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Old 08-08-2013, 03:14 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
Call me VERY disappointed in this news. Its a Premiere with a slightly faster interface and less features. Its not even significantly smaller.
I was hoping the OTA model would come with Stream capability for when Android support finally arrives in 2016. The reason I've put up with such a buggy Netflix app on my Premieres is because I don't want to have yet another box to buy, plug in, and maintain.

I suppose this makes sense for Tivo given hard drive size isn't much to differentiate models any more. If Netflix and Amazon streaming arrives on the Minis and these Roamio models, then I will likely upgrade.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:30 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post
Dave just sent out a tweet about possible pricing.

$199 and $399 with a September 30th release date.

I know in the past we discussed $199 for the 4 tuner as a sensible goal for TiVo.

$399 is hopefully the 3TB model, but I would guess it is the base 6 tuner with the Pro going for $499 like the Elite launched.
My guess back in post 25 was:
"My guess for price is:

4 tuner = $199 or $250
6 tuner $250 or $300
6 tuner XL model $399 or $450

With Service costs at the current level."
Looks like the same ball park. I will likely pickup a new 4 tuner and sell 2 of my existing ones - hope it has better OTA reception than my Premiere.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:12 PM   #603
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I'm betting it is. This is something their MSO partners want as well, so I'm sure they're getting pressure for it on all sides.
FWIW... it looks like DTA is still on track.


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Old 08-08-2013, 07:33 PM   #604
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I agree. I'm pretty certain it will support the Mini. It may not have embedded MoCA.
Or will it support the mini like the current two tuner Premieres do? I can view the content from my OTA only Premiere on my two Minis. But I can't pair the Minis to the two tuner Premiere.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:36 PM   #605
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Dave just sent out a tweet about possible pricing.

$199 and $399 with a September 30th release date.

I know in the past we discussed $199 for the 4 tuner as a sensible goal for TiVo.

$399 is hopefully the 3TB model, but I would guess it is the base 6 tuner with the Pro going for $499 like the Elite launched.

Holy crap!! If the six tuner box comes in at only $399 I will be doing back flips. That would be less than what I paid for my launch Elite and even my second Elite I bought six months later. And both of those were with 10% off coupons. Unfortunately BestBuy is stingy with coupons now, so I doubt I'll have one to use on the purchase of the six tuner TiVo.

Plus September 30th? That would be the day after my birthday. If that is the release date then I know what birthday present I'm getting for myself.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:50 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Or will it support the mini like the current two tuner Premieres do? I can view the content from my OTA only Premiere on my two Minis. But I can't pair the Minis to the two tuner Premiere.
I would be seriously shocked if the 4 tuner box did not support being a Mini host and equally as shocked if it did not support MoCa. I think people are reading a bit too much into what's printed on that sticker.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:52 PM   #607
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Here are my guesses:

I essentially agree with everything Dave has in his post, with the exception being that I think the Plus and Pro models are identical in every way, with the only difference being that the Pro will have a 3TB hard drive versus the Plus's 1TB drive. So they will both have MoCA, built-in streaming and both run the Broadcom 7425.

Pricing will be as follows:

TiVo Roamio (TCD846500)
4 Tuner, Digital Cable & OTA
500GB HD
$199

TiVo Roamio Plus (TCD848000)
6 Tuner, Digital Cable
1000GB HD
$299

TiVo Roamio Pro (TCD840300)
6 Tuner, Digital Cable
3000GB HD
$399
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #608
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According to the mfstools source, the MFS volume header (aka superheader) uses an unsigned 64-bit field to hold the total number of sectors. I use the same structure definitions in DvrBARS.

Even if you assume that it's actually a signed number and that a sector will always mean 512 bytes, that's almost 4 zettabytes. I don't think the current MFS filesystem poses any practical limitations.
OK, so then why the current ~2.2 TB limit per drive?
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:26 PM   #609
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OK, so then why the current ~2.2 TB limit per drive?
*sigh*
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:30 PM   #610
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OK, so then why the current ~2.2 TB limit per drive?
I'm guessing they are currently using MBR (Master Boot Record) partitioning which has a 2TB limit versus GPT (GUID Partition Table) partitioning?

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Old 08-09-2013, 07:10 AM   #611
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I don't see why it wouldn't support the Mini. But the other stuff, yeah.
No MOCA, no mini. Still might but Moca is Tivo's preferred connection for the mini.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:17 AM   #612
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I would be seriously shocked if the 4 tuner box did not support being a Mini host and equally as shocked if it did not support MoCa. I think people are reading a bit too much into what's printed on that sticker.
I hope you are right. I had hoped for a smaller form factor but that is minor. Any idea what hard drive sizes it will come with? Idealy I would like to replace my home theater Premiere 2TB with a new Roamio first. The others are all streaming boxes and overflow tuners for when the HT box is busy and they will likely not get replaced until later.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:45 AM   #613
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I'm just hoping that the top-of-the-line model isn't above $399 to keep in line with their current pricing for the top model.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:48 AM   #614
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I hope you are right. I had hoped for a smaller form factor but that is minor. Any idea what hard drive sizes it will come with? Idealy I would like to replace my home theater Premiere 2TB with a new Roamio first. The others are all streaming boxes and overflow tuners for when the HT box is busy and they will likely not get replaced until later.
Per Zatz, the 4 Tuner Roamio will have a 500GB HD but it will support an external hard drive as well.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:43 AM   #615
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Ridiculous to expect the supposedly most cost sensitive customers to spend $100+ on a hard drive upgrade when it would have cost Tivo less than $15 to include the larger drive in the box to begin with.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:57 AM   #616
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OK, so then why the current ~2.2 TB limit per drive?
Quote:
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I'm guessing they are currently using MBR (Master Boot Record) partitioning which has a 2TB limit versus GPT (GUID Partition Table) partitioning?Scott
It uses the ancient Apple Partition Map scheme, not MBR. The current 2.2TB limit per physical drive or partition is something in the OS.

All of the MFS partitions are treated as one big logical drive by the TiVo software, even if they're spread across multiple physical drives. For a stock Premiere that means it's composed of what linux thinks are four separate drives (/dev/sda10 /dev/sda11 /dev/sda12 /dev/sda13).
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:00 AM   #617
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Tivo owners are not the most cost-sensitive customers. For many that can afford a Tivo, the $100 is worth the convenience. For others of us, we will happily do it ourselves, if only for the redundancy of a drive on the shelf.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:03 AM   #618
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Ridiculous to expect the supposedly most cost sensitive customers to spend $100+ on a hard drive upgrade when it would have cost Tivo less than $15 to include the larger drive in the box to begin with.
$15? The last 1TB drive I bought was around $50 on sale and the 3TB drive I got on sale was $110. There is much more retail price disparity between a 1TB drive and a 3TB drive than $15.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:04 AM   #619
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Ridiculous to expect the supposedly most cost sensitive customers to spend $100+ on a hard drive upgrade when it would have cost Tivo less than $15 to include the larger drive in the box to begin with.
I tend to agree the difference between 500 GB and 1TB at this point is very little. TiVo should go with just 2 drive sizes (like now) and it should be 1TB and 3TB
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #620
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Right now there's actually a really high markup between the 2TB and 3TB drives. At least with the WD AV drives.

2TB (WD20EURS) on Amazon is only $93 where as the 3TB (WD30EURS) is $147. Amazingly the 1 and 1.5 TB drives from the EURS family are actually more expensive that the 2TB version.

They do have an AV drive that's $76 at 1TB. Their 500GB AV drive $65 so there isn't a big mark-up to go from 500GB to 2TB on the retail side let alone to 1TB. We're looking at an $11 retail markup from 500GB to 1TB. I feel like any DVR that wants to call itself modern or premium in any way should have at least 1TB in it. And Tivo sells their product as a premium DVR over the basic cable company model.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:32 AM   #621
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I tend to agree the difference between 500 GB and 1TB at this point is very little. TiVo should go with just 2 drive sizes (like now) and it should be 1TB and 3TB
I don't disagree.

However I am guessing that the 4 tuner model has increased costs due to the addition of OTA. There could also be an issue where they have leftover units from their previous orders depending on how many units they needed to get the prices where they wanted.

We could see a 1TB model a year from now similar to how they released a refreshed Premiere.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #622
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Right now there's actually a really high markup between the 2TB and 3TB drives. At least with the WD AV drives.

2TB (WD20EURS) on Amazon is only $93 where as the 3TB (WD30EURS) is $147. Amazingly the 1 and 1.5 TB drives from the EURS family are actually more expensive that the 2TB version.

They do have an AV drive that's $76 at 1TB. Their 500GB AV drive $65 so there isn't a big mark-up to go from 500GB to 2TB on the retail side let alone to 1TB. We're looking at an $11 retail markup from 500GB to 1TB. I feel like any DVR that wants to call itself modern or premium in any way should have at least 1TB in it. And Tivo sells their product as a premium DVR over the basic cable company model.
Retail Hard drive cost may have only a small correlation to high volume OEM Hard Drive cost.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:49 AM   #623
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Do you suppose the new TiVOs will also include a consistent user interface from top to bottom? I was pretty surprised during my 2 weeks with an XL4 that the new HD user interface is only for the top couple of levels. Anything else and you're time-warped back a decade (also surprising given that they claim 400+ in R&D - really??).
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:45 AM   #624
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I'm not sure a 4 tuner, 500GB TiVo for 199 does anything for me. I mean, am I really willing to rebuy hardware just for 2 tuners on one TV? The whole conflict thing just doesn't happen that often and since I have 2 TVs and 2 TiVos I just record it in the other room instead. Even making the UI snappier probably isn't enough to justify rebuying hardware when I have working hardware already.

Come on, TiVo, you have to give me a reason to want to upgrade. Give me an android app and built in stream. Give me Amazon Instant Streaming. Give me DIAL support. Give me a windows 8 app for streaming from the TiVo (or just a regular windows app, whatever).

Giving me 2 more tuners and faster hardware is not worth $200. If my premiere or S3 broke, sure, I'd buy one of these happily. But it's not an incentive to upgrade from what I have right now.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:48 AM   #625
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I'm not sure a 4 tuner, 500GB TiVo for 199 does anything for me. I mean, am I really willing to rebuy hardware just for 2 tuners on one TV? The whole conflict thing just doesn't happen that often and since I have 2 TVs and 2 TiVos I just record it in the other room instead. Even making the UI snappier probably isn't enough to justify rebuying hardware when I have working hardware already.

Come on, TiVo, you have to give me a reason to want to upgrade. Give me an android app and built in stream. Give me Amazon Instant Streaming. Give me DIAL support. Give me a windows 8 app for streaming from the TiVo (or just a regular windows app, whatever).

Giving me 2 more tuners and faster hardware is not worth $200. If my premiere or S3 broke, sure, I'd buy one of these happily. But it's not an incentive to upgrade from what I have right now.
TiVo is way more interested in new customers versus customers upgrading from their current TiVo's.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:48 PM   #626
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FCC waiver granted

TiVo received the waiver it requested from the FCC for its new retail hardware.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-13-1740A1.pdf
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:14 PM   #627
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I'm not sure a 4 tuner, 500GB TiVo for 199 does anything for me. I mean, am I really willing to rebuy hardware just for 2 tuners on one TV? The whole conflict thing just doesn't happen that often and since I have 2 TVs and 2 TiVos I just record it in the other room instead.

I'm OTA supplemented with Netflix streaming and Amazon downloads/iPad streaming. I have 2 lifetimed Premieres, one with an upgraded hard drive. I also have a lifetimed TivoHD.

I was thinking the same thing about not sure if it is worth it to upgrade, but the advantages are significant to buy a Roamio and add a Mini or two.
  1. 4 tuners on one box. No more conflicts even during the busy season.
  2. All shows in one place. I don't have to remember which box has which episodes. I don't have to manage multiple season passes.
  3. Faster experience. The new processor should be amazing. It needs to be quick and all signs say it will be.
  4. Stream capable (and Android eventually). It will be nice to have the ability to Stream built in. I hope this is built in to even the OTA model.
  5. Cost savings. The TivoHD and the Premiere boxes consume a lot more electricity than a Mini does. While not a ton of money, I'd rather save it than spend it on old hardware.

Looking forward to learning what the Roamio boxes consume electricity wise.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:27 PM   #628
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TiVo received the waiver it requested from the FCC for its new retail hardware.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-13-1740A1.pdf
That was an interesting read. If anyone has any questions as to what TiVo thinks of analog tuners, this tells you everything you need to know.

28 Waiver Request at iii, 12-13. TiVo states in its Waiver Request that it tracked consumer response to the previous
waiver it received, and only 0.2 % of subscribers commented to TiVo about the absence of analog tuning ability, and
only 0.05% of customers cancelled their subscriptions as a result. Waiver Request at ii.
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:00 PM   #629
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FWIW... it looks like DTA is still on track.

does this mean if there was a conflict it would auto send the recording request to the other box?
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:09 PM   #630
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does this mean if there was a conflict it would auto send the recording request to the other box?
No, this means that you can pair a TiVo Mini and it will dynamically select and release a live tuner when in use.
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