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Old 08-05-2013, 08:17 AM   #1
Emacee
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Question Aereo: Can't Beat 'em, Join 'em!

There are discussions about Aereo as a "threat" to Tivo. My question is: Has Tivo looked at working with and supporting Aereo. Tivo supports other streaming services: Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Xfinity. It seems like Tivo's functionality would work with Aereo, as well. Why fight it? Why not offer an additional option to Tivo users?

Does anyone have any information on whether Tivo is talking to Aereo?
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:39 AM   #2
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No but it seems like a no brainer since some Tivo units don't support OTA. I think Aereo needs to do some significant expanding first. Tivo doesn't have many subscribers as it is. The number of people with both Tivo and Aereo is probably very very tiny.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:13 AM   #3
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If Aereo can "re-transmit" OTA signals without having to pay the broadcast station anything, shouldn't that provide legal precedent to do away with the current TWC-CBS mess?

In both cases, someone who lives in the area covered by the broadcaster is paying someone else to handle their "antenna-ing" for them.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:43 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
If Aereo can "re-transmit" OTA signals without having to pay the broadcast station anything, shouldn't that provide legal precedent to do away with the current TWC-CBS mess?

In both cases, someone who lives in the area covered by the broadcaster is paying someone else to handle their "antenna-ing" for them.
Yep. What do you do when someone takes what you're giving away free and then sells it to third parties? One thing that might justify retransmission fees is if the Cable Cos are inserting their own commercials. Do they do that?
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:06 PM   #5
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Yep. What do you do when someone takes what you're giving away free and then sells it to third parties? One thing that might justify retransmission fees is if the Cable Cos are inserting their own commercials. Do they do that?
No the cable companies cannot insert their own commercials. The law was pretty one side in the TV station's favor. It basically allowed the TV Station to decide if they were going to force the cable company to rebroadcast their station or try and get the cable company to pay them for the right to rebroadcast, at the same time the cable company was not allowed to bring in an out of market station broadcasting the same network, thus preventing any competition.

In any event anytime a cable/satellite company has to pay more for any channel there is a near 100% assurance that over time that cost is past to the consumer. If CBS gets what they want ABC, NBC, & FOX will follow and of course they will up the costs to other cable and satellite companies as soon as possible.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:21 PM   #6
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There's no point in a merger except to get a programming source for TiVo.

Aereo is doing the DVR in the cloud. There's no need to add DVR in a DVR. There's no value add there.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:49 PM   #7
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There's no point in a merger except to get a programming source for TiVo.

Aereo is doing the DVR in the cloud. There's no need to add DVR in a DVR. There's no value add there.
I would think there would be value for both TiVo, Aereo and their customers if TiVo's DVRs had the ability to stream and/or record the OTA content being provided through the Aereo service.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:56 PM   #8
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There's no point in a merger except to get a programming source for TiVo.

Aereo is doing the DVR in the cloud. There's no need to add DVR in a DVR. There's no value add there.

Aereo would provide HD quality broadcast channels to Tivo users -- no need for them to buy, install, and tweak settings with their own antenna.

It could also help Tivo move to a cloud based DVR system -- or it could be a transition point allowing Tivo users to slingbox style view from away from home. Meaning no need to transfer Tivo shows to an iPad or laptop; you could stream recordings from home as you want.

I think Tivo + Aereo could be a good thing; however, Aereo is going to be bought quickly by a major player. Most likely, it will be Dish.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:21 PM   #9
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I guess my original post led some to think "merger." I wasn't thinking of that (although it's always a possibility). I was thinking Tivo should support Aereo streaming as it does Netflix or Amazon (and has not merged with either of them). And except for the newer four-tuner model and the DirecTV model, Tivos do support OTA. Seems like Aereo might offer some advantages over an in-house (or on-house) antenna.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:55 PM   #10
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Many customers could just hook up a cheap indoor antenna to their TV and pick up a few over the air channels.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:08 PM   #11
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Many customers could just hook up a cheap indoor antenna to their TV and pick up a few over the air channels.
I think we can be pretty sure that those customers are not the Aereo subcribers.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
If Aereo can "re-transmit" OTA signals without having to pay the broadcast station anything, shouldn't that provide legal precedent to do away with the current TWC-CBS mess?
I know you have quotes there, but to explain for others, Aereo's own argument is that they have a separate antenna for EACH subscriber, so their argument is that they are not re-transmitting, they are (now my words) renting you an antenna.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:44 AM   #13
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I guess my original post led some to think "merger." I wasn't thinking of that (although it's always a possibility). I was thinking Tivo should support Aereo streaming as it does Netflix or Amazon (and has not merged with either of them). And except for the newer four-tuner model and the DirecTV model, Tivos do support OTA. Seems like Aereo might offer some advantages over an in-house (or on-house) antenna.
Um, no way - Tivo does everything it can to avoid pissing off the content creators and providers (not to mention getting in bed with the MSOs), there's no way they're going to take on the controversy that is Aereo right now.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:20 AM   #14
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Um, no way - Tivo does everything it can to avoid pissing off the content creators and providers (not to mention getting in bed with the MSOs), there's no way they're going to take on the controversy that is Aereo right now.
I believe there are a few more court battles, and then Aereo is free to thrive. Disruptive companies are always fun to watch.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:35 AM   #15
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I hope they come to the Orlando area. Since I went cable & dish free, my wife has been griping abotu live TV...specifically she couldn't watch The Bachelorette Finale live last night...couldn't wait a day or two to be on hulu. WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Aereo would have solved that problem.

For anyone who receives Orlando Stations, please go to Aereo and click on the service area request, and request Orlando!

I'm looking at getting an antenna right now, but I'm so far away from the transmitters it will be difficult.

Thanks
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:32 AM   #16
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I hope they come to the Orlando area. Since I went cable & dish free, my wife has been griping abotu live TV...specifically she couldn't watch The Bachelorette Finale live last night...couldn't wait a day or two to be on hulu. WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Aereo would have solved that problem.

For anyone who receives Orlando Stations, please go to Aereo and click on the service area request, and request Orlando!

I'm looking at getting an antenna right now, but I'm so far away from the transmitters it will be difficult.

Thanks
-Mike
Either of these websites will help in your antenna choice:
antennaweb.org
tvfool.com

Primary issues you need to consider:
1. Are any desired stations VHF (vs. more common UHF)? VHF requires larger antenna elements like the old rabbit ears.
2. Can you use a directional antenna or do you need an omni-directional one.? Directional gives you more bang per size and buck IF all your desired stations are in one direction.
3. Will an indoor antenna suffice? Depends on height, obstructions and (most important) distance to towers.

In most cases antenna amplifiers are not the answer to poor signal, because they amplify the noise as well as the signal.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:46 AM   #17
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I may need a tower, so my main problem is I need a way to find an antenna contractor.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:46 AM   #18
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Well I got two antennas, have to return one since it didn't work well.

I can now get most local channels, with the exception of my NBC affiliate. (I really don't care about the OTA shopping channels).

But I also haven't played with directionalizing it much.

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Old 08-07-2013, 12:23 PM   #19
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Well I got two antennas, have to return one since it didn't work well.

I can now get most local channels, with the exception of my NBC affiliate. (I really don't care about the OTA shopping channels).
What did you go with?
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:47 PM   #20
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I know you have quotes there, but to explain for others, Aereo's own argument is that they have a separate antenna for EACH subscriber, so their argument is that they are not re-transmitting, they are (now my words) renting you an antenna.
Right. And this was affirmed by a recent ruling, that so long as it was the viewer's antenna, whether it was on his roof connected with coax or if the signal was being sent to him via internet, it made NO DIFFERENCE. Aero is on solid legal foundation now. The ruling concludes it is LEGAL. This will never go to the Supreme Court.

This is contrast to haw cable and sat distribute their OTA local channels. They get the signal from the TV studios Master Control or from a single antenna strategically placed, and there is no attempt or means to make the stream PRIVATE, that and the separate laws that govern sat and cable on the terms of accessing and retransmitting of OTA's leave it in the position of paying for retransmission fees, unless a station opts for Must Carry, but any station with any value programming is going to chose to negotiate for retransmission fees.

However, I can see the sat and cable companies having meetings on setting up their own Aero type farms or services and could very well free themselves from the burden of retransmission fees, but that won't be for a while yet.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:44 PM   #21
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What did you go with?
I went with ClearStream 2V.

I had a $35 indoor Radio Shack one that was rated very highly also, but considering my distance from the towers, indoor really wasn't much of an option. So that one went back.

This once properly mounted works pretty well. I'm probably 60 miles from the towers. Flat terrain...probably only one building in my way (and it's the apartment complex right behind me).

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:40 PM   #22
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This is contrast to haw cable and sat distribute their OTA local channels. They get the signal from the TV studios Master Control or from a single antenna strategically placed, and there is no attempt or means to make the stream PRIVATE,
Though it seems to me that they could argue that since it's essentially one big long wire between you and the antenna, even though the wire forks off a zillion times, the cable company isn't making a copy either.

(Whereas, if it's a show on a hard drive, and each person has an internet stream to the server, clearly the apache process or whatever is doing something SEPARATE for each user.)
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:00 PM   #23
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I went with ClearStream 2V.

I had a $35 indoor Radio Shack one that was rated very highly also, but considering my distance from the towers, indoor really wasn't much of an option. So that one went back.

This once properly mounted works pretty well. I'm probably 60 miles from the towers. Flat terrain...probably only one building in my way (and it's the apartment complex right behind me).

-Mike
If you are in the Melbourne FL zip code, antennaweb.org says the towers are about 45 miles away, all located about half way between Orlando and Titusville. You would have to be about 15 miles further south for it to be 60 miles. For most of these towers, a "medium directional antenna" (i.e., what you selected) is recommended. But for four of them, including Fox, CW and PBS stations, a "Medium Directional Antenna with Preamp" is recommended. These include 18.1, 45.1 and 24.1 . How do those come in?
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:13 PM   #24
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If you are in the Melbourne FL zip code, antennaweb.org says the towers are about 45 miles away, all located about half way between Orlando and Titusville. You would have to be about 15 miles further south for it to be 60 miles. For most of these towers, a "medium directional antenna" (i.e., what you selected) is recommended. But for four of them, including Fox, CW and PBS stations, a "Medium Directional Antenna with Preamp" is recommended. These include 18.1, 45.1 and 24.1 . How do those come in?
Yeah, it's probably less than 60 miles.

Those channels come in pretty good, even with my antenna facing due west.
It's only NBC (2) that I need to point north-west to get, since it's VHF.
And I'm too lazy to mount it outside...right now it's in a west-facing window. But I think I'll be mounting it pretty soon. I'm just not that handy with tools.

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Old 08-19-2013, 04:48 PM   #25
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Yeah, it's probably less than 60 miles.

Those channels come in pretty good, even with my antenna facing due west.
It's only NBC (2) that I need to point north-west to get, since it's VHF.
And I'm too lazy to mount it outside...right now it's in a west-facing window. But I think I'll be mounting it pretty soon. I'm just not that handy with tools.

-Mike
Sounds like you've got it under control. As they say in the foundry that makes cast iron toilets: "Forge a head!".
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:29 PM   #26
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Sounds like you've got it under control. As they say in the foundry that makes cast iron toilets: "Forge a head!".
Yeah, pretty much.
Now, onto my next challenge of trying to find soccer games to watch online. NBC Sports extra requires cable/satellite signon. And questionable sites like front line require (or look like they require) additional software, which makes me wary.

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