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Old 08-21-2013, 01:05 PM   #1
sdsvtdriver
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HD failure on S3 (THX)

Came home yesterday to find my APC H15 off due to a relay failure. Reset the unit and my S3 boots up and all seems to be well... then it rebooted again. Fine... it'll do that sometimes. Once it booted up again, I started playback of a recorded program and it rebooted again, so that ruled out software update (update for S3, ha!). I ran kickstart and ran the drive through the SMART test and got a FAIL 7 on the extended test. Bummer!

Re ran the test again and got the same error. Looks like my 1TB is on the way out. Ordered a WD20EURS from Amazon. Now I have to dig the old PC out of the closet and figure out how to swap the drive again. It's been a while.

I was debating whether it not it was worth investing another $100 into the box, but since it has lifetime, I went ahead with the purchase. Wise?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:37 PM   #2
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I think it is worth fixing. I wish I had kept my S3 THX. I would probably check the power supply caps for bulging/leaking while you are in there. If you can solder, its an easy $10-$15 fix.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:02 PM   #3
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I think it is worth fixing. I wish I had kept my S3 THX. I would probably check the power supply caps for bulging/leaking while you are in there. If you can solder, its an easy $10-$15 fix.
Here's a photo of what to look for. Be sure to use premium (105C temp rating, low ESR) replacement caps.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...94#post8750894
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #4
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Here's a photo of what to look for. Be sure to use premium (105C temp rating, low ESR) replacement caps.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...94#post8750894
Yes, good advice. If you go that route, I would stick with Panasonic or Nichicon capacitors. Mouser and Digikey are both good sources to purchase.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:40 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by sdsvtdriver View Post
Came home yesterday to find my APC H15 off due to a relay failure. Reset the unit and my S3 boots up and all seems to be well... then it rebooted again. Fine... it'll do that sometimes. Once it booted up again, I started playback of a recorded program and it rebooted again, so that ruled out software update (update for S3, ha!). I ran kickstart and ran the drive through the SMART test and got a FAIL 7 on the extended test. Bummer!

Re ran the test again and got the same error. Looks like my 1TB is on the way out. Ordered a WD20EURS from Amazon. Now I have to dig the old PC out of the closet and figure out how to swap the drive again. It's been a while.

I was debating whether it not it was worth investing another $100 into the box, but since it has lifetime, I went ahead with the purchase. Wise?
Which S3 and is it running at least 11.0k of the TiVo software?

(It's almost certain to be doing so, unless you've already been updated to 11.0m)

When you get that EURS, run WD's long test on it before using it for anything just to be sure.

Then the easiest way would be to do the copy with WinMFS if you've got it and at least XP on that PC.

Alternatively, you could use

dd


or


dd_rescue

from the MFS Live cd v1.4 to do a byte for byte (with repeated attempts at problem sectors on the source drive) copy.

Either way, once you get the 1TB copied to the 2, stop and test it in the TiVo, then if all is well, use WinMFS to expand it.

Copy and expand have to be separate steps for some reason.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:22 PM   #6
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I think it is worth fixing. I wish I had kept my S3 THX. I would probably check the power supply caps for bulging/leaking while you are in there. If you can solder, its an easy $10-$15 fix.
I guess I'd better learn to solder! Fortunately, it appears only one is like that. It's C701.



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Which S3 and is it running at least 11.0k of the TiVo software?

(It's almost certain to be doing so, unless you've already been updated to 11.0m)

When you get that EURS, run WD's long test on it before using it for anything just to be sure.

Then the easiest way would be to do the copy with WinMFS if you've got it and at least XP on that PC.

Alternatively, you could use

dd


or


dd_rescue

from the MFS Live cd v1.4 to do a byte for byte (with repeated attempts at problem sectors on the source drive) copy.

Either way, once you get the 1TB copied to the 2, stop and test it in the TiVo, then if all is well, use WinMFS to expand it.

Copy and expand have to be separate steps for some reason.
It's the TCD648250B. Software version unknown. I'd imagine the latest since it was online all year until yesterday.

Thanks for the refresher on the copy. Going to dig out the ol' PC here shortly.

Last edited by sdsvtdriver : 08-22-2013 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:04 AM   #7
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I went ahead and replaced most of the capacitors that were likely to fail on my S3 OLED even though I only 2 bulging capacitors (and note that between 2 S3 OLED I had different ones bulging). Here's the list that I came up with and replaced.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...93#post9131293

Scott
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:48 AM   #8
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kinda same happened to me ... I was having issues with what I thought was a cable card issue, losing a bunch of channels on one of my TiVos (S3 OLED)

so I moved it downstairs and swapped it with my other one, as Comcast support was blaming my cabling and or signal strength. The one Downstairs was working fine.

It went into a reboot loop. I guess these guys don't like getting rebooted often. Mine are all on UPSs. They never get rebooted. Even when we lose power My generator is up before the UPS battery runs out.

Opening the defective one up I found the bulging Cap C701. I bought a few, and replaced them in all 3 of my S3's. They were all bulging... I bet that will fix it. It fixed mine. All my channels came back and rebooting was no longer a problem.

hang on to that S3 OLED -- it's a keeper!
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:31 AM   #9
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I guess I'd better learn to solder! Fortunately, it appears only one is like that. It's C701. .........
I recommend replacing at least the two or three largest caps, especially if they are the same brand as the bulging one. Additional cost and effort are minimal.

If you are serious about needing to learn to solder, take a look at this:
http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Practic...+to+solder+kit
I suspect Radio Shack may have something similar or even better. Usually if a cheap learn-to-solder kit includes a soldering iron, it isn't a good one. Hopefully you already have one, or buy it separately.

For replacing parts, removing the old solder is perhaps at least as challenging as soldering in the new part. None of it is difficult -- once you have done enough to have a good "feel" for it and some confidence.

I wouldn't recommend learning to solder using the TiVo power supply board. Several other posters have been able to get friends or local electronics repair shops to do the cap replacements -- but I recommend you get the premium parts and supply them. The only source for replacement power supplies is weaknees.com and they cost $100. Check their web site but I think what they supply for your model are "pulls", i.e., removed from other TiVo's and tested.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by HerronScott View Post
I went ahead and replaced most of the capacitors that were likely to fail on my S3 OLED even though I only 2 bulging capacitors (and note that between 2 S3 OLED I had different ones bulging). Here's the list that I came up with and replaced.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...93#post9131293

Scott
I used your post last night when I ordered new caps. Your board was r2 and mine was the original revision, so I compared everything and the parts matched up. I ordered all the ones you did just to have them on hand as the cost was cheap. Thanks for your detailed writeup!
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #11
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kinda same happened to me ... I was having issues with what I thought was a cable card issue, losing a bunch of channels on one of my TiVos (S3 OLED)

so I moved it downstairs and swapped it with my other one, as Comcast support was blaming my cabling and or signal strength. The one Downstairs was working fine.

It went into a reboot loop. I guess these guys don't like getting rebooted often. Mine are all on UPSs. They never get rebooted. Even when we lose power My generator is up before the UPS battery runs out.

Opening the defective one up I found the bulging Cap C701. I bought a few, and replaced them in all 3 of my S3's. They were all bulging... I bet that will fix it. It fixed mine. All my channels came back and rebooting was no longer a problem.

hang on to that S3 OLED -- it's a keeper!
Agreed. I have a friend that's been trying to dump off two S2's and an S3 on me... I think I'm finally going to take them and use the other S3 for parts or whatever... or use it if I can get $99 lifetime on it!

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I recommend replacing at least the two or three largest caps, especially if they are the same brand as the bulging one. Additional cost and effort are minimal.

If you are serious about needing to learn to solder, take a look at this:
http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Practic...+to+solder+kit
I suspect Radio Shack may have something similar or even better. Usually if a cheap learn-to-solder kit includes a soldering iron, it isn't a good one. Hopefully you already have one, or buy it separately.

For replacing parts, removing the old solder is perhaps at least as challenging as soldering in the new part. None of it is difficult -- once you have done enough to have a good "feel" for it and some confidence.

I wouldn't recommend learning to solder using the TiVo power supply board. Several other posters have been able to get friends or local electronics repair shops to do the cap replacements -- but I recommend you get the premium parts and supply them. The only source for replacement power supplies is weaknees.com and they cost $100. Check their web site but I think what they supply for your model are "pulls", i.e., removed from other TiVo's and tested.
I'm half serious. I've soldered in the past... the way past! I no longer have any (decent) soldering equipment so I ordered a pencil iron from Amazon, some wick, a pump, and some Kester solder. I ordered the caps from digikey (Panasonics). I think I can do this!
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:22 AM   #12
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Agreed. I have a friend that's been trying to dump off two S2's and an S3 on me... I think I'm finally going to take them and use the other S3 for parts or whatever... or use it if I can get $99 lifetime on it!



I'm half serious. I've soldered in the past... the way past! I no longer have any (decent) soldering equipment so I ordered a pencil iron from Amazon, some wick, a pump, and some Kester solder. I ordered the caps from digikey (Panasonics). I think I can do this!
You may run into a problem with that pencil iron not being high enough wattage for the job, depending on what wattage it is.

If so, Radio Shack (about which I rarely say nice things) has a thing that looks like a pencil iron but has a big red squeeze bulb on it that's made for de-soldering which might come in handy.

And be sure to observe polarity when replacing those caps.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:49 PM   #13
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........
I'm half serious. I've soldered in the past... the way past! I no longer have any (decent) soldering equipment so I ordered a pencil iron from Amazon, some wick, a pump, and some Kester solder. I ordered the caps from digikey (Panasonics). I think I can do this!
I think you will do fine!
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:18 PM   #14
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You may run into a problem with that pencil iron not being high enough wattage for the job, depending on what wattage it is.

If so, Radio Shack (about which I rarely say nice things) has a thing that looks like a pencil iron but has a big red squeeze bulb on it that's made for de-soldering which might come in handy.

And be sure to observe polarity when replacing those caps.
40 watt. 900F. It was tough finding something with a small tip but with decent wattage. Think that'll work ok? I read that 750F is optimum for 'though the hole' soldering, but everything 750F had large tips. :/

Thanks for the suggestion on the bulb. I have an RS nearby if needed. Polarity noted.

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I think you will do fine!
Thanks!

Just finished the WD diags on my 1TB drive. Came back with failures. Opted to NOT repair and will be setting up the new drive later on.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #15
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My opinion: 40 W should be enough.
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:46 PM   #16
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I forgot to ask... there's some white adhesive on this capacitor gluing it to adjoining caps. How is this best removed? Blade?
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:54 PM   #17
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I forgot to ask... there's some white adhesive on this capacitor gluing it to adjoining caps. How is this best removed? Blade?
Try fingers first, then a blade, and if that doesn't work, a blowtorch.
I'm not sure why it's there. Noise reduction?
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:33 PM   #18
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probably to hold them in place when they blow! lol
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:15 PM   #19
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I forgot to ask... there's some white adhesive on this capacitor gluing it to adjoining caps. How is this best removed? Blade?
If you have some wire cutters, the kind called diagonal cutters, or "dikes", you can use them to "shatter" it.

Or big pliers.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:34 PM   #20
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i do have those, thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #21
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Tools and caps came today. The results are not good so far.

I replaced the bulging cap (701) and plugged it in. Got the 4 lights and the welcome screen. This screen would stay for a while then all lights would go out and the unit would reboot. Being as I had the new 2TB drive in, I wasn't sure if it was the drive or the power supply (Broke my own "fix one thing at a time" rule). I swapped in the 1TB and plugged it in and got ticking from the PS. When I removed power, the ticking sound faded with more time in between ticks. I reseated the power to the mainboard and the drive connectors and powered up again. Ticking gone, but now I only have a black screen. Fan spins. No lights. Sign of bad power supply (but what part?)

I pulled the power supply and removed the new cap from 701 again, cleaned the hole, and soldered it in again. Same result. Not sure where to go from here. I have another cap for 701 (ordered extra), not sure if I damaged it by heat or something else is bad. Bad 701 if I recall causes reboots, not lack of video/lights so I'm hesitant to try that without asking here first. All other caps look flat. No leakage.

Suggestions?

On another note, I picked up an old S3 this weekend for parts. It does have a bulging 701 on the power supply unfortunately, but it is good enough to send to weaknees if all else fails. I don't want to solder anything on that board until I resolve my S3's issues, else I end up with 2 bad power supplies and I don't think weaknees takes those ones in return :/

EDIT: Put the other S3's power supply in mine and it boots (albeit without a green light on the front panel...) even with the distended cap.

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Old 08-27-2013, 03:41 AM   #22
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Tools and caps came today. The results are not good so far.

I replaced the bulging cap (701) and plugged it in. Got the 4 lights and the welcome screen. This screen would stay for a while then all lights would go out and the unit would reboot. Being as I had the new 2TB drive in, I wasn't sure if it was the drive or the power supply (Broke my own "fix one thing at a time" rule). I swapped in the 1TB and plugged it in and got ticking from the PS. When I removed power, the ticking sound faded with more time in between ticks. I reseated the power to the mainboard and the drive connectors and powered up again. Ticking gone, but now I only have a black screen. Fan spins. No lights. Sign of bad power supply (but what part?)

I pulled the power supply and removed the new cap from 701 again, cleaned the hole, and soldered it in again. Same result. Not sure where to go from here. I have another cap for 701 (ordered extra), not sure if I damaged it by heat or something else is bad. Bad 701 if I recall causes reboots, not lack of video/lights so I'm hesitant to try that without asking here first. All other caps look flat. No leakage.

Suggestions?

On another note, I picked up an old S3 this weekend for parts. It does have a bulging 701 on the power supply unfortunately, but it is good enough to send to weaknees if all else fails. I don't want to solder anything on that board until I resolve my S3's issues, else I end up with 2 bad power supplies and I don't think weaknees takes those ones in return :/

EDIT: Put the other S3's power supply in mine and it boots (albeit without a green light on the front panel...) even with the distended cap.
Use that extra cap to replace 701 on the power supply that works.

Since weaknees expects power supplies returned for the "core charge" to not work and need fixing I don't think it matters.

As far as I know they don't accept them for repair, they sell you a working one and give you a partial refund when you send them the old one (which they can then repair without being on a deadline of having an impatient customer calling every day), kind of like radiators and water pumps on a car.

I'm assuming that you haven't yet had any dealings with them power-supply wise.

If you get that second supply squared away, maybe we can work a deal on the ticking original.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:35 AM   #23
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Use that extra cap to replace 701 on the power supply that works.

Since weaknees expects power supplies returned for the "core charge" to not work and need fixing I don't think it matters.

As far as I know they don't accept them for repair, they sell you a working one and give you a partial refund when you send them the old one (which they can then repair without being on a deadline of having an impatient customer calling every day), kind of like radiators and water pumps on a car.

I'm assuming that you haven't yet had any dealings with them power-supply wise.

If you get that second supply squared away, maybe we can work a deal on the ticking original.
The original doesn't tick anymore. It just doesn't work to power up the Tivo. It worked before I replaced 701, so I'm nervous about replacing 701 on my backup.

You're correct that I haven't dealt with Weaknees before w/r/t power supplies. I wonder if they'll still take one as a "core" if it's been soldered against. I'll have to find out.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:17 PM   #24
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I replaced 701 on the non functioning power supply with my spare. same issue. no video / lights. Not sure what I borked on the PS, but I guess I didn't overheat my first new 701 cap.

Would these other caps near 701 appear to be distended? Ignore my board burn, pls

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:28 AM   #25
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Bulges aren't apparent in the photos, but the high viewing angle makes slight bulges hard to detect.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:16 PM   #26
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Bulges aren't apparent in the photos, but the high viewing angle makes slight bulges hard to detect.
Better pics. http://imgur.com/a/0Ld28
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:24 PM   #27
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I don't see even slight bulging in those.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:50 PM   #28
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Ok, just making sure I wasn't overlooking anything.

So my Tivo is back up on the parts machine's power supply. It has a distended 701 but it is working for now. There's an electronics repair place nearby and I'm going to take the parts S3 and the now non functioning power supply to them and have them replace the caps with the parts I have. I either damaged the board or am damaging the caps when I solder them in, so we'll see what they say.

Appreciate everyone's responses and will update the thread for fun.
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:47 PM   #29
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Ok, just making sure I wasn't overlooking anything.

So my Tivo is back up on the parts machine's power supply. It has a distended 701 but it is working for now. There's an electronics repair place nearby and I'm going to take the parts S3 and the now non functioning power supply to them and have them replace the caps with the parts I have. I either damaged the board or am damaging the caps when I solder them in, so we'll see what they say.

Appreciate everyone's responses and will update the thread for fun.
Be sure they understand the need to use Low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees C.
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"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:32 PM   #30
sdsvtdriver
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Be sure they understand the need to use Low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees C.
I'm supplying the caps... or I was going to...

So I put the PS I replaced 701 on into my parts S3 to take it to the shop so they have a complete unit to test the PS in. The parts S3 will boot far enough to test the PS (Bad HD). I take it upstairs and plug it in to confirm it still at least powers on the fan and ... it boots. Light come on... video on the screen, etc.

Maybe I didn't let the cap cool down enough post soldering before testing?

Go figure.
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