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Old 07-31-2013, 12:05 PM   #31
Rob Helmerichs
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Yeah, I was talking the old series.
I don't believe there was ever any discussion at the BBC about filming the old series in HD...
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:25 PM   #32
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Original Star Trek bridge railings were just raw 2x4 pieces painted red. If you look closely to some of the alert stations not shown much (Like Scotty's Bridge Station to the RIGHT of the elevator door), you'll see some painters tape and something like duct tape painted black there.

I used to work on Star Trek Phase II fan shows some summers. We actually, for continuity, sometimes mimic these things for our episodes so they looked the same.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:55 PM   #33
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Doctor Who (the new stuff since 2005) is all coming out on Blu-Ray in HD this year.

Apparently, the stuff released between 2005-2008 that was originally 576i PAL 16x9 anamorphic video will be upconverted to 1080p HD. It might look okay, depending on how they do the conversion. In any case, 576 lines is better source material than the 480-line DVD's we have in the US now.
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:51 AM   #34
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Oh, YES! The mantra back then about any defects on a set was a big look of "don't worry" and "how pathetic our TV system is" and the words, "but the resolution is so low (or bad), they'll never see it at home." Yes, things were done just enough to meet the tech specs of the era and NO MORE than that.

On the plus side, I never knew a single individual who thought our NTSC decades ago was anything but a sad compromise and utterly a joke when it came to what we thought TV ought to be technically. We always felt we were working with a crap system and couldn't do some really high quality things as far as aesthetics with a shot, but sometimes that crap system worked to our advantage. . As a kid growing up, I was mesmerized at how BAD our TV system was and dreamed of something so much better. We are a lot closer to that today, thankfully.
We're actually running into problems today because things that we designed for the old TV systems don't look so good on our HDTVs. For example, computers. The old home PCs that used TVs as displays were designed for low-res. Unfortunately, what looks good on a TV set looks awful on today's high-res HDTVs and monitors, even when scaled up internally because the art was designed to take advantage of various NTSC artifacts.

Of course, now people are using old school SDTV equipment for "artsy" films because the low res nastiness can be exploited in ways digital effects in post can't (or are too expensive to).

And heck, NTSC was a nasty hack, based on what we had with 1940's technology that carried itself forward through some rather significant technological changes. It's probably one of the few things that lasted that long, and was so thoroughly understood by many people such that they could make it do things it never was supposed to, like video games and the like. And the way a lot of older TVs were accepting of a wide variety of almost-NTSC signals such that you didn't need a NTSC video generator to generate a signal - just a few cheap parts that could generate something that could put a spot on the screen under electronic control. (And yes, early PCs and consoles used these cheap hacks to generate their TV signals).
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #35
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Oh yeah, take a look at how the Apple ][ did color graphics. Woz took all kinds of liberties with what NTSC could do.

It was actually quite remarkable that so much was able to be retrofitted (color, stereo, closed-captioning) and still remain backwards compatible. You could still take one of the first TVs and watch it right up to the analog switch-off (albeit with crhoma dots; later B&W TVs filtered the chroma signal out).
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:30 PM   #36
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On the plus side, I never knew a single individual who thought our NTSC decades ago was anything but a sad compromise and utterly a joke when it came to what we thought TV ought to be technically.
I'm going to sort of be Devil's Advocate, but I think NTSC is the best technological example we have of backward compatibility.

From Wikipedia's dates, it was 12 years from NTSC to NTSC with color.. Then 56 years until analog broadcasts were shut down in the U.S. I think that's pretty darn good. Then again, I think backwards compatibility is an important thing.
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #37
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It was actually quite remarkable that so much was able to be retrofitted (color, stereo, closed-captioning) and still remain backwards compatible. You could still take one of the first TVs and watch it right up to the analog switch-off (albeit with crhoma dots; later B&W TVs filtered the chroma signal out).
Though to be nitpicky even with my raving about backwards compatibility, I wish they had added SOME parity bits or something into the closed captioning. It's WAY too easy to get garbled text in the closed captions.

and even more nitpicky, by "the first TVs", I presume you mean AFTER NTSC was adopted, since according to wikipedia (and other books I've read), you could buy TVs in the late 1920s, and NTSC was adopted in 1941 (according to wikip).
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:05 AM   #38
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You could make a TV before that - early TVs used a spinning disc with holes to scan lines with a light modulated by a radio. You had a crude picture on a tiny 1" "screen".

But yeah, basically with NTSC it worked backwards and forwards - the first NTSC TV will work until the signal was turned off. And you can shove in the first NTSC signals into a modern set and have it still work.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:54 AM   #39
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They should have added in something to indicate widescreen content, like they did in Europe when they went to color. Even when we got ATSC, we still didn't get anything to tell the TV if the program was widescreen. So here I sit in my hotel room, watching a stretched letterbox mess because of it.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:35 AM   #40
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Cool thread!!

I don't know where else to post this so I thought I'd put it here where people are already thinking about SD.

The biggest thing I am considering now is a large flat-screen TV which will play nice with old classic 720x480 SD movies which I already have. I also have some HD content, but the vast majority is SD.

When comparing 720p vs. 1080p flat screens, it would seem that the SD numbers would round off more gracefully on a 1080p screen than on a 720p screen. It would appear that the 1080p would come closer to a clean 2x upconversion than it could on a 720p.

I must say that I have been impressed by one-piece DVD player/flat screen units with what looked like 720p screens, although they may be something else. They are too small though and generally more suited in size for the bedroom than the larger rec room.

Are there any obvious choices for brands, product lines, or models which I should look at to display the best upconversion? Ones to avoid? I am thinking about larger sized flat screens in general.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:44 AM   #41
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I'm going to sort of be Devil's Advocate, but I think NTSC is the best technological example we have of backward compatibility.

From Wikipedia's dates, it was 12 years from NTSC to NTSC with color.. Then 56 years until analog broadcasts were shut down in the U.S. I think that's pretty darn good. Then again, I think backwards compatibility is an important thing.
Agreed 100%. I would add to that 35mm film, but NTSC TV is a much more engaging example given the level of technology that it was when it first came out, and how the standards prevailed for as long as they did. In ways this also reminds me of the MPEG codec and its intended backwards compatibility.

Last edited by christheman : 08-08-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:52 PM   #42
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I must say that I have been impressed by one-piece DVD player/flat screen units with what looked like 720p screens, although they may be something else. They are too small though and generally more suited in size for the bedroom than the larger rec room.
Most anything under 32" will be 720p, simply because the lines per inch at 1080p get smaller than what you can see at a normal viewing distance.

I'll let someone else suggest models.
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