if not, use the stupid TA.

But I thought the whole thing was yet another miserable failure due to lack of interest by the cable companies and lack of standardization and not being forced by the FCC.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:51 PM   #43
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My limited understanding of Tru2Way is that it can be a 100% software based solution with existing cable cards and IP connectivity through an existing ethernet/cable modem. So TiVo should be able to add that later to the existing boxes, if they wanted to. Of course, you would probably have to subscribe to the cable company's Internet service, but most people do that already. And if not, use the stupid TA.

But I thought the whole thing was yet another miserable failure due to lack of interest by the cable companies and lack of standardization and not being forced by the FCC.
The push for Tru2way is dead and they are now pushing RDK

http://rdkcentral.com/

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Old 08-21-2013, 07:52 PM   #44
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Haven't been enable to get MRS working from my Elite yet due to a "network" issue even though they are on the same wired Ethernet network.
It can take some time for them to see each other. Also sometimes running different versions will block it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:11 PM   #45
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It can take some time for them to see each other. Also sometimes running different versions will block it.
Yeah, I was hoping that it will work tomorrow. In the meantime, with very few channels coming in until brighthouse fixes my CC pairing, been using the netflix app. MUCH better than the Premiere version!
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:15 PM   #46
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Count me among those wondering the speed of channel changing using the Mini with Roamio. I'm considering replacing a bunch of Premieres for Pro w/ minis.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:17 PM   #47
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Finally a snappy UI. It just feels so much better navigating through menus now. I no longer have to watch each character form individually, one by one, when moving between screens.

Now the stupid online Season Pass manager won't let me copy any season passes. Maybe something has to update for it to figure out what's what, but kind of annoying all it can manage to tell me is it's "unable to transfer the following...".
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:21 PM   #48
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That was the idea behind Tru2way, but it never worked out. There is no interoperability between present Tru2way implementations between any two different manufacturers, and there are at present no third-party Tru2way devices being made, AFAIK.

In addition, Tru2way protocol implies the content provider provides the interface to their data. Thus even if TiVo did implement a Comcast specific Tru2way device, they would have to use Comcast's interface to Comcast's data, not their own. You're really in favor of that???
For VOD, Copy Protection, and those stuck with SDV the answer is yes. The rest can come from other parties. The only thing the cable industry cared about was VOD access as it concerned CableCards but the one way host can not provide this. This is why there has been so much resistance to CableCards as it blocks a revenue stream.
I've been working with the engineers of my system since January trying to get the Copy Protection Management System working with CableCards. Works fine with the cable company boxes though as they are on a separate set up.

I do know for a fact that the cable industry would love to have to issue only CableCards and let the customer bear all the burden for the equipment. The losses on the HD DVRs are staggering as most boxes only last two to three years in circulation. Also not to mention all the cost of having different legacy boxes in circulation.
Another problem is most customers are not going to pay anything over a $100 for a device to view cable TV. I think that this one thing will finally sink CableCards as the TiVo's are the only ones left using them. Unless TiVo's become fully compatible with cable TV systems I do not foresee this separable security mandate going on much longer. Remember just like satellite, cable TV is a privately owned closed loop system that has nothing to do with public air waves and doesn't get public money to operate.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:23 PM   #49
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Now the stupid online Season Pass manager won't let me copy any season passes. Maybe something has to update for it to figure out what's what, but kind of annoying all it can manage to tell me is it's "unable to transfer the following...".
Just qickly download KMTTG and that will take care of it for you!
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:28 PM   #50
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People seem to forget this every launch, but it can take up to 7 days for some things to work. Sometimes forcing an extra call home is enough. Other times you might have to flip the options on sharing permissions on tivo.com and then force a call. After the call completes wait a little, and recheck the permissions then force another call.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:32 PM   #51
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One thing I found out right off was that the Ethernet port on the base model is NOT Gbit. 10/100 only. Pretty bummed since Tivo advertised it as Gbit.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:35 PM   #52
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One thing I found out right off was that the Ethernet port on the base model is NOT Gbit. 10/100 only. Pretty bummed since Tivo advertised it as Gbit.
The Pro model is definitely connecting to my switch at 1Gbps/Full Duplex. I checked the config info of that port of the switch via its online management interface.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:41 PM   #53
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Remember just like satellite, cable TV is a privately owned closed loop system that has nothing to do with public air waves and doesn't get public money to operate.
Right like they don't run their wires all over public property
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:56 PM   #54
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Now the stupid online Season Pass manager won't let me copy any season passes. Maybe something has to update for it to figure out what's what, but kind of annoying all it can manage to tell me is it's "unable to transfer the following...".
I was getting that initially trying to copy from my s3. I think between taking the s3 out of standby, and the Roamio being done loading data, the copy of the season passes finally worked. Albeit out of order. I started re-ordering them, then dawned on me, with 6 tuners priority does not matter
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:01 PM   #55
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I do know for a fact that the cable industry would love to have to issue only CableCards and let the customer bear all the burden for the equipment. The losses on the HD DVRs are staggering as most boxes only last two to three years in circulation. Also not to mention all the cost of having different legacy boxes in circulation.
Sorry, I don't believe your argument for a minute. The cable companies have always been about control of their information and the presentation of their information. Sure, they'd like someone else being responsible for maintaining the equipment, but they want to dictate every single interaction the user has with that equipment. Those are contradictory goals, and the contradiction has always been resolved in favor of them being in control. Contrary to what you state, they wouldn't for an instant be happy with just supplying a cable card to customer equipment; they have to be in charge of what the customer sees.

According to your arguments, the cable companies should be the biggest supporters of TiVo out there. But everybody here knows differently.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:12 PM   #56
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Haven't been enable to get MRS working from my Elite yet due to a "network" issue even though they are on the same wired Ethernet network.
Try forcing a network connection on the non-Roamio. Got the same message and this worked for me.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:28 PM   #57
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According to your arguments, the cable companies should be the biggest supporters of TiVo out there. But everybody here knows differently.
True. Renting equipment is a huge revenue stream for them. I paid for Comcast's DVR a couple of times before I bought a TiVo.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:49 PM   #58
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Try forcing a network connection on the non-Roamio. Got the same message and this worked for me.
Yeah, it is working now. Thanks.

Once again, very happy with the speed. It is like just opening a folder when accessing my Elite and shows play immediately.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:53 PM   #59
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OK, here's a question I haven't seen covered yet... If someone is willing to pull the plug on their Roamio..

How fast does it reboot *and start recording again*?

I admit, if my recording is missing a significant portion of the show, I likely will delete it and watch it On Demand or something..

But e.g. the OLED S3 & TivoHD take more than 5 minutes (I think closer to 10, but my memory is fading) to *fully* boot and be able to record again.

The Premiere 4 is a LOT faster, a couple of minutes, but still IMHO AGONIZINGLY long.

I realize some of that is to reacquire channels on the cablecard, so the times to getting back to now playing & the time before it starts recording again would be GREATLY appreciated.

Yes, tivos should never crash/shouldn't reboot/you should have everything on a UPS.. blah blah blah.. I'm still interested in these figures... and would possibly _very slightly_ push me to getting one sooner (esp replacing P4 + TivoHD + Tivo Stream with one Roamio).
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:54 PM   #60
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One thing I found out right off was that the Ethernet port on the base model is NOT Gbit. 10/100 only. Pretty bummed since Tivo advertised it as Gbit.
I thought I read somewhere that the base Roamio was only 10/100 ethernet, but I then checked the TiVo website and under the specs it did state the base model was 10/100/1000. I am glad someone has confirmed that it's unfortunately not an gigabit port.
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