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Old 08-02-2013, 03:20 PM   #61
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The Mini is a reflection of the 4 tuner box, so I'm not sure if it would work at all if the 4 tuner box were removed. Probably not.

So the big question is will the release of DTA allow the Mini to use a 2 tuner box as a host. Technically it should be possible, but I have no idea if TiVo will actually allow it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:27 PM   #62
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I think TiVo has made it pretty clear - in writing - that it is "Compatible with any TiVo DVR with four or more tuners"

I think you are tilting at windmills if you think that policy is going to change even with DTA.

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Old 08-02-2013, 03:33 PM   #63
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I agree, sadly. They are very, very good at delivering disappointments, quite late. I don't know why I remain surprised by how consistently TiVo manages to disappoint their customers in this way.

All I wanted from the TiVo Mini was an easy, user friendly way to watch my NP list in another room. I'm doing that now with loooong component cables and the Bluetooth Slide remote, but a Mini (developed and executed properly) would have been a better solution. And it would have worked in a third room (my office.)

Ah well. Farewell TiVo, it's been a long run.

From here on out, any new TV devices I buy will be engineered by companies that know what they're doing. AppleTV, Roku, Chromecast, and heck, even "smart" Blu Ray players and TV's are getting more use out of me today.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #64
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Well the packaging could change after DTA is released, but you're probably right. At this point I'd say the chances of it working with a 2 tuner unit is pretty slim. Especially with new devices on the horizon, the lowest version of which has 4 tuners.

Edit: On the plus side indications are that the next gen 4 tuner box should be cheaper then the current one and be a LOT faster. So maybe that'll be enough incentive to get you to upgrade.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:16 PM   #65
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I thought I read here that once the mini is paired with a 4 tuner, it can be removed and still work with your 2 tuner? Do a search and I think you'll find it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #66
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I thought I read here that once the mini is paired with a 4 tuner, it can be removed and still work with your 2 tuner? Do a search and I think you'll find it.
Some guy associated a mini with a P4 and then disconnected the P4 and the Mini continued to work streaming from other P2's on his network.

This is a far cry from saying that the Mini will maintain that functionality for any resonable amount of time. It just says that the TiVo doesn't do a real-time check for a P4 when using it.

What happens when you reboot the P2 or the Mini? What happens when your network goes down and the units need to reauthenticate with each other.

Others may jump in and say but.. but...

My opinion? Best case is it may work for a little while, but I expect you would be very dissapointed in short order when the Mini stopped working - and you can never allocat a P2 tuner for live TV.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:03 PM   #67
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I just tried it. I disconnected my Elite from the network and then rebooted and forced a call on the Mini. And it still works with my other TiVos. However every single time I went to My Shows it threw an error saying the Elite was missing that I had to dismiss, so that was annoying. Plus the discovery bar had a constant error about the Elite being missing similar to the one you get on a TiVo when it's not connected to the internet. Also I'm not sure if there is some sort of time bomb that would trigger a problem if the Mini didn't connect to the host for X number of days. Not willing to leave my Elite disconnected from the network that long.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:05 AM   #68
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Well the packaging could change after DTA is released, but you're probably right. At this point I'd say the chances of it working with a 2 tuner unit is pretty slim. Especially with new devices on the horizon, the lowest version of which has 4 tuners.

Edit: On the plus side indications are that the next gen 4 tuner box should be cheaper then the current one and be a LOT faster. So maybe that'll be enough incentive to get you to upgrade.
Okay but the current 4 tuner box doesn't have a OTA antenna input, does it? The 2 tuner Premier does, and I want to keep that. Will the next gen 4 tuner box have it?
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #69
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Okay but the current 4 tuner box doesn't have a OTA antenna input, does it? The 2 tuner Premier does, and I want to keep that. Will the next gen 4 tuner box have it?
Yes.

I have heard a rumor (zatz) that during setup you can choose either OTA or Cablecard with the new 4 tuner units. So yes, but not at the same time - if the rumors are true.
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:17 PM   #70
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I just got a notification from Amazon that my Chromecast should arrive 8/21. They've stopped taking orders, though.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:37 AM   #71
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I was going to start a thread asking if Chromecast can one day be baked into Tivo. Is this article basically talking about that?

Another solution or workaround is more HDMI inputs. I ran across a Chinese media box based based on Android, and I thought it had a very unique feature. It had an HDMI input like the Xbox One. I thought it was a big deal that Xbox came up with this feature, yet here's a no name android box with this same feature. It would be cool if the Tivo had an extra HDMI input. The two things I use most in my home is the Tivo and the Chromecast, but it doesn't have that ALL IN ONE feeling when you manage multiple controllers and switch TV inputs. If I can go to my chromecast within my tivo interface, that would be awesome. But since that's hardware, that ship has sailed. I can only hope for a software update that would bake chromecast into tivo. Do you guys see this ever happening?
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:30 AM   #72
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I was going to start a thread asking if Chromecast can one day be baked into Tivo. Is this article basically talking about that?

Another solution or workaround is more HDMI inputs. I ran across a Chinese media box based based on Android, and I thought it had a very unique feature. It had an HDMI input like the Xbox One. I thought it was a big deal that Xbox came up with this feature, yet here's a no name android box with this same feature. It would be cool if the Tivo had an extra HDMI input. The two things I use most in my home is the Tivo and the Chromecast, but it doesn't have that ALL IN ONE feeling when you manage multiple controllers and switch TV inputs. If I can go to my chromecast within my tivo interface, that would be awesome. But since that's hardware, that ship has sailed. I can only hope for a software update that would bake chromecast into tivo. Do you guys see this ever happening?
GoogleTV had this feature baked in and then later merged Google TV into "Android for TV" to try and get them on a more similar codebase.

we've discussed before that since there is a browser inside of the TiVo already (Opera) that DIAL and GoogleCast capabilities are at TiVo's disposal if they WANTED to go that route. It's code and software (and working with google obv) to make it happen. No hardware required.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:33 PM   #73
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This sort of stuff will help with the OTT content, but it's not going to really affect the core DVR functionality. Even if they did support Chromecast or Roku through the TiVo Stream, it still can't replace a Mini, as you're going to introduce a ton of lag into the interface, you wouldn't have the same remote, and the video quality isn't going to be as good (transcoded).
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:14 AM   #74
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I was going to start a thread asking if Chromecast can one day be baked into Tivo. Is this article basically talking about that?
The Premier and Roamio units both support the DIAL protocol which allows you to pick videos in the Netflix and YouTube apps on your portable device and then cast it to the TV through the TiVo. Basically it launches the app on the TiVo and starts playing the video you selected, then gives you limited control over the app from your device. (i.e. Scrubbing, pause, play etc...)
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:06 PM   #75
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It had an HDMI input like the Xbox One. I thought it was a big deal that Xbox came up with this feature
I think that's giving an AWFUL lot of credit to Xbox. (I have nothing against Xbox or MS, btw.... well, except putting out buggy stuff a lot.)

While I admit it's not EXACTLY the same, simply being able to use a VCR as passthrough when turning it off (or I had one where you could simply turn the video output off separately from the VCR itself) is _vaguely_ similar to this kind of video passthrough.

I don't doubt there are many other devices that have had this sort of 'live' passthrough long before Xbox One too.. (Heck, an external closed caption decoder comes even closer than my VCR example.)

But similarly, I use my XS32 as a 'video switcher' for my TV most of the time since it's MUCH faster than switching HDMI inputs on the TV.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:17 AM   #76
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Dan203 - the minis support that as well.

mattack - yeah, like grakthis said, GoogleTV devices have a HDMI input, and can passthru/overlay/window the signal. I wish there was a version of the Chromecast that did that, having to switch inputs is a pain. Having an "embedded chromecast" in the Tivo (or GoogleTV) would serve the same purpose, although I doubt either of those things would happen.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:18 PM   #77
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The Premier and Roamio units both support the DIAL protocol which allows you to pick videos in the Netflix and YouTube apps on your portable device and then cast it to the TV through the TiVo. Basically it launches the app on the TiVo and starts playing the video you selected, then gives you limited control over the app from your device. (i.e. Scrubbing, pause, play etc...)
Yeah, I do use that sometimes without switching over to my chromecast. The youtube has this strange white line in the upper right corner. Does not appear when using the real chromecast. I mainly use Chromecast for accessing my Plex Media server in the garage. Plus, there is a bootleg movie streaming app that is much better than Netflix. There is so much you can do with the chromecast. The best $35 ever spent.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:27 PM   #78
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This sort of stuff will help with the OTT content, but it's not going to really affect the core DVR functionality. Even if they did support Chromecast or Roku through the TiVo Stream, it still can't replace a Mini, as you're going to introduce a ton of lag into the interface, you wouldn't have the same remote, and the video quality isn't going to be as good (transcoded).
It's not about replacing the mini. It's about having a truly ALL IN ONE. If my Roamio has chromecast baked in, I would still need my Mini in another room. And I would love to be able to access chromecast through the Mini as well. If a little $35 dongle stream without lagging, why wouldn't the tivo hardware be able to handle it? As for remote, the chromecast is controlled by your smartphone.

The only time there is lagging with chromecast is when you're not casting, but mirroring. When you mirror your chrome tab from your PC, it sucks because your pc is doing all the processing. This is the workaround for Amazon Prime, but it sucks. In Chrome Beta, there is now an option to mirror your entire desktop. So you no longer have to drag compatible movie files into the chrome tab, you can play virtually any file type in your WMP, VLC, etc. and mirror your desktop to chromecast. But like I said, it sucks.

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Old 03-01-2014, 02:55 PM   #79
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It's not about replacing the mini. It's about having a truly ALL IN ONE. If my Roamio has chromecast baked in, I would still need my Mini in another room. And I would love to be able to access chromecast through the Mini as well. If a little $35 dongle stream without lagging, why wouldn't the tivo hardware be able to handle it? As for remote, the chromecast is controlled by your smartphone.
TiVos record content in their native format, which is typically MPEG-2 at about 15Mbps. When you stream to a Mini you're pushing that full size stream across you network. A Chromecast is streaming from internet based sources which are compressed using H.264 and typically max out at about 6Mbps. (6Mbps is Netflix "super HD", regular HD is almost 1/2 that) These internet streaming services also use adaptive encoding techniques where they can automatically lower the resolution or bitrate of the video dynamically if your network is having trouble keeping up with the stream. The TiVo Stream can recode the video to a much lower bitrate that streams better over wifi, but the transcoding part takes time so there is a lag when interacting with the stream so the experience isn't as smooth as it is when using a Mini.

So basically the answer to your question is... Apples and oranges. Although with the right apps the Mini could do the same things as a Chromecast but the Chromecast could never do the same thing as a Mini.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:12 PM   #80
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It's not about replacing the mini. It's about having a truly ALL IN ONE. If my Roamio has chromecast baked in, I would still need my Mini in another room. And I would love to be able to access chromecast through the Mini as well. If a little $35 dongle stream without lagging, why wouldn't the tivo hardware be able to handle it? As for remote, the chromecast is controlled by your smartphone.

The only time there is lagging with chromecast is when you're not casting, but mirroring. When you mirror your chrome tab from your PC, it sucks because your pc is doing all the processing. This is the workaround for Amazon Prime, but it sucks. In Chrome Beta, there is now an option to mirror your entire desktop. So you no longer have to drag compatible movie files into the chrome tab, you can play virtually any file type in your WMP, VLC, etc. and mirror your desktop to chromecast. But like I said, it sucks.
By the time TiVo bakes anything in, version 3 of that thing will be available cheaply. Hence, I'd rather have separate devices. I don't mind if TiVo tries and fails, like they do now with anything that doesn't involve content coming through linear cable, but I'm still going to use separate devices, for maximum functionality of all the devices...

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TiVos record content in their native format, which is typically MPEG-2 at about 15Mbps. When you stream to a Mini you're pushing that full size stream across you network. A Chromecast is streaming from internet based sources which are compressed using H.264 and typically max out at about 6Mbps. (6Mbps is Netflix "super HD", regular HD is almost 1/2 that) These internet streaming services also use adaptive encoding techniques where they can automatically lower the resolution or bitrate of the video dynamically if your network is having trouble keeping up with the stream. The TiVo Stream can recode the video to a much lower bitrate that streams better over wifi, but the transcoding part takes time so there is a lag when interacting with the stream so the experience isn't as smooth as it is when using a Mini.

So basically the answer to your question is... Apples and oranges. Although with the right apps the Mini could do the same things as a Chromecast but the Chromecast could never do the same thing as a Mini.
Exactly. It's two rather different things. It doesn't affect your point, but Comcast is 12mbps, Verizon is up to 18mbps, so everything has to be designed to 18mbps. Unfortunately, no OTA stations use the full 18mbps anymore, as they have a gazillion subchannels.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:08 PM   #81
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Dan203 - the minis support that as well.

mattack - yeah, like grakthis said, GoogleTV devices have a HDMI input, and can passthru/overlay/window the signal. I wish there was a version of the Chromecast that did that, having to switch inputs is a pain. Having an "embedded chromecast" in the Tivo (or GoogleTV) would serve the same purpose, although I doubt either of those things would happen.
Google is cooking up stuff for DIAL and GoogleCast. I promise you. ChromeCast has been too successful for Google to stop there. More GoogleCasting devices are coming.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:07 PM   #82
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Google is cooking up stuff for DIAL and GoogleCast. I promise you. ChromeCast has been too successful for Google to stop there. More GoogleCasting devices are coming.
Yeah, Cromecast support will surely be built into some type of STB and possibly TVs in the future.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:18 PM   #83
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DIAL support is already there, at least for some (Samsung and maybe other) TV's...
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:15 PM   #84
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DIAL support is already there, at least for some (Samsung and maybe other) TV's...
As mentioned above TiVo added DIAL to both the Roamio and Premiere TiVos too.
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