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Old 08-20-2013, 12:27 PM   #1
jacbec
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Roamio Wi-Fi

Why in the world didn’t TiVo use 802.11ac wi-fi in Roamio? I am updating all of my Apple toys to the new standard. I asked TiVo chat and they were ho-hum, 802.11n works fine. So does my 1964 Pontiac.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:34 PM   #2
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The CPU probably doesn't have that much transfer bandwidth (just as the Premiere is limited to roughly 80mbps), so it wouldn't get used to its full potential. But it will be interesting to see what kind of speed we can get out of a Roamio.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:40 PM   #3
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most likely because 802.11ac is not a finalized standard yet.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:57 PM   #4
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I am updating all of my Apple toys to the new standard

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Old 08-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #5
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These responses are pretty weak, guys. Lack of CPU power and draft spec status? Broadcom announced its 802.11ac chips in Jan 2012, so there was plenty of time to plan for supporting it, including any CPU, RAM or other architectural needs. While the standard hasn't been completely finalized, it's at the final stages and isn't expected to change much at this point, which is why there are many routers and devices already on the market that support it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:13 PM   #6
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What does 802.11ac provide that you think a TiVo needs?
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:49 PM   #7
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TiVo hardware has never really been accused of being cutting edge. 802.11ac is just barely starting to hit the market, very, very few people are using it. It's still very much bleeding edge technology and only companies that make bleeding edge hardware are using it.

That being said if you really want to use 802.11ac you can always use an Ethernet bridge.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:26 PM   #8
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So is 802.11n fast enough to stream shows Tivo to Tivo?

I'd like to get the base Roamio for upstairs, adding a big (8-bay) antenna in the attic, and use it as my everyday OTA recorder.

Then stream shows to my (original model) Premiere downstairs (already connected via ethernet to the wireless router), possibly adding digital cable later.

I'd rather stream than copy because ATSC MPEG-2 generates huge files.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:32 PM   #9
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It should be able to handle 1 stream OK as long as you don't have a bunch of other traffic on your wifi network and you have a good signal.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:48 PM   #10
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Thanks, ordered it & got a free Stream via code:GROUPER.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:54 PM   #11
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802.11n is plenty fast for anything TiVo needs to do, including room to room streaming. The problem with Wireless in general (And why TiVo doesn't allow MRS over WiFi) is that 2.4GHz is an extremely congested band. Moving to 802.11n over 5GHz would alleviate that issue somewhat and the way 802.11ac alleviates that issue further is by restricting it to ONLY work on 5GHz and increasing the number of channels that are bonded together to make it work.

There is no discovery that led to the design of 802.11ac, they switched modulations, required MORE spectrum and restricted it to 5GHz only. Not exactly rocket science.

The upshot is that the new Roamio line supports 802.11 a/b/g/n on BOTH the 2.4GHz AND 5GHz bands.

Last edited by Philmatic : 08-20-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:29 PM   #12
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Thanks, ordered it & got a free Stream via code:GROUPER.
I used that code and they gave me $50 off. Maybe because I already had a stream in my account.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:30 PM   #13
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So is 802.11n fast enough to stream shows Tivo to Tivo?

I'd like to get the base Roamio for upstairs, adding a big (8-bay) antenna in the attic, and use it as my everyday OTA recorder.

Then stream shows to my (original model) Premiere downstairs (already connected via ethernet to the wireless router), possibly adding digital cable later.

I'd rather stream than copy because ATSC MPEG-2 generates huge files.
802.11n is more than fast enough. You just need to have a properly setup network. Unfortunately most people don't. A properly setup Wi-Fi network has multipls APs and the APs will also not be saturated and will not using congested channels. The vast majority of home networks were not setup to meet that criteria and that is typically why they have issues.

When I tested my TiVo Premieres and Minis with wireless Bridges, From a user perspective, the experience was identical to when they were connected to Ethernet or MoCA.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:37 PM   #14
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The upshot is that the new Roamio line supports 802.11 a/b/g/b on BOTH the 2.4GHz AND 5GHz bands.
I think you meant that last "b" to be an "n".
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:07 PM   #15
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I used that code and they gave me $50 off. Maybe because I already had a stream in my account.
It gives you $50 off the Stream and another $80 off the TiVo, so the Stream is essentially free.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #16
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I think you meant that last "b" to be an "n".
Yes, sorry. Corrected in the original post.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #17
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I thought in order to use stream or mini the TiVo needed a wired Ethernet connection. Am I mistaken?
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:13 PM   #18
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These responses are pretty weak, guys. Lack of CPU power and draft spec status? Broadcom announced its 802.11ac chips in Jan 2012, so there was plenty of time to plan for supporting it, including any CPU, RAM or other architectural needs. While the standard hasn't been completely finalized, it's at the final stages and isn't expected to change much at this point, which is why there are many routers and devices already on the market that support it.

And why didn't they give us Quad Core processors, gigs of Ram. 20 tuners Keyboards.... etc....

Because of cost and at this point adoption is likely less than .5% and noone needs it....
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:32 PM   #19
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I thought in order to use stream or mini the TiVo needed a wired Ethernet connection. Am I mistaken?
It's not "supported" meaning they won't support you if you call them, but it works.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #20
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I thought in order to use stream or mini the TiVo needed a wired Ethernet connection. Am I mistaken?
They want the connection between the TiVo DVR and the mini or stream to be hardwired. The reason is that the MPEG2 show travels over that connection and needs both high bandwidth and a clean connection. The connection to the iPad or streaming client can be less robust because the show is transcoded to AVC which requires much less bandwidth.

On the Roamio Plus or pro the connection between the disk and transcoding chip is all inside the same box, so it just isn't an issue anymore.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #21
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On the Roamio Plus or pro the connection between the disk and transcoding chip is all inside the same box, so it just isn't an issue anymore.
The Roamio Plus/Pro can still Stream shows form other Premieres so the network still matters in that case.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:50 PM   #22
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Any guesses when the ghostware will be available to WATCH RECORDED SHOWS ON THE GO?
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:56 PM   #23
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Tom Rodgers said "Fall"
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:17 PM   #24
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They want the connection between the TiVo DVR and the mini or stream to be hardwired. The reason is that the MPEG2 show travels over that connection and needs both high bandwidth and a clean connection. The connection to the iPad or streaming client can be less robust because the show is transcoded to AVC which requires much less bandwidth.

On the Roamio Plus or pro the connection between the disk and transcoding chip is all inside the same box, so it just isn't an issue anymore.
MPEG2 is low bandwidth. OTA is at most only 19Mb/s. That is not alot of bandwidth.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:57 PM   #25
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MPEG2 is low bandwidth. OTA is at most only 19Mb/s. That is not alot of bandwidth.
For sustained throughput on a packet based network it can be. The actual real world throughput of G is only about 20Mbps. N is only about 40-50Mbps. So if you try to use a TiVo to it's full potential over wifi by streaming to multiple Minis at once and you could easily run into the limit. By contrast MoCa is about 120-150Mbps.

This is why I'm really, really, surprised the low end Roamio doesn't have MoCa. I thought all TiVos would have MoCa from here on out. Maybe it's some sort of conflict between MoCa and the ATSC tuners?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:14 AM   #26
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Tom Rodgers said "Fall"
Given Tivo's track record, that could be "Fall 2014".

At least he didn't say "imminent" - that's Rodgers-speak for "probably never".
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:27 AM   #27
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He actually said "that lights up this fall", so it was pretty clear their intent is to have it in a couple months. Although you never really know. We've seen Fall features slip to Spring before.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:38 AM   #28
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For sustained throughput on a packet based network it can be. The actual real world throughput of G is only about 20Mbps. N is only about 40-50Mbps. So if you try to use a TiVo to it's full potential over wifi by streaming to multiple Minis at once and you could easily run into the limit. By contrast MoCa is about 120-150Mbps.

This is why I'm really, really, surprised the low end Roamio doesn't have MoCa. I thought all TiVos would have MoCa from here on out. Maybe it's some sort of conflict between MoCa and the ATSC tuners?
Does anyone know how many receive/transmit channels the Roamio has? The more it has the higher the bandwidth it can utilize over wireless.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:00 AM   #29
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MPEG2 is low bandwidth. OTA is at most only 19Mb/s. That is not alot of bandwidth.
I could have said high bandwidth when compared with AVC. But yes, in comparison with uncompressed video it is very low bandwidth. Of course uncompressed video is not travelling over anyone's Ethernet, MoCA, or Wireless out of any TiVo provided box currently so I didn't think I needed to mention that.

I still believe TiVo wants to keep MPEG2 streams on a wire and is less concerned with AVC streams. I also know that a well set-up wireless network can be made to work well with both. TiVo just doesn't seem to want to deal with getting people's wireless set up well.

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Old 08-21-2013, 11:17 AM   #30
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So is 802.11n fast enough to stream shows Tivo to Tivo?

I'd like to get the base Roamio for upstairs, adding a big (8-bay) antenna in the attic, and use it as my everyday OTA recorder.

Then stream shows to my (original model) Premiere downstairs (already connected via ethernet to the wireless router), possibly adding digital cable later.

I'd rather stream than copy because ATSC MPEG-2 generates huge files.
it is plenty fast enough.....i have been doing it for a long time.
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