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Old 07-26-2013, 01:32 PM   #1
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How Chromecast Could Jumpstart TiVo’s Retail Ambitions

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-07/...ail-ambitions/

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:22 PM   #2
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I love how Dave always opens these windows for conversation. I do like this idea - an app on TiVo that would catch Chromecast streams.

It really opens the opportunity to be part of a growing ecosystem instead of a completely closed environment.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:38 PM   #3
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Back in the day, there was an app on Tivo that could capture a single screenshot of your PC and display it on screen. It was one of those HME things I think. Tivo should have come up with ChromeCast years ago. It's a shame.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:11 PM   #4
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Back in the day, there was an app on Tivo that could capture a single screenshot of your PC and display it on screen. It was one of those HME things I think. Tivo should have come up with ChromeCast years ago. It's a shame.
This type of technology has only recently become possible with 802.11n networks, H.264 encoding and PCs fast enough to capture and reencode video on the fly. Plus TiVo hasn't really been on the cutting edge of technology in quite some time. Back in the old days they were innovators, but these days they're mostly just trying to catch up. With the only recent exception perhaps being the TiVo Stream. But even that is limited to iOS only and does not support channels with H.264 encoding, so it's sort of falling behind too.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:39 PM   #5
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I do like this idea - an app on TiVo that would catch Chromecast streams.
From my understanding it's not streams from the Chromecast device you send to TiVo, but it's using the DIAL protocol so that for example YouTube videos you find on your mobile device can be sent over to TiVo via DIAL. i.e. Chromecast is just a cheap client device which supports DIAL, and TiVo series 5 will be another such client. Seems to me, though this doesn't have to be restricted to series 5 units as series 4 units could do it too, however the Flash app performance is so terrible on series 4 units that TiVo may not bother with it for those. Makes sense for Mini to support it as Flash apps on the Mini run fairly well.
(But I probably misunderstood your post).
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:43 PM   #6
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and TiVo series 5 will be another such client. Makes sense for Mini to support it as Flash apps on the Mini run fairly well.
(But I probably misunderstood your post).
I hope TiVo really does support this. You seem pretty confident.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:08 PM   #7
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I hope TiVo really does support this. You seem pretty confident.
I'm just going by Dave's post. I have no idea if TiVo will support it and didn't even know about DIAL until I saw Dave's article via your link. As Dave mentioned the "TiVo Developer channel" was DOA so perhaps something like this will renew interest in developing client apps that run on TiVo.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #8
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I'm just going by Dave's post. I have no idea if TiVo will support it and didn't even know about DIAL until I saw Dave's article via your link. As Dave mentioned the "TiVo Developer channel" was DOA so perhaps something like this will renew interest in developing client apps that run on TiVo.
Same here. DIAL is completely new to me as well.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:46 PM   #9
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I'm hoping the new platform with faster hardware will breath new life into the TiVo developer channel. If they add HBO and VUDU I'd never have to leave the TiVo UI. (right now I use my Samsung smart TV for most apps)
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:19 PM   #10
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I think you guys are looking at the protocol, DIAL and Chromecast backwards.

The TiVo would run DIAL compatible apps and direct streams to the Chromecast device just like you will do with your pda or computer. It just launches the stream on the chromecast device which is plugged in to your tv.

For TiVo to capture or otherwise integrate the stream would require an HDMI input and intercept of the DRM encoded stream...not gonna happen on TiVo.

So the TiVo would allow you to browse and select a stream and then you would switch HDMI ports on the tv (because TiVo is plugged in to one of them) and watch the stream. I don't see it as the TiVo controls and the interface needing to swap inputs would be very kludgey at best.

Chromecast is a streaming device that uses a chrome browser on android or pc to provide the interface. There seems to be a lot of confusion on the net as to what Chromecast is.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:27 PM   #11
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I think you guys are looking at the protocol, DIAL and Chromecast backwards.

The TiVo would run DIAL compatible apps and direct streams to the Chromecast device just like you will do with your pda or computer. It just launches the stream on the chromecast device which is plugged in to your tv.

For TiVo to capture or otherwise integrate the stream would require an HDMI input and intercept of the DRM encoded stream...not gonna happen on TiVo.

So the TiVo would allow you to browse and select a stream and then you would switch HDMI ports on the tv (because TiVo is plugged in to one of them) and watch the stream. I don't see it as the TiVo controls and the interface needing to swap inputs would be very kludgey at best.

Chromecast is a streaming device that uses a chrome browser on android or pc to provide the interface. There seems to be a lot of confusion on the net as to what Chromecast is.
Completely disagree. TiVo would work the same way as the Chromecast dongle. If a TiVo owner is using the YouTube app on their iPad, they could easily fling the video to their TiVo connected TV or Chromecast connected TiVo. The way it works now, the TiVo app must be launched first on the TiVo. This eliminates the extra step and allows the TiVo to broadcast 'app' availability to any android or iOS app.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:41 PM   #12
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Exactly. When you fling something from Chrome or an app that supports DIAL it asks you which device to fling it to. Your TiVo would just show up in that list.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:03 PM   #13
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Exactly. When you fling something from Chrome or an app that supports DIAL it asks you which device to fling it to. Your TiVo would just show up in that list.
Yes, that's my understanding of how it works too. Chromecast is just a DIAL client and TiVo supposedly will be another if Dave's article is true.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:14 PM   #14
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I just tried my Chromecast on the big TV (65" LED) and it doesn't look very good when playing Netflix. I use the TVs built in Netflix app for the same show and it looks way better. Although the TV is wired and the Chromecast is wifi with only 2 bars, so that could have something to do with it.

I also tried the casting feature of the Samsung TV (same menu as the Chromecast) it would launch the Netflix app, sometimes, but it wouldn't start the program. It would just crash and restart.

I tried Youtube, which is supported by both devices as well, and both of them looked about the same.

One thing the Chromecast can do, that the TV can't, is play flash based video from Chrome on my laptop. So I'll have some use for it when I miss something and need to watch it via the web instead.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:28 PM   #15
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The World Isn’t Ready For The Chromecast Yet

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This thing is going to fail because it all about content Steve Jobbs is right when he said ".what people really wanted was movies, movies movies".

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/th...chromecast-yet

Also, the dongle requires a power supply, yet another cord to stuff behind your TV.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:51 PM   #16
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This thing is going to fail because it all about content Steve Jobbs is right when he said ".what people really wanted was movies, movies movies".

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/th...chromecast-yet

Also, the dongle requires a power supply, yet another cord to stuff behind your TV.
It actually uses a thin USB cable. My TV had a USB port right next to the HDMI ports so the whole thing is still behind the TV.

They say some TVs can actually supply power via HDMI, but mine is brand new and supports HDMI 1.4 but it still would not power the Chromecast without the USB cable.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:57 PM   #17
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One thing the Chromecast can do, that the TV can't, is play flash based video from Chrome on my laptop. So I'll have some use for it when I miss something and need to watch it via the web instead.
Problem with that is typically the quality of the big 4 network TV web site videos is terrible. Full screen mode on my small 17" laptop looks bad enough for most of their flash videos, I would hate to see how that looks on a 60" display and further degraded via Chromecast. If it's a decent show I'd rather pay for a good quality Amazon download to my TiVo instead.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #18
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Problem with that is typically the quality of the big 4 network TV web site videos is terrible. Full screen mode on my small 17" laptop looks bad enough for most of their flash videos, I would hate to see how that looks on a 60" display and further degraded via Chromecast. If it's a decent show I'd rather pay for a good quality Amazon download to my TiVo instead.
It's no different than streaming a Netflix video from the Cloud. Better than streaming airplay from an iOS device.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:58 PM   #19
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After the internet flak dies down. Android sheep, Apple haters, Tivo haters, Roku lovers,Roku haters etc. Lets see how the general public gets along with thing. I can hear those calls to Leo (The Tech Guy on Twit) now...
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:20 PM   #20
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It's no different than streaming a Netflix video from the Cloud. Better than streaming airplay from an iOS device.
I strongly disagree with that. With Netflix I get mostly excellent "Super HD" 1080p/24 video quality that is actually better than what my cable company calls "HD" channels. In contrast, for example abc.com spits out very lousy quality in comparison. I'm actually very happy with video quality from Netflix and especially Amazon downloads.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:29 PM   #21
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Also, the dongle requires a power supply, yet another cord to stuff behind your TV.
Doesn't it only require power on devices that aren't running HDMI 1.4?

From an Amazon review

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Power Adapter:
The power adapter is an optional requirement. In fact, most modern TV's with HDMI 1.4 or higher spec are supported. The Chromecast can draw power from the HDMI port it's plugged into. If your TV doesn't support that, there's also a USB cable and power adapter included in the box. I have a 2012 LG LED and a 2013 Lenovo 27" Monitor with HDMI input and the ports power it with no cable.

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Old 07-26-2013, 11:43 PM   #22
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My TV has HDMI 1.4 but I couldn't get it to power via the HDMI port.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:55 AM   #23
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Completely disagree. TiVo would work the same way as the Chromecast dongle. If a TiVo owner is using the YouTube app on their iPad, they could easily fling the video to their TiVo connected TV or Chromecast connected TiVo. The way it works now, the TiVo app must be launched first on the TiVo. This eliminates the extra step and allows the TiVo to broadcast 'app' availability to any android or iOS app.
Oh, that's even worse. It does not use the Chromecast device at all. It still relies on the Tivo to do the streaming with it does (not) oh so well. I had figured Google would have outfitted the Chromecast device with enough memory and processor to start and buffer a stream for hitch free viewing, something far beyond the capability of the Tivo. Maybe not, have not seen many truly positive reviews of the Chromecast device yet. Seems to be pretty limited by poor wireless performance so far.

Oh well. Back to business as usual. Having a menu of vids on a tablet or other third party device that I can 'fling' to the TiVo is not of interest to me for the same reason I do not use a Roku. I use a whole home TiVo system, all audio, video and photos are presented via that same menu system. Period. One Device. One interface, consistent throughout the home.

Items are stored and pushed to TiVo for glitch free viewing. I will not tolerate network hickups in streaming video and most providers do not allow buffering of sufficient data to provide that.

I don't see the Chromecast device being of much use for hotel travel either due to the low bandwidth wifi available at most hotels. Usually 3Mbit or so if lucky.
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:26 AM   #24
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Good comparison of Chromecast vs Airplay here -->

http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/24/45...o-they-compare

Here is some info on what's inside the Chromecast dongle -->

http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/26/45...eardown-ifixit

- Marvell "Armada" DE3005 processor
- AzureWave combo Wi-Fi chip
- 4GB of flash memory
- 512MB of low-voltage RAM.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Chr...ome,23658.html
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:24 PM   #25
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Back in the day, there was an app on Tivo that could capture a single screenshot of your PC and display it on screen. It was one of those HME things I think.
Good 'ol Galleon!
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #26
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I read Dave's post as a wish, not a prediction.

IMO, a Tivo that is a google cast receiver (what a chromecast device is) will never happen. Too much of a mixed user experience. Use your smartphone for these things, put it down and use the remote for the rest. IMO, Tivo's target audience still includes people who don't even have smartphones. Also, Tivo wants their box be the center of things.

I would like it to be able to serve to chromecasts, so a chromecast could serve as as poor man's Mini. But that would make the serving Tivo look bad because it's Netflix and Youtube don't measure up.

This is a device/protocol that someone could build a very nice smartphone controlled whole house DVR around, though.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #27
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I read Dave's post as a wish, not a prediction.

IMO, a Tivo that is a google cast receiver (what a chromecast device is) will never happen. Too much of a mixed user experience. Use your smartphone for these things, put it down and use the remote for the rest. IMO, Tivo's target audience still includes people who don't even have smartphones. Also, Tivo wants their box be the center of things.

I would like it to be able to serve to chromecasts, so a chromecast could serve as as poor man's Mini. But that would make the serving Tivo look bad because it's Netflix and Youtube don't measure up.

This is a device/protocol that someone could build a very nice smartphone controlled whole house DVR around, though.
Dave's post mentioned DIAL and Flingo has possible leverage points for implementing Chromecast on the TiVo. TiVo's YouTube app is virtually identical to the YouTube app available on many other devices. Have you tried it lately?

Netflix, OTOH, needs an update. I expect that we will see an update from Netflix eventually especially if TiVo can figure out a way to sell more boxes and possibly get Netflix on some of their MSO-partner boxes.

YouTube, Hulu Plus, and MLB TV perform very well on the Mini.

One other point is that Flingo is doing something with DIAL. Take a look at the Name Registry here -->

http://www.dial-multiscreen.org/dial...space-database

Another thread also notice that TiVo's Web Video Launchpad powered by Flingo has been crippled with significantly reduced content... perhaps hinting at a different approach?

Quote:
Who Should Register

1st screen applications—the registry is only needed, and only useful for 1st screen applications. If you, or your organization has developed a 1st screen application, and that application is publicly available on a device, or in an app marketplace, you can register the app name.
Existing non-DIAL apps—you may register an app name even if the devices it runs on do not currently implement the DIAL protocol.
App name prefixes—if you have multiple 1st screen applications that will be named with a common prefix, and wish to reserve a name prefix. For example if you have the following apps: acme-videoPlayer, acme-musicJukebox, acme-pictureGallery – reserve the prefix acme-.

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Old 07-28-2013, 09:42 PM   #28
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Good 'ol Galleon!
Yes! That's it! I couldn't remember the name. I don't think I've had any of those apps since I had a Series 2. They were great examples of things Tivo should do but doesn't (or doesn't do well).
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:19 PM   #29
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There are a lot of people ITT being dismissive of DIAL and Chromecast and what it represents.

This is a 35 dollar piece of hardware that I used about an hour ago to stream HD netflix video to my TV, then within 20 seconds swapped it to playing some free song I had on my Google Music app (I use Amazon for music) and then within 20 seconds have pulled up one of my kids favorite YouTube videos... all from my phone. I paused it, jumped ahead half way, and exited out of it without a hitch.

I got better performance for streaming video playback out of a $35 dongle and my existing smart phone than I can get out of my $200 + sub TiVo box, my $300 PS3 or my 200ish dollar Xbox 360. Not to mention that 2 of those devices have boot-up times longer than the entire time it takes me to find and play a video on the Chromecast.

So, DIAL is going to be growing soon. If Google puts enough of these dongles on TVs and gets enough partners to embed the technology, the client applications will follow.

Now, TiVo could do what DIAL was originally designed for an actually just launch their embedded applications to stream the content... but why? Google has shown that a tiny little OS running nothing more than a glorified Chrome browser can stream HD video and music. Why launch a ridiculous flash application with an awful UI when you can just launch an open source browser in a sandbox? I promise you, Google would happily give TiVo the necessary code to embed this in to the next gen TiVo.

Don't look at what Chromecast does NOW (basically, only stream google content and netflix), look at what it COULD DO if implemented on the scale of AirPlay (HBOGO, watchESPN, Pandora, Amazon Instant Video, Amazon Music, Hulu, Spotify, etc).

And I haven't even touched on the browser window mirroring, which in some business environments is, by itself, a compelling enough reason to own one.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:35 PM   #30
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You have to keep in mind that according to the article TiVo is targeting the series 5 hardware for DIAL, which if performance of Mini is any indication, will run these Flash apps MUCH faster than the current crappy series 4 hardware platform can. So you can't look at it in context of series 4 hardware/experience.
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