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Old 08-20-2013, 09:34 AM   #1
Nightpoison
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Tivo, what are you doing, No HDMI-CEC?????

Tivo,

This is a letter to know what is going on. Your new devices you just announced are great! Offering up to 3TB of storage, up to 6 tuners, updated software, better internals, wifi built-in, and an updated design. At the end of the day I have to ask, what were you thinking not including HDMI-CEC support? Sure leave it off the base model, toss around the idea for the Plus, but it has to be apart of your Pro line. After all its a Pro level feature right. So why did you leave it off? Some of us use and want this functionality, functionality that is available in much cheaper and inferior product. So can you explain why you left it out?

I would really like to know as I'm debating about picking up the new X1 box from Comcast and moving on from Tivo. I've had four Tivo units now. My first one was in 2003 and have had seen your company grow. Each new model you release you leave something off. Something that should be current generation. Leaving us always wanting.

I am being honest, could you please let us know why you decided to make this poor decision? We would all very much like to know.

respectfully a long time customer,
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:59 AM   #2
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what is HDMI-CEC ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:26 AM   #3
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"CEC wiring is mandatory, although implementation of CEC in a product is optional."

They could add it later. But I'm assuming it's because they want you using their experience entirely - rather than say trying to run it through the new Xbox One.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
"CEC wiring is mandatory, although implementation of CEC in a product is optional."

They could add it later. But I'm assuming it's because they want you using their experience entirely - rather than say trying to run it through the new Xbox One.
but it's useful in so many other scenarios. I want the TV to switch to TiVo's input automatically when I want to watch TiVo. If Google can include this in a $35 Chromecast, TiVo should be able to include it in a box that costs more than 10x that.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:42 AM   #5
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how would it switch to Tivo's input automatically....... is it a mind reader? lol

You have to hit a button to switch it, so I'm not sure I understand. Though I have a Harmony One remote.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:42 AM   #6
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but it's useful in so many other scenarios. I want the TV to switch to TiVo's input automatically when I want to watch TiVo. If Google can include this in a $35 Chromecast, TiVo should be able to include it in a box that cost more than 10x that.
True, they don't have to implement all the CEC commands....
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #7
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Chromecast rocks, it feels like magic when you send it a request and it changes your input.
I go from watching my Tivo on input 1, to a youtube video on input instantly.
I got 3x Chromecast devices.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #8
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Pressing the TiVo button should trigger the request to change inputs to the TiVo.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
how would it switch to Tivo's input automatically....... is it a mind reader? lol

You have to hit a button to switch it, so I'm not sure I understand. Though I have a Harmony One remote.
But you could have the TiVo tell the TV (or AV reciever) to switch to it's input if you press the 'TiVo' button on the TiVo remote. (Edit: What mweksell said)

That would save you from having to program a universal remote with the input switch command. Being able to switch back to TiVo using only the peanut remote could be occasionally useful to me.

Also it could, if TiVo implemented the appropriate transport commands, play and pause your TiVo shows using the (non-universal) TV or AV receiver remote because they'd relay the command over HDMI. (Personally I wouldn't bother with that because I prefer the TiVo remote.)


Or for people who like using standby on their TiVos HDMI CEC could tell the TiVo when the TV was turned on and off; so the TiVo could automatically go into standby when the TV was turned off and wake up when it was turned back on. (Or wait until a TiVo button was pressed to wake up; but certainly auto-standby when TV turned off would be helpful to those people)
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #10
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But you could have the TiVo tell the TV (or AV reciever) to switch to it's input if you press the 'TiVo' button on the TiVo remote. (Edit: What mweksell said)
You need a receiver or TV that uses CEC though. Mine's 5 years old, and I don't think it does.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #11
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TiVo doesn't WANT you to switch inputs, one box, remember?
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:09 PM   #12
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TiVo doesn't WANT you to switch inputs, one box, remember?
right. what are the other inputs for? you don't need them! pishaw.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #13
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TiVo doesn't WANT you to switch inputs, one box, remember?
But HDMI-CEC would make it easier to switch *to* TiVo as well. Putting their head in the sand (again) and leaving out obvious innovation that other devices include, just makes them look stupid (again.)
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #14
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But HDMI-CEC would make it easier to switch *to* TiVo as well. Putting their head in the sand (again) and leaving out obvious innovation that other devices include, just makes them look stupid (again.)
I understand your point, but I'd be happier if Tivo would finish "baking" its existing products rather than adding shiny new features that never get fully supported.

I'm *still* waiting for my Tivo S3 to support two tunes with a single M-Card.
Nevermind that full HD UI that's more than 3 years overdue!
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:49 PM   #15
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I understand your point, but I'd be happier if Tivo would finish "baking" its existing products rather than adding shiny new features that never get fully supported.

I'm *still* waiting for my Tivo S3 to support two tunes with a single M-Card.
Nevermind that full HD UI that's more than 3 years overdue!
All you need to experience is the HDMI-CEC on a $35 Chromecast to see that it's not hocus pocus. It's a simple spec that any new device should incorporate. Power on, switch input. That's all we're asking.

As far as your S3 goes, you really need to *stop* waiting for any new improvements or support for that box. They are not in the works. The S3 line died (in the eyes of TiVo) long ago. There have been so many signs of this, it's patently obvious. Sorry. Let it go.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fofer View Post
All you need to experience is the HDMI-CEC on a $35 Chromecast to see that it's not hocus pocus. It's a simple spec that any new device should incorporate. Power on, switch input. That's all we're asking.

As far as your S3 goes, you really need to *stop* waiting for any new improvements or support for that box. They are not in the works. The S3 line died (in the eyes of TiVo) long ago. There have been so many signs of this, it's patently obvious. Sorry. Let it go.
And the same goes for OTA - Let it go!
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:14 PM   #17
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All you need to experience is the HDMI-CEC on a $35 Chromecast to see that it's not hocus pocus. It's a simple spec that any new device should incorporate. Power on, switch input. That's all we're asking.

As far as your S3 goes, you really need to *stop* waiting for any new improvements or support for that box. They are not in the works. The S3 line died (in the eyes of TiVo) long ago. There have been so many signs of this, it's patently obvious. Sorry. Let it go.
I guess I was too subtle in my statement of "still waiting". I didn't mean that waiting=expecting. Rather, I meant that it never happened. I "let it go" years ago, though I'm still paying an extra $8.50 per month to Comcast for the second M-card required for the second tuner.

As for your desire for HDMI-CEC, I'm sure it will be included in the Series 6. Or perhaps 7. Tivo is one company whose "cutting edge" often gets released with aspects that are behind the times.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #18
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The S3 was built to a draft specification of the M-Card standard. A last minute change to the standard made it impossible for the hardware itself to support a single M-Card. That's why we never got that, it wasn't a software limitation.

As mentioned above CEC could still be added via software, so we may eventually see this. However, as we all know, TiVo is a bit slower then other companies when it comes to software updates so it could be a while.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:38 PM   #19
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Yet another thing (along with Amazon Prime Streaming) that my $35 RasPi running XBMC/OpenElec can do that my TiVo can't.

Still, probably won't deter me from getting one.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:58 PM   #20
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You need a receiver or TV that uses CEC though. Mine's 5 years old, and I don't think it does.
True, but my TV and receiver happen to both be new enough to support it.

I'm currently using it for keeping the receiver slaved to the TV's power state - turn the TV on and the receiver notices and turns itself on as well; turn the TV off and the receiver automatically turns off. I could do that with a universal remote; but this way is more reliable (they can't end up out of sync from a missed IR command) and even works if I use the TV's physical power button.

So if TiVo did output CEC codes to alert the receiver to switch inputs that could save me having go pick up the remote receiver to get back to the TiVo input if I'd had it on game or blu-ray. (and forgotten to switch back when I was done)


That said, it's hardly a big deal for me - it'd just be a nice add if they did implement this.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #21
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And the same goes for OTA - Let it go!
Who are you responding to here? Who's "holding out" for OTA?


My 2-tuner Premiere as well as the base Roamio support HD antenna (OTA) input. So support for that isn't nearly as dead as the S3 line is. I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:26 PM   #22
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True, but my TV and receiver happen to both be new enough to support it.

I'm currently using it for keeping the receiver slaved to the TV's power state - turn the TV on and the receiver notices and turns itself on as well; turn the TV off and the receiver automatically turns off. I could do that with a universal remote; but this way is more reliable (they can't end up out of sync from a missed IR command) and even works if I use the TV's physical power button.

So if TiVo did output CEC codes to alert the receiver to switch inputs that could save me having go pick up the remote receiver to get back to the TiVo input if I'd had it on game or blu-ray. (and forgotten to switch back when I was done)


That said, it's hardly a big deal for me - it'd just be a nice add if they did implement this.
What happens if the TV is off and you want to listen to some music? Or you switch from watching TV to music?

I still ike using my Unievrsal harmony remote. Since for most devices I can point it in any direct(even at the floor behind the couch) and the devices will respond to it.

Hopefully the TiVo Roamios continue the great IR reception that the S3 and S4 boxes had.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #23
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I tried using CEC on my TV and receiver and it was sort of weird. I don't know if one is not up to spec, but sometimes the TV and receiver would get out of sync so while the TV said the volume was at 45 the receiver would say 20. I'd have to turn it all the way down to the minimum to get them back in sync. It was also sort of laggy. I ended up turning it off.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:16 PM   #24
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I tried using CEC on my TV and receiver and it was sort of weird. I don't know if one is not up to spec, but sometimes the TV and receiver would get out of sync so while the TV said the volume was at 45 the receiver would say 20. I'd have to turn it all the way down to the minimum to get them back in sync. It was also sort of laggy. I ended up turning it off.
Glitchy and laggy, sounds perfect for Tivo.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:41 PM   #25
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Glitchy and laggy, sounds perfect for Tivo.
LOL
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:31 PM   #26
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Wait, you actually ever have your TV on anything BUT the Tivo input?

(OK, that's actually a joke, since I'm being a hypocrite. I *do* switch my TV's inputs to go to my PS3 -- occasionally.. and mostly I leave it on the input for my Toshiba XS32 -- and use *its* input switcher to change between my two tivos.. It's much faster than switching HDMI, plus I record a decent amount TO the XS32 to watch faster-than-realtime.)
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:23 AM   #27
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I bought a Smart TV specifically to avoid having to switch inputs and turn on another device. If TiVo adds all the same apps it has then I'll never even have to switch to the Smart TV UI.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:21 AM   #28
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The S3 was built to a draft specification of the M-Card standard. A last minute change to the standard made it impossible for the hardware itself to support a single M-Card. That's why we never got that, it wasn't a software limitation.
TivoPony stated a long time ago that it wasn't a hardware limitation. They just considered the customer base too small and the risk involved to high to devote development resources to it.


Post #15: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=402682
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:12 PM   #29
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What happens if the TV is off and you want to listen to some music? Or you switch from watching TV to music?

I still ike using my Unievrsal harmony remote. Since for most devices I can point it in any direct(even at the floor behind the couch) and the devices will respond to it.

Hopefully the TiVo Roamios continue the great IR reception that the S3 and S4 boxes had.
I've got it set where the AV receiver monitor's the TV, not the other way around.

So if the TV's off and I want to listen to music I turn the receiver on and switch to the approriate input; the TV remains off.

Also, if for some reason I wanted to use only the TV's speakers I could turn off the receiver and the TV would remain on.


Now, if the TV was on and I want to turn it off and listen to music then receiver would shut off and I'd have to turn it back on before switching inputs. If switching directly from TV to music was a very frequent usage pattern of mine it might get annoying; but over 90% of the time if I'm turning on the receiver it's because I'm using the TV (whether for TiVo, games, or Blu rays)

(Of course how I used CEC was configurable, and it's use at all was optional. If I had a univeral remote that I was confortable with I'd just disabled CEC and it'd act like any other 'dumb' set of components. But as it is my blu ray player (PS3) doesn't work by default with universal remotes, that would limit it's usefulness - so I just use the TiVo slide remote most of the time and the receiver remote if I need to swap inputs. People with more components, or differnt usage patterns would likely want a different setup; but mine works well for me)
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:20 PM   #30
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TivoPony stated a long time ago that it wasn't a hardware limitation. They just considered the customer base too small and the risk involved to high to devote development resources to it.

Post #15: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=402682
OK that sounds to me like they might have to update the PROM in the field. They have never done that, even at the behest of their own security, because it's such a risky deployment. If it fails then the whole box is bricked. Their typical double partition fail safe would not work for a PROM update. So while it could technically be fixed via "software" it wasn't really a viable option.
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