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Old 05-21-2013, 01:20 PM   #1
Ron DeGumbia
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Thoughts on Xbox One & Tivo

I'm curious as to how the hdmi pass thru will function on the Xbox One as far as using the Tivo. The voice commands on the Xbox one seem pretty neat, but I love my Tivos. I really hope they will work seamlessly.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
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I'm curious as to how the hdmi pass thru will function on the Xbox One as far as using the Tivo. The voice commands on the Xbox one seem pretty neat, but I love my Tivos. I really hope they will work seamlessly.
Its going to use an IR blaster with HDMI passthrough so we'll see how well that works.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:02 PM   #3
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It may be quick at switching modes, but the delay it will have on switching channels using IR blasters will be painful as Im not aware of any Comcast STBs that support HDMI CEC, maybe their new X1 platform does.

I am interested to see how the XBOX One guide, recording, DVR management all interfaces with cable co DVRs, not sure there is any way it can be a seamless solution when your relying on communication with a secondary box that are notorious for their poor software and lackluster performance. Seems it may end up in a Google TV type of situation where only one provider fully supports the integration potential, while all others are left with a hacky implementation that relies heavily on which direction the wind blows when the IR blaster fires its signals.

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Old 05-21-2013, 07:04 PM   #4
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Its going to use an IR blaster with HDMI passthrough so we'll see how well that works.
I'm guessing it would work like google TV did. It had an HDMi pass through as well.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:19 AM   #5
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And probably be another bust like GoogleTV (for those features, not as a game/streamer console).
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:45 AM   #6
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Well hopefully the TiVo Series 5 will have the capability to be controlled over HDMI. If so I would definitely like to try using it with the Xbox One.



But if it can't be used to easily watch the recorded content on the TiVo, then I guess I won't even bother with it.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:53 AM   #7
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They don't need to do an ir blaster if they can do network control, that would be a smart move.

However DVR connectivity has been very conspicuously absent in the product discussion so far.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:08 PM   #8
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Even with network control there is no way it could control the full functionality of the TiVo so you'd still need to use the TiVo UI for most things. It might be able to change the channel on live TV and maybe schedule a one off recording, but that's about it. So basically you'd be using it as an A/V switch box.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:46 PM   #9
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It would be real nice if they made a TiVo app for the 360 like the iPad app. Presumably that app could also easily be ported to Windows 8 /rt. Unfortunately there just aren't enough TiVo's out there for Microsoft to build specific network controls. But if the platform were open enough so TiVo or others could build it could be pretty exciting.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:49 AM   #10
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I just don't see the point. Why view and control my TiVo via an Xbox when I can view and control my TiVo via the TiVo GUI? If the Xbox had a tuner and a CableCARD slot (or some other authorization/security mechanism) and could function as a DVR itself that would useful but this HDMI pass-thru just seems like stupid console tricks.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:52 AM   #11
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I just don't see the point. Why view and control my TiVo via an Xbox when I can view and control my TiVo via the TiVo GUI? If the Xbox had a tuner and a CableCARD slot (or some other authorization/security mechanism) and could function as a DVR itself that would useful but this HDMI pass-thru just seems like stupid console tricks.
It certainly makes no sense to put a cable card slot in the XBOne. Cable cards are an extremely niche product for non cable company devices. And the only reason they are in a bunch of cable company boxes is because they were forced to use them.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:29 AM   #12
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It certainly makes no sense to put a cable card slot in the XBOne. Cable cards are an extremely niche product for non cable company devices. And the only reason they are in a bunch of cable company boxes is because they were forced to use them.
I agree there is no reason for Microsoft to put a cable card slot into XBOne but there is also no reason Microsoft couldn't sell add on software for the XBOne that provides functionality equivalent to Windows Media Center and works with external (USB and/or Networked) third party cable card and OTA tuners.

Regarding the pass through HDMI abilities I understand that, it allows Microsoft to obtain viewing data, insert Microsoft services and provides an option for the people who seem to have problems with changing inputs to switch between devices.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:08 PM   #13
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I agree there is no reason for Microsoft to put a cable card slot into XBOne but there is also no reason Microsoft couldn't sell add on software for the XBOne that provides functionality equivalent to Windows Media Center and works with external (USB and/or Networked) third party cable card and OTA tuners.
They said it has a away to run Windows so that might be possible. Not sure if there is much of a market for it though.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:34 PM   #14
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I just don't see the point. Why view and control my TiVo via an Xbox when I can view and control my TiVo via the TiVo GUI? If the Xbox had a tuner and a CableCARD slot (or some other authorization/security mechanism) and could function as a DVR itself that would useful but this HDMI pass-thru just seems like stupid console tricks.
Well for starters "xbox: pause" and "xbox play" works really well in its current 360/kinect form...Xbox One looking to up the ante quite a bit with overaly control, vocie commands, gestures with any box, not just TiVo.

Simple one way commands like pause, play, fast forward etc work extremely well and are not 'Siri' like in any way. With siri you talk, she talks back, u talk again half the time. Slow, annoying, not cool at all...

Simple commands like "xbox pause" is pretty awesome and totally convenient (imo)

My thread in the Premiere forums: Voice activated Tivo, via Xbox One... whataya guys think?
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:02 PM   #15
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I was wondering the exact same thing.

On first blush I was thinking "Oh man, this will be great, when will they talk about DVR functionality" ... then I realized they don't have any tuner, or near big enough HDD for the xbox to be a DVR, so then I though "well maybe they'll talk about DVR integration" ... nope.

So then after the press conference I googled around. It is using an IR blaster as people have mentioned. Talk about half assed.

Why would I want an xbox UI over top of my tivo UI, use voice for some stuff, but not 90% of what we do in my house which is pre-recorded shows.

I found this article, that pretty much sums up my sentiments: http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/43...from-google-tv

At this juncture I don't see the point of the TV functionality of the xbox. My harmony will just as easily switch inputs to a PS 4 or Xbox, or Steam Big Picture box or whatever just as easy as saying "xbox, tv".

Having worked with IR blasters in the past, talk about error prone.

I was disappointed to be frank. (does it show? lol) I would pay good money for a true all in one box for blu ray, streaming, gaming, and DVR/tuners.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:18 PM   #16
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Something just dawned on me.

Could it be possible MS has IP TV up their sleeve and just hasn't announced yet?

Far fetched, pipe dream, I know.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:34 PM   #17
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^^^ thx for the article.. hmm, pretty bummed now too.. I dont watch live tv very often but wanted the voice commands... TiVo Series 5 will have to answer the call then

TiVo: pause

TiVo: play

TiVo Pretty Please
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:41 PM   #18
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Something just dawned on me.

Could it be possible MS has IP TV up their sleeve and just hasn't announced yet?

Far fetched, pipe dream, I know.
I think that they had an Xbox 360 IPTV service available in other countries.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:58 PM   #19
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that Verge article is wrong on a number of fronts. he's using his Google TV experience and basing his opinion on that experience (and don't forget, Patel was pushing Google TV hard to anyone that would listen to him since his Engadget days). He didn't give up on his Google TV until his readers kept deluging him with posts saying how crappy Google TV was.

the Kinect is acting as the IR blaster in this case. in case you can't use the HDMI connection. this isn't your tape-the-IR-blaster thing that you grew up on.

google cnet kinect ir blaster. that's a good article on the potential. yeah, it's potential but that's better than conjecture based on Google TV.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:11 PM   #20
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Gimmick.

Anyways, they want the X1 to aggregate all your sources rather than your AV receiver?

One reason is so that it's always on and Kinect can be used in new ways to collect data.

Someone said watching certain programming, verified by Kinect, would earn you some Xbox Achievement points.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:13 PM   #21
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I still don't really see a purpose, at least not for a TiVo user. Unless it has the ability to completely control the TiVo UI, which I don't think is really possible with IR blasters and no bidirectional communication, then TiVo users would really only ever use it as an HDMI pass through, if that. For a standard cable box user, which is actually watching live TV, I could see some value in it. But for a TiVo user it's pretty useless.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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I was kind of hoping that they'd integrate DVR functions as some rumors indicated.

But I guess they're hoping that gestures and voice will be the new UI paradigm for TV.
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #23
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As far as I've seen, there's been no comments as to how and even if the XboxOne will deal with a DVR, all we've seen is TV, and we still don't know the source of the signal, was it OTA? a cable STB? an HDHomerun? (wishful thinking). If you go by the numbers, 50% of US homes have a DVR, and so far zero feedback on how the XboxOne will deal.

If you then assume the DVR and Xbox are on the primary set in the house, the quandry of exactly what TV device the Xbox is controlling and how becomes a big question mark. This would have been easy from 1998 to 2005 when everyone had analog in the cable system.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:39 PM   #24
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I think what they plan to do is integrate their own guide and allow it to change the channel on a simple cable or DSS box. There is no way they could properly interact with a DVR without bidirectional communication.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:56 AM   #25
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I think what they plan to do is integrate their own guide and allow it to change the channel on a simple cable or DSS box. There is no way they could properly interact with a DVR without bidirectional communication.
Why would you need bi-directional communication. It should still be able to do basic things like go to the my Shows list, then you tell it to go up or down a certain number of titles then play. No idea though but I figure anything you can use a remote for, it should be able to work with it.

I have no idea how I woul duse it though. I've not used my receiver to switch my devices in many years since I've been using external video scalers/processors for a long time. I've typically used one input on my receiver. So I have no idea how all this would integrate with the XBOne.

And now that I think about it, because of 3D I don't even run video through my receiver any more, since my receiver is too old to handle 3D. So I just send HDMI audio to it from my iScan Duo.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:49 AM   #26
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I guess if you want to navigate the TiVo using voice or hand gestures then it should be possible. But it would not be possible for them to schedule recordings from their guide or play a recording directly from their UI without some sort of bidirectional communication letting them know that the TiVo is doing what they expected. Using some elaborate macro to move around in the TiVo UI would be prone to errors, which could end up deleting recordings, and would not be effective anyway because the way you navigate to a recording depends on whether you have groups enabled, the sorting option, etc....
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:10 PM   #27
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They have bi-directional communication with TiVo if they want it, via IP control. Without that they can't display what recordings are available or select one to play, though they could set up new recordings.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:06 PM   #28
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They have bi-directional communication with TiVo if they want it, via IP control. Without that they can't display what recordings are available or select one to play, though they could set up new recordings.
IP control is only one direction. It's basically the same IR commands sent by a remote just sent via IP. It does not communicate any state information back to the host. So really it's no better then using IR except that it's more reliable.

Now TiVo has something called the mindrpc interface which is bidirectional and is what other TiVos and the iPad app use to communicate with a TiVo. However it is not publicly documented anywhere. Forum member moyekj has done a good job reverse engineering it and using it in kmttg, but no commercial product is going to use it unless TiVo releases an official SDK.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:20 PM   #29
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IP control is only one direction. It's basically the same IR commands sent by a remote just sent via IP. It does not communicate any state information back to the host. So really it's no better then using IR except that it's more reliable.
Say what??? The Series3 had a web server with which you could examine the "Now Playing" list; your My TiVo web page will let you peruse your My Shows and To Do lists and there are TiVo-created Android and iOS apps which will display the My Shows list and let you start playing a selected recording or delete it if you want (you can perform all of the functions in those apps that you can in TiVo's on screen UI, including "Watch Now", "Explore", "Season Pass", "Delete" and "Upcoming"). You can also use it to create new recording requests and Season Passes as well as to manage your Season Pass and To Do lists.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:18 AM   #30
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Say what??? The Series3 had a web server with which you could examine the "Now Playing" list; your My TiVo web page will let you peruse your My Shows and To Do lists and there are TiVo-created Android and iOS apps which will display the My Shows list and let you start playing a selected recording or delete it if you want (you can perform all of the functions in those apps that you can in TiVo's on screen UI, including "Watch Now", "Explore", "Season Pass", "Delete" and "Upcoming"). You can also use it to create new recording requests and Season Passes as well as to manage your Season Pass and To Do lists.
The web page is something hosted on the TiVo itself. All you're getting in your browser is HTML the TiVo generated. There is an HTTP protocol that will serve up a list of all the shows in My Shows via XML but the only good that does is allow you to download shows via TiVoToGo.

The interface used by the iOS and Android apps is the mindrpc interface I mentioned. It is not currently available to the public. One of the members of this forum has done extensive work to reverse engineer it for a program called kmttg, and there may even be a few other apps that use it, but it's not publicly documented or available for licenses, so there is no chance Microsoft will be using it in the XBox One.

The only other IP interface is an IP control interface will basically allows you to send remote control commands via the network. It has a few commands that are not on a typical TiVo remote, but it's unidirectional. It does not allow the host device to know what state the TiVo itself is in.

The ONLY way this could be done is via mindrpc. And unless TiVo and MS have some special deal setup to allow them access to it I highly doubt that's going to happen.
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