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Old 07-18-2013, 09:28 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Yep, I picked up and resold a couple of $99 Premieres at the $199 lifetime price during that short window of time, made a couple hundred bucks on each I think.
I got a few Premieres then too.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:34 AM   #422
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It's really not that useful. I've used it a couple of times, but I didn't miss it when I didn't have it (MCE and TiVo pre-VOD rollout in my market).

The problem with TiVo and VOD is that you may not have a tuner available to use it, so you may not be able to get to VOD at a busy time. Better to just record everything like TiVo was meant to do.
Yeah but if you have more shows to record than tuners VoD is useful. Or if a show doesn't record. Or if you just heard about a show (before you thought about recording it) and want to catch up on a few past episodes. Also good for surfing once in awhile. Even more so when the Premiere debuted and it only had 2 tuners and had minimal recording storage as well.

In my experience people use VoD believe it or not. Crap interface and all. Hard to believe sometimes. But my point was just part of a larger post summing up why the Premiere launch was so disappointing.

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Old 07-18-2013, 10:20 AM   #423
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Oh really? Ok.

I think my points still stands which was that the Premiere was expensive at release even if it was just $700 and not $800.
My response was too your post where you where listing your issues with the Premiere with one of them being:
"You had to buy another $800+ Premiere in order to watch shows on a 2nd tv."
While I agree having to buy multiple DVRs can be costly you significantly over stated that costs ($600 or less versus $800) for a second Premiere.

I know people like to complain about the cost of TiVos but honestly I have owned 4 Tivos (3 new 1 refrub) with lifetime and the most I paid was $500.
I do expect my next one will cost more than that but I can live with it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #424
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I use On Demand even more lately (I thought I would play with it a few times then grow weary of it), to get the HD version of something I Tivoed the SD version of (for space reasons).

Some of the On Demand shows have VIRTUALLY no commercials, after a few days. (They seem to be almost exactly as the original airing, then after a few days, are replaced by MUCH shorter versions with fewer ads.) ...and many shows, I can still record on my other recorder to skip even those ads. So at that point, I'm technically just getting widescreen, and not HD, but it's still better than the pillarboxed original recording.

With infinite storage, I'd just Tivo everything in HD.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:56 AM   #425
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My response was too your post where you where listing your issues with the Premiere with one of them being:
"You had to buy another $800+ Premiere in order to watch shows on a 2nd tv."
While I agree having to buy multiple DVRs can be costly you significantly over stated that costs ($600 or less versus $800) for a second Premiere.

I know people like to complain about the cost of TiVos but honestly I have owned 4 Tivos (3 new 1 refrub) with lifetime and the most I paid was $500.
I do expect my next one will cost more than that but I can live with it.

Oh ok. But $600 is still expensive when it comes to outfitting your 2nd or 3rd or 4th tvs. It's why everyone is going towards whole-home solutions. Sorry the numbers I posted were higher than actual. No ill intent. They were off the top of my head. But the real numbers you've provided ($700 for 1st and $600 for 2nd etc) still aren't cheap enough to change the gist of my point. It was expensive to outfit your tvs with Tivos especially when you throw in the other issues listed.

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Old 07-19-2013, 09:52 AM   #426
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With infinite storage, I'd just Tivo everything in HD.
Why not buy some large hdd's for one of your pc's and send your recordings there for storage? I just picked up a 3tb external hdd (to go along with my 2tb external hdd) for my HTPC and have it dedicated for Tivo recordings.

That pc also has a 2tb internal hdd dedicated for my Windows Media Center recordings.

I have nothing against VOD, I do sub to both Netflix and Amazon Prime. But dedicated storage is, IMO, better than VOD. It also creates less of a need for multiple Tivos (before the Mini was released).

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Old 07-19-2013, 10:49 AM   #427
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Oh ok. But $600 is still expensive when it comes to outfitting your 2nd or 3rd or 4th tvs. It's why everyone is going towards whole-home solutions. Sorry the numbers I posted were higher than actual. No ill intent. They were off the top of my head. But the real numbers you've provided ($700 for 1st and $600 for 2nd etc) still aren't cheap enough to change the gist of my point. It was expensive to outfit your tvs with Tivos especially when you throw in the other issues listed.
Of course you are correct, that is exactly why I am a "multi-generational" TiVo home. But it is also why the Mini has been so aniticipated and (once DTA is implemented) will be the option of choice.

$600 for a full TiVo versus $250 for a Mini - yep, I will take 3 please.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #428
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I use On Demand even more lately (I thought I would play with it a few times then grow weary of it), to get the HD version of something I Tivoed the SD version of (for space reasons).

Some of the On Demand shows have VIRTUALLY no commercials, after a few days. (They seem to be almost exactly as the original airing, then after a few days, are replaced by MUCH shorter versions with fewer ads.) ...and many shows, I can still record on my other recorder to skip even those ads. So at that point, I'm technically just getting widescreen, and not HD, but it's still better than the pillarboxed original recording.

With infinite storage, I'd just Tivo everything in HD.
With 2TB of storage, I don't find space to be an issue. I think we're at ~28% now, and we haven't cleaned anything off in like a month and a half. That, and if you're really hoarding crap, you can just move off to a PC for infinite storage.

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Old 07-19-2013, 09:22 PM   #429
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Why not buy some large hdd's for one of your pc's and send your recordings there for storage? I just picked up a 3tb external hdd (to go along with my 2tb external hdd) for my HTPC and have it dedicated for Tivo recordings.
I did actually recently buy a 4 TB external drive to replace a 2 TB drive I managed to kill.. (I dded most everything to another drive, but it somehow lost its partition map, and I haven't yet tried to manually make the [Mac] partition map to see if I could ever then get recovery tools to see anything on it..)

This still requires 'some work' to manually copy stuff off fast enough to prevent things from being deleted. (My P4 currently has the stock drive in it.)

I will still probably try doing this at least for a couple of series.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:24 PM   #430
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With 2TB of storage, I don't find space to be an issue. I think we're at ~28% now, and we haven't cleaned anything off in like a month and a half. That, and if you're really hoarding crap, you can just move off to a PC for infinite storage.
A month and a half? How many shows do you record per day or week? I record A LOT.. All of the late night network talk shows (mostly for musical guests -- the one I watch fully is Letterman and even that backs up a LOT but I'm starting to eat into those with the summer being much lighter in new programming). But even nightly news -- daily (usually listen to the podcast, but I Tivo it because they seem to cut out anything vaguely pop culture related presumably due to rights issues), and still at least a show or two in primetime. That all adds up!
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:06 AM   #431
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A month and a half? How many shows do you record per day or week? I record A LOT.. All of the late night network talk shows (mostly for musical guests -- the one I watch fully is Letterman and even that backs up a LOT but I'm starting to eat into those with the summer being much lighter in new programming). But even nightly news -- daily (usually listen to the podcast, but I Tivo it because they seem to cut out anything vaguely pop culture related presumably due to rights issues), and still at least a show or two in primetime. That all adds up!
First of all, it's summer. Second, my roommate probably watches more TV than me. I have Rachel Maddow, Daily Show and Colbert Report all set to KUSN keep 10, so they're self-managing, and the other shows I watch aren't doing much now in the summer. It's also a 2TB drive, and with Comcast, which puts out 5.5GB/hr for HD with 3 HD's per QAM, we have well north of 300 hours of disk space to work with. There's a bunch of games and races and crap on there too. It's kind of hot in our basement, so I'll probably deal with it in September when there's more shows to record, the basement is cooler, and we get our 4th tuner back with DTA. I watch the weekly news and fake news shows in the kitchen sometimes while I'm cleaning/ prepping food/eating. I got the 2TB one because it's basically a bottomless pit. When it gets to 50 or 60% we'll clean it out and probably have it back down. When I was living alone, and I was good about deleting stuff, I think I would go back and forth in the 9-15% range.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:32 AM   #432
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Yes Summer used to mean there was not much to watch. But the last few Summers I've been recording and watching more programs than ever in my life for the Summer season. Summer 2012 I watched more shows than I did during the 2011/2012 regular TV season.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:20 PM   #433
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I did actually recently buy a 4 TB external drive to replace a 2 TB drive I managed to kill.. (I dded most everything to another drive, but it somehow lost its partition map, and I haven't yet tried to manually make the [Mac] partition map to see if I could ever then get recovery tools to see anything on it..)

This still requires 'some work' to manually copy stuff off fast enough to prevent things from being deleted. (My P4 currently has the stock drive in it.)

I will still probably try doing this at least for a couple of series.
No manual work needed with KMTTG. Just set the shows you want to offload and the amount of time before it gets offloaded. By setting the time you can make it so the shows don't offload until they are at risk of being deleted but also so it won't offload shows you watch immediately.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:55 AM   #434
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A second vector confirms an earlier nugget I received and I feel relatively confident in saying the incoming 4-tuner unit will feature a smaller form factor than the 6-tuner or Premiere, but not trapezoidal like the Mini.

I'm trying to keep everything documented and organized here:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/tivo-series-5/

Last edited by davezatz : 07-27-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:32 AM   #435
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A second vector confirms an earlier nugget I received and I feel relatively confident in saying the incoming 4-tuner unit will feature a smaller form factor than the 6-tuner or Premiere, but not trapezoidal like the Mini.

I'm trying to keep everything documented and organized here:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/tivo-series-5/
Thanks Dave!

I wonder if you should add a blurb about RCN's Jason Nealis confirming a September "Upgrade will have a lot of enhancements around MultiRoom and around the way a tuner is allocated for use with the Mini." which is a little firmer than your statement that, " It’s believed TiVo’s roadmap calls for dynamic tuner allocation to be enabled this fall, which would roughly correspond to the TiVo Series 5 release."

I wonder what other enhancements around MultiRoom besides for Dynamic Tuner Allocation? Perhaps some of the management items that were left off the original release?
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #436
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Thanks Dave!

I wonder if you should add a blurb about RCN's Jason Nealis confirming a September "Upgrade will have a lot of enhancements around MultiRoom and around the way a tuner is allocated for use with the Mini." which is a little firmer than your statement that, " It’s believed TiVo’s roadmap calls for dynamic tuner allocation to be enabled this fall, which would roughly correspond to the TiVo Series 5 release."

I wonder what other enhancements around MultiRoom besides for Dynamic Tuner Allocation? Perhaps some of the management items that were left off the original release?
Thanks, Sam - I've taken some of the vagueness out of the sentence and linked Jason/RCN. We have corroboration from another source that dynamic tuner allocation is already being tested, so that seems like a lock. I'm getting conflicting reports regarding the status of Netflix on the Mini, but that's not entirely relevant to S5 I guess.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:39 AM   #437
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I wonder why they would make the 4 tuner a smaller form factor. Maybe MSOs are asking for smaller boxes? I guess in some ways it might help on cost, but you would think making both the exactly the same would be cheaper.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #438
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"The 4-tuner model may feature a unique restriction in that it can be configured for digital cable, via CableCARD, OR for OTA, via antenna – but not both simultaneously."

Uh oh. Prepare yourselves for pre-launch complaint #1. Personally, meh. A 6-tuner model has my name on it.

Thanks for the update Dave.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #439
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I wonder why they would make the 4 tuner a smaller form factor. Maybe MSOs are asking for smaller boxes? I guess in some ways it might help on cost, but you would think making both the exactly the same would be cheaper.
Yeah, sounds like they're cutting as many costs as possible as a new lower-end unit. Since both boxes seem to require unique manufacturing/assembly anyway, they might as well save on size/weight/power supply/shipping too.

Dave, is that render for real? That's kinda on the fugly side. Hope the end result looks better under different lighting.

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Old 07-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #440
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STBs in general are getting smaller. I would not be surprised at all if MSOs were asking for smaller boxes. A TiVo Preview sized box would be nice.
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:03 AM   #441
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Dave, is that render for real? That's kinda on the fugly side. Hope the end result looks better under different lighting.
It's a render via the UI and the screen doesn't photograph so well. But it's something to go on until I turn up better imagery.



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STBs in general are getting smaller. I would not be surprised at all if MSOs were asking for smaller boxes. A TiVo Preview sized box would be nice.
I haven't written it up yet, but saw a 4 or 6 tuner Moto/Arris DVR in a package the size of like a hard back. I assume more functionality is built into smaller, cooler chipsets these days.
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:22 AM   #442
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It's a render via the UI and the screen doesn't photograph so well. But it's something to go on until I turn up better imagery.

Is the top as rounded as it appears to be? Or is it an optical illusion/effect? Regardless, I agree with BigJimOutlaw. It's ugly.

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I haven't written it up yet, but saw a 4 or 6 tuner Moto/Arris DVR in a package the size of like a hard back. I assume more functionality is built into smaller, cooler chipsets these days.
I'd be more concerned with proper cooling of the hard drive.
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #443
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Is the top as rounded as it appears to be? Or is it an optical illusion/effect? Regardless, I agree with BigJimOutlaw. It's ugly.
It looks like something from the 90s "Cute" school of industrial design (First gen iMac etc).

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I'd be more concerned with proper cooling of the hard drive.
I wonder if they aren't moving to notebook drives.
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:46 AM   #444
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I wonder if they aren't moving to notebook drives.
Doubtful, since they tend to cost more and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:57 AM   #445
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Doubtful, since they tend to cost more and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.
The cost argument is valid. They also have more size limitations.

Just a FYI: I took a peek to see what the 1TB 2.5" drive in my WDTV Live Hub is. It's too tall to fit in a standard notebook drive bay (twice the height), but is a WD Scorpio Blue 24/7 AV drive. Not a "green" model, but meets the requirements for TiVo use, and has lower power consumption than a 3.5" WD GP/AV drive...

If the drive manufacturers can make 2.5" drives that meet TiVo's criteria, now, or in the future, I don't see why they wouldn't be ruled out as an option....
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Old 07-27-2013, 11:59 AM   #446
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STBs in general are getting smaller. I would not be surprised at all if MSOs were asking for smaller boxes. A TiVo Preview sized box would be nice.
Agreed. The Comcast X2 box doesn't have a hard drive "resulting in a form factor three times smaller than conventional boxes, and 50 percent less power consumption."

I suspect that this small form-factor box will also be the primary box for TiVo's MSO partners which might explain why TiVo has significantly bumped up its inventory purchase obligations in its most recent quarter.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:36 PM   #447
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The cost argument is valid. They also have more size limitations.

Just a FYI: I took a peek to see what the 1TB 2.5" drive in my WDTV Live Hub is. It's too tall to fit in a standard notebook drive bay (twice the height), but is a WD Scorpio Blue 24/7 AV drive. Not a "green" model, but meets the requirements for TiVo use, and has lower power consumption than a 3.5" WD GP/AV drive...

If the drive manufacturers can make 2.5" drives that meet TiVo's criteria, now, or in the future, I don't see why they wouldn't be ruled out as an option....
Cost would be one of them. Aren't 2.5 drives are still more expensive than the 3.5 version? I haven't looked at them recently but they used to be about 25-30% more expensive for the same size.

Looking at Amazon at least retail though the WD Blue 500GB drives are the same price at 2.5 or 3.5 size so I guess they have come to the same price point.

And WD makes a 2.5 AVGP drive which is only slightly more expensive than the 3.5 version.

I will say the render definitely looks more like a cable box. It even has a logo in the bottom right corner.


EDIT: Just thought of this also. If TiVo opted for a 2.5 drive it would push those who want to upgrade to the XL model. While you might still be able to upgrade the drive, you will be potentially limited on the space so you might be stuck with 2.5 drives. The largest 2.5 drive currently from WD in the AV model is 1TB since most likely due to the platter size. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/av/

This could mean the end of the 2TB 4XL unless they truly have space for a 3.5 but they opted to use a 2.5 drive. Cooling could potentially be an issue with a larger drive.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:33 PM   #448
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2.5 drives are too expensive, and have half the capacity (2TB for the thick ones that won't fit in a laptop vs. 4TB for desktop drives). There's just no reason to try and cut that much space out of the box. Personally I like the big, stackable boxes, but the trend clearly is smaller and lighter. I guess it's a good thing that they are less energy intensive to manufacture and operate.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:40 PM   #449
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2.5 drives are too expensive, and have half the capacity (2TB for the thick ones that won't fit in a laptop vs. 4TB for desktop drives). There's just no reason to try and cut that much space out of the box. Personally I like the big, stackable boxes, but the trend clearly is smaller and lighter. I guess it's a good thing that they are less energy intensive to manufacture and operate.
I thought the same thing, but at least from Amazon they cost the same in the 500GB size 3.5 drives.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #450
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I thought the same thing, but at least from Amazon they cost the same in the 500GB size 3.5 drives.
The larger capacity drives are still a lot more expensive in 2.5 and nothing larger than 2TB is even available. I really hope they don't move to 2.5 drives. I have absolutely no problem with the current form factor and power requirements.
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