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Old 08-20-2013, 03:32 PM   #1
sdsvtdriver
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Still need a tuning adapter?

I haven't found anything in the specs... will this box still need a tuning adapter or did they finally build in SDV support?

If the former, they lost me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:34 PM   #2
Philmatic
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You didn't look very hard, yes it is required and no it is not TiVo's fault and this is unlikely to change ever.

The only purpose for SDV is to complicate and irritate TiVo/PC users. The solution is to abandon it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:35 PM   #3
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SDV is a technology enforced by the cable provider and is done differently in different regions. Just like they can't build in CableCards because they're provider specific they can't build in the SDV device.

If you want to get upset at someone it's the FCC & cable companies who force the need for SDV hardware by not providing a more efficient method.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:39 PM   #4
sdsvtdriver
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Tired of the missed recordings and gray screens. Bummer.

Thanks.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsvtdriver View Post
I haven't found anything in the specs... will this box still need a tuning adapter or did they finally build in SDV support?

If the former, they lost me.
Exactly which SDV protocol do you suggest they implement? There is no standard. And why should those of us who don't need it be forced to pay for it?
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:44 PM   #6
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my TAs have been extremely stable, have not had to reboot them in many months
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:02 PM   #7
lpwcomp
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The actual question should be - Does your TA support 6 tuners?
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #8
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Didn't realize there was different SDV implementations regionally.. thanks for the info.

lpwcomp - good question. as well as the one I have works, I'm lucky if it supports 1! It's the Cisco STA1520. Their data sheet doesn't specify. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...28/7013834.pdf
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
The actual question should be - Does your TA support 6 tuners?
Do the Cox Phoenix/Vegas TAs support 6 tuners? I think so but can't confirm it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:37 PM   #10
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The 6-tuner firmware update for the Cisco STA1520 came out a few years ago, so you should be fine (I'm assuming Moto TAs got a similar update, I believe it was FCC-mandated).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=482537
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:28 PM   #11
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IIRC, the FCC only mandated that a TA support 4 or the number supported by cable co supplied equipment, whichever is greater.

I did find a quote but have been unable to find the actual FCC document that it is presumably from:

Quote:
To address the problems with tuning adapters identified by commenters, the satisfactory access standard will require cable operators to ensure that retail devices are able to tune at least as many switched digital channels as that operator’s most sophisticated operator-supplied set-top box or four simultaneous channels, whichever is greater.
This might have been modified at some point in the two years since it went into affect.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:40 PM   #12
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I think all CableCARDs and TAs are now required to support up to 6 tuners. But we'll find out real soon if some aren't.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:13 PM   #13
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I still am hoping for some sort of a check and balance from the tivo,
This is going to sound silly, but something as simple as checking to see if there's signal once a show was switched too. For example, I want to record something on the syfy channel, if it tunes into the syfy channel but there is no signal, try tuning in again.

9 times of of ten, the switched video just needs a second attempt at tuning it in.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:55 PM   #14
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I still am hoping for some sort of a check and balance from the tivo,
This is going to sound silly, but something as simple as checking to see if there's signal once a show was switched too. For example, I want to record something on the syfy channel, if it tunes into the syfy channel but there is no signal, try tuning in again.

9 times of of ten, the switched video just needs a second attempt at tuning it in.
Though less likely, tuning failures can happen even when SDV is not being used, so tuning retries would be of benefit to everyone. It would also be nice if it verified the channel ID if it is available.

The FCC documents provide some interesting reading. TWC claimed that:

a. There were 0 problems with TAs

and

b. Even if there were, they were under absolutely no obligation to provide third party devices access to SDV channels.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post

The FCC documents provide some interesting reading. TWC claimed that:

a. There were 0 problems with TAs

and

b. Even if there were, they were under absolutely no obligation to provide third party devices access to SDV channels.
How do i report TWC for fraudulent reporting? I know most of the local TW cable guys due to the stupid TAs
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:23 AM   #16
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How do i report TWC for fraudulent reporting? I know most of the local TW cable guys due to the stupid TAs
Oh, I think the FCC knows they were lying, they just don't care all that much. This was mostly during the hearings where they were deciding whether or not to mandate back-channel IP for SDV control (which is what TiVo wanted). They concluded that it would be too expensive for MSOs that had already deployed substantial numbers of TAs.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa View Post
I still am hoping for some sort of a check and balance from the tivo,
This is going to sound silly, but something as simple as checking to see if there's signal once a show was switched too. For example, I want to record something on the syfy channel, if it tunes into the syfy channel but there is no signal, try tuning in again.

9 times of of ten, the switched video just needs a second attempt at tuning it in.
This has been known to TiVo for at least 3 years, i.e., back when the TiVo Series Three HD model was still being sold new. (I can prove this if necessary.) They have been completely mum on the subject. If there is some technical reason that software-based tuning retries were not feasible, they could have at least told us that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Oh, I think the FCC knows they were lying, they just don't care all that much. This was mostly during the hearings where they were deciding whether or not to mandate back-channel IP for SDV control (which is what TiVo wanted). They concluded that it would be too expensive for MSOs that had already deployed substantial numbers of TAs.
Basically there just aren't enough people using CableCARD and Tuning Adapters to provide the political justification to overcome the MSO's justifiable economic arguments. If the FCC actually did force deployment of a better back channel system, guess who would pay for the considerable costs?

The real 800 lb gorilla in the room is how are we going to pay for the infrastructure to give us what we really want and need: fiber into the home and an IP back channel, or even better, IPTV instead of Cable TV.

Especially problematic is how to deliver that to rural areas. In the late 1940's most farms didn't have electricity even though build out in cities started 50 years earlier.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:12 PM   #18
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I'm running through the guided setup on my new Roamio Pro and it popped up and said my tuning adapter does not support 6 tuners. My provider is Cox and the tuning adapter is a Motorola, I'll check out the model number later and post back.

I never watch or record any channels that use the tuning adapter anyway but I'm hoping when all of the updates and done it will work or Cox can update and/or provide a tuning adapter that works with 6 tuners.

I'll report my results back when it's all said and done. All of the updates and such seem to be taking forever but my patience/excitement ratio is getting the better of me at the moment.

- Kelly
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:59 PM   #19
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Report Cox to the FCC. It's a mandate that all TRs support AT LEAST 6 tuners now (it's in the TR specification document).

Anyone having problems with channels not tuning needs to call their provider and get lines checked, not necessarily in your house either (can also be a problem on the main feeds). The Tuning Adapter has a line on the RF Status screen that shows how many "Retrans" it has run into - retran means it failed to send the tuning request and had to send it a second time, which isn't supposed to happen.

I've been fighting with TWC on this for over two weeks trying to get my retrans fixed... Frustrating doesn't even begin to explain it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:05 PM   #20
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Report Cox to the FCC. It's a mandate that all TRs support AT LEAST 6 tuners now (it's in the TR specification document).
Do you have a cite for that? All I can find that is official is FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4).

Quote:
(4) Effective August 1, 2011, provide,
through the use of a commonly used
interface and published specifications
for communication, CableCARD-reliant,
firmware-upgradable navigation
devices the ability to tune simultaneously
as many switched-digital channels
as the greatest number of streams
supported by any set-top box provided
by the cable operator, or four simultaneous
channels, whichever is greater;
I also found FCC 76.1205
Revised as of August 21, 2013
on a non gov site, but that paragraph was not altered.
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:05 PM   #21
mikevangorkom
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TiVo Roamio Plus with a Motorola MTR-700 Tuning Adapter from Time Warner Cable in Southern California.

Upon connection I received the message:

-------

Can't use all tuners

The TiVo box has six tuners, but the connected Tuning Adapter supports less than six. As a result, you won't be able to use all of the tuners on your TiVo box.

Please contact your cable provider if you would like to use all six tuners on this DVR.

-------

Any suggestions? Is there a firmware update I can do myself?
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #22
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On the MTR-700 you will need at least firmware "Platform Version 01.37" to get 6 tuners. Go into Settings/Account&System Information/Tuning Adapter/Tuning Adapter Diagnostics, and then it will go to that funny looking gray screen, scroll down to "code modules" and hit select, and you should see what firmware you are on there.
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