TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Roamio DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 08-20-2013, 11:45 AM   #1
Fofer
༺♥༻
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 68,951
TC CLUB MEMBER
Roamio features that will (apparently) make their way to Premieres

Going through the FAQs here, I see:





(highlighting added by me.)

"Functionality is exactly the same," eh? So does this mean a 2-Tuner Premiere, along with a TiVo Stream (both of which I have,) will eventually allow me to do streaming away from home as well? Fingers crossed.

I also note this, and the curious wording:



That the note specifically mentions both TiVo Premiere as well as Premiere 4 Tuner makes me think that perhaps, now with dynamic tuner allocation, that a 2-Tuner Premiere might be able to connect to a TiVo Mini. Yes, I realize that they may be talking about one Premiere doing Multi-Room Streaming with another Premiere. But that this FAQ doesn't specifically note that a 4-Tuner Premiere is required to work with a Mini, makes me wonder, hopefully, if that is no longer a valid requirement.

Oh TiVo, please, don't screw this up for us. We've been disappointed for too long and I'm not going to buy a whole new TiVo (and deal with failing at transferring over my library of recordings) just to get features we should have had from the start.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- a list of some favorite browser add-ons that help make TCF even more enjoyable!
Fofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 12:04 PM   #2
Philmatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 463
Yes, the Stream uses the exact same transcoding chip that is used in the Roamio Plus and Pro models. The Tivo Stream will continue being a viable platform and will maintain feature parity with the integrated streaming chips in the newer Roamio.

In fact, the reviewers who tested the out of home streaming used the TiVo Stream with a special update that enabled it.
Philmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #3
Fofer
༺♥༻
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 68,951
TC CLUB MEMBER
That's good to hear. I have no plans to upgrade to a Roamio but if its release means my 2-Tuner Premiere with 2TB drive + TiVo Stream gets new features (outside streaming, and perhaps, compatibility with a TiVo Mini) then I'm a happy camper!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- a list of some favorite browser add-ons that help make TCF even more enjoyable!
Fofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 04:18 PM   #4
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
I wouldn't count on the compatibility with the Mini. The Mini was advertised heavily as requiring a 4 tuner TiVo, it was even printed on the box. So even with dynamic tuner allocation they may decide to hold the line on that one to entice people to upgrade.

Although I hope I'm wrong. I have a 4 tuner TiVo, but my wife is the one who uses the Mini most often and she has her own 2 tuner Premiere. It would be nicer for her if I could pair the Mini with her 2 tuner instead of it having to be paired to mine and then her having to go an extra menu deep to watch her shows.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 04:39 PM   #5
Philmatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 463
It's likely that the Mini will still require a 4 Tuner TiVo DVR to pair to. The relaxing of the language is probably due to the fact that TiVo no longer offers any DVRs that have less than 4 tuners, so they don't need to specify that anymore.
Philmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 04:44 PM   #6
Fofer
༺♥༻
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 68,951
TC CLUB MEMBER
I wonder if the Premieres will get the DIAL (ie: Chromecast) ability that the Roamio has, too.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- a list of some favorite browser add-ons that help make TCF even more enjoyable!
Fofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 04:45 PM   #7
Philmatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 463
Highly unlikely, that requires the Opera Browser HTML5 framework and I can almost guarantee you that will not get within 100 yards of the Premiere.
Philmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #8
Johncv
Registered User
 
Johncv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chula Vista, CA
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philmatic View Post
Highly unlikely, that requires the Opera Browser HTML5 framework and I can almost guarantee you that will not get within 100 yards of the Premiere.
Why?
__________________
Johncv

HDTiVo
27-inch iMac with i7 quad core processor
Johncv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:12 PM   #9
Philmatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johncv View Post
Why?
Because the Premiere is a 3 year old device running an incredibly slow processor that can't possibly be tasked with running a browser. It couldn't even run the Flash UI well and that was designed and released with the Premiere.

HTML 5 has some significant CPU requirements, and the Roamio line satisfies those requirements, the Premiere does not.
Philmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:15 PM   #10
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
I agree. We wont see any of the HTML5 based stuff back ported to the Premiere.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:23 PM   #11
Fofer
༺♥༻
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 68,951
TC CLUB MEMBER
I guess the question really being asked then is, why does DIAL (essentially, the slinging of a URL for MP4-based video streaming from the receiver device) require an HTML5 framework?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- a list of some favorite browser add-ons that help make TCF even more enjoyable!
Fofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:26 PM   #12
dswallow
Save the Moderatоr
 
dswallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Branch, NJ, USA
Posts: 48,913
TC CLUB MEMBER
I wonder what "Coming Soon" means in terms of real-world time intervals. This is TiVo we're talking about, remember.
__________________
¯\_(ツ)_/¯****************
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dswallow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:26 PM   #13
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
I would think they would want to port the HTML5 apps to the Premier line. Is there a technical reason to prohibit that?
__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:36 PM   #14
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer View Post
I guess the question really being asked then is, why does DIAL (essentially, the slinging of a URL for MP4-based video streaming from the receiver device) require an HTML5 framework?
It doesn't require it. But the current AdobeAir based apps would all need to be updated to support it individually. TiVo hasn't really had the best luck with keeping those apps up to date which is why they are switching to HTML5 in the first place. With HTML5 the developers can reuse the same app for multiple platforms so it's much more likely to get updated.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #15
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
I would think they would want to port the HTML5 apps to the Premier line. Is there a technical reason to prohibit that?
The CPU in the Premiere doesn't have enough horsepower to run the browser needed to run HTML5 apps. The only reason it can even run the Flash apps is because there is a special part of the CPU designed specifically to run Flash, and even that is terrible.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #16
Beryl
Registered User
 
Beryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,824
Nice thread. I think it is time to put lifetime on my unused HD and sell it with my lifetime HDLX. The S3 technology needs to be replaced.
__________________
HD XL
Premiere
Beryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #17
Fofer
༺♥༻
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 68,951
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
It doesn't require it. But the current AdobeAir based apps would all need to be updated to support it individually. TiVo hasn't really had the best luck with keeping those apps up to date which is why they are switching to HTML5 in the first place. With HTML5 the developers can reuse the same app for multiple platforms so it's much more likely to get updated.
Right, I get that, but DIAL (the protocol behind Chromecast) isn't a front-facing app per se, it is a service running in the background. It merely needs to be running invisibly (like a daemon,) advertising its availability to the Chrome instances (and iOS/Android apps) on the network, so they can cast to it.

That being said, this is TiVo, and all bets are off when it comes to "what new features from Roamio make their way to the old Premiere line?" It's entirely feasible (and likely) that we'll get NOTHING.

Me, I'd be happy if all I got was the ability to use my Premiere and Stream outside the house.

If I could use a Mini with my 2-tuner Premiere, I'd be over the moon, but I'm not holding my breath.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- a list of some favorite browser add-ons that help make TCF even more enjoyable!
Fofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 09:54 PM   #18
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 16,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philmatic View Post
In fact, the reviewers who tested the out of home streaming used the TiVo Stream with a special update that enabled it.
So one thing I'm not 100% sure on yet. Is it really only out-of-home *streaming* or is it streaming OR downloading?

Even within my house, I *usually* download a show, so I have faster skip around ability (but I then often watch the show WHILE it's downloading too). I do streaming sometimes.

I don't have a citation at the moment, but it seemed like I remember earlier reading different reviews disagreeing with each other about whether you could download outside the home or not.
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 10:35 PM   #19
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
The CPU in the Premiere doesn't have enough horsepower to run the browser needed to run HTML5 apps. The only reason it can even run the Flash apps is because there is a special part of the CPU designed specifically to run Flash, and even that is terrible.
I suppose that surprises me - I know flash is a resource hog so I expected that it would handle the HTML apps better then the flash apps...

I know the processor performance is just below the iPhone 3GS.

When trying to open an App Store (or any individual app), the number of units deployed is a huge driver.


__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 10:42 PM   #20
Philmatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
So one thing I'm not 100% sure on yet. Is it really only out-of-home *streaming* or is it streaming OR downloading?

Even within my house, I *usually* download a show, so I have faster skip around ability (but I then often watch the show WHILE it's downloading too). I do streaming sometimes.

I don't have a citation at the moment, but it seemed like I remember earlier reading different reviews disagreeing with each other about whether you could download outside the home or not.
I think the downloading would be dependent on whether or not the copyright bit is set, no different the the current limitations within the home. So it is both.
Philmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #21
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer View Post
Right, I get that, but DIAL (the protocol behind Chromecast) isn't a front-facing app per se, it is a service running in the background. It merely needs to be running invisibly (like a daemon,) advertising its availability to the Chrome instances (and iOS/Android apps) on the network, so they can cast to it.

That being said, this is TiVo, and all bets are off when it comes to "what new features from Roamio make their way to the old Premiere line?" It's entirely feasible (and likely) that we'll get NOTHING.
I don't think we'll get any of the special app features. I think we'll see the additional HD screens, DTA for Minis and maybe the slight aesthetic changes they made to the UI. But other then that expect all new features to be exclusive to the Roamio. TiVo is all about the upsell, that's what keeps them in business. (well and patent lawsuits )
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 12:34 AM   #22
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
I suppose that surprises me - I know flash is a resource hog so I expected that it would handle the HTML apps better then the flash apps...

I know the processor performance is just below the iPhone 3GS.

When trying to open an App Store (or any individual app), the number of units deployed is a huge driver.

You have to remember that on an iPhone there is no multi-tasking. Basically 100% of the resources are dedicated to whatever app is running in the foreground. A TiVo is the exact opposite. The vital background tasks for recording and streaming take priority over all else. The amount of resources dedicated to apps is miniscule.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:07 AM   #23
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I don't think we'll get any of the special app features. I think we'll see the additional HD screens, DTA for Minis and maybe the slight aesthetic changes they made to the UI. But other then that expect all new features to be exclusive to the Roamio. TiVo is all about the upsell, that's what keeps them in business. (well and patent lawsuits )
Really? I don't see any sign that it's about the upsell. They lose substantial money on most of their hardware sales, and that money is never recouped for those folks (about half) that go monthly - they would be paying the same in any case. They do get some extra money from the likes of tivocommunity folks who go lifetime, but we're not their average customers.

I agree with your overall assessment of what's going to happen, but I think it's much more expense avoidance, and keeping focused on how things are changing than it is trying to sell replacement units units.
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo Roamio:Felix TiVo Premiere:Bob TiVo XL4:Fred TiVo HDXL:Sharon TiVoHD:Susan
CrispyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:29 AM   #24
bmgoodman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow View Post
I wonder what "Coming Soon" means in terms of real-world time intervals. This is TiVo we're talking about, remember.
If you consider Tivo's "coming soon" on the geologic time scale, you will *never* be disappointed!
bmgoodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #25
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Really? I don't see any sign that it's about the upsell. They lose substantial money on most of their hardware sales, and that money is never recouped for those folks (about half) that go monthly - they would be paying the same in any case. They do get some extra money from the likes of tivocommunity folks who go lifetime, but we're not their average customers.
Most people who buy a new TiVo pass their old one on to another customer, so TiVo ends up with two customers where they previously had one. Plus for lifetime units the revenue is written off after 4 years, so if they can get those customers to buy a new TiVo every 4 years then they get some new revenue on the books. In the long run it may not be a huge boon for them, but in the short term it's probably a big influx of cash.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 01:03 PM   #26
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Most people who buy a new TiVo pass their old one on to another customer, so TiVo ends up with two customers where they previously had one. Plus for lifetime units the revenue is written off after 4 years, so if they can get those customers to buy a new TiVo every 4 years then they get some new revenue on the books. In the long run it may not be a huge boon for them, but in the short term it's probably a big influx of cash.
66 months.
sbiller is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #27
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
Hmmm... Has it always been that high? Or did they extend it when they raised the price of lifetime?
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 01:53 PM   #28
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Hmmm... Has it always been that high? Or did they extend it when they raised the price of lifetime?
Effective November 1, 2011, we have extended the period we use to recognize product lifetime subscription revenues from 60 months to 66 months for product lifetime subscriptions.
sbiller is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 02:41 PM   #29
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
Effective November 1, 2011, we have extended the period we use to recognize product lifetime subscription revenues from 60 months to 66 months for product lifetime subscriptions.
Yes, and it was 48 months for a long time before the 60 months and I think I remember 3 years when they first started.

I've never known whether this was a change demanded by the accountants, or whether it was TiVo wanting to lessen the number of non-paying subscriptions they report to the analysts every quarter. The shorter time periods were an advantage during the period where they had to show some capability of breaking even (ie, before any court settlements).
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo Roamio:Felix TiVo Premiere:Bob TiVo XL4:Fred TiVo HDXL:Sharon TiVoHD:Susan
CrispyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 02:48 PM   #30
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,880
OK I remember it being 4 years somewhere along the lines. I don't pay that close of attention to it, so I didn't realize it had gone up (twice) since then.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |