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Old 07-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by danielhart View Post
"You get what you pay for"

Some of the best dramas on TV are non-premium cable though. Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Killing, Walking Dead, Sons of Anarchy, etc.

Network TV is crap and is beholden to the FCC and advertisers. You just can't get edgy, adult-oriented stuff on free TV. It's all watered down schlock. Protect the children and all that....

Smash on NBC is a prime example - I liked it a little but if it had been on Showtime as originally developed it probably would have been amazing.

About all I watch on network TV anymore is Survivor, Amazing Race, 60 Minutes, the Voice, and sports (and most of that has moved to ESPN or other cable stations like NBC Sports)
Here's the promise with that premise. For YEARS that "schlock" as you call it was nominated for Emmys. I like edgy stuff and watch some of the shows nominated on cable, basic or otherwise. But, just because something is edgy, full of profanity and nudity and written for adults doesn't mean it's better than family oriented non edgy stuff that's on broadcast TV. I think sometimes we confuse "edgy" with better. A well written sitcom like Modern Family or The Big Bang Theory is a perfect example. Or something like The Good Wife. These shows aren't that different than network shows over the years. But they are well done and interesting.

Now, it could be that better writers are flocking to cable because they can be "free" to use whatever poetic license they want to. I get that. I think it might take MORE talent to write a show that doesn't have the elements that make it edgy on cable, for broadcast TV.

It's like thinking a comedian isn't funny unless he uses profanity and tells sex jokes. A comedian who doesn't do that can be just as funny and is probably more talented because it's harder to do.

If the networks continue to add more and more reality crap, then yeah, they deserve what they get.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:20 PM   #32
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It is an absolute and total travesty that Parks & Rec was left off the list for Best Comedy Series. It should be winning that category every year. Same for Nick Offerman in Supporing Actor in a Comedy Series.
I think Parks & Recreation is the best consistent comedy ever. I'd rate it a solid B+.

but I'd rate probably every single episode a B+. It's not A material. They never have hilarious stand out episodes. But they've never had a single bad episode either. Just consistently very very good.

Some of the others have some great episodes. And some mediocre ones. And some bad ones. The best Modern Family is better than the best Parks & Recreation.
And that's what they're being judged on. The worst Parks and Recreation is still very very good though. While the worst Modern Family is just awful.

That's my opinion anyways.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #33
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I think Parks & Recreation is the best consistent comedy ever. I'd rate it a solid B+.

but I'd rate probably every single episode a B+. It's not A material. They never have hilarious stand out episodes. But they've never had a single bad episode either. Just consistently very very good.

Some of the others have some great episodes. And some mediocre ones. And some bad ones. The best Modern Family is better than the best Parks & Recreation.
And that's what they're being judged on. The worst Parks and Recreation is still very very good though. While the worst Modern Family is just awful.

That's my opinion anyways.
Well my opinion is, after watching a few scattered episodes is it's a solid D. An occasional chuckle but usually not very funny. The worst Modern Family is funnier than this show I have to agree with the Emmy folks on this one.

And yes, I know I'm in the minority here. But I usually am with most shows
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #34
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Modern family and Big Bang Theory are both filled with sex jokes and innuendos and crap too. Just not the F bomb and nudity, but same crap really, don't watch those with the kids either.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #35
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Lead actress in comedy series

Lena Dunham, Girls, HBO
Laura Dern, Enlightened, HBO
Tiny Fey, 30 Rock, NBC
Amy Poehler, Parks and Recreation, NBC
Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Veep, HBO
Edie Falco, Nurse Jackie, Showtime

3 out of 6 are SNL alumni. Cool.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:28 PM   #36
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Modern family and Big Bang Theory are both filled with sex jokes and innuendos and crap too. Just not the F bomb and nudity, but same crap really, don't watch those with the kids either.
There's always been sex jokes, since the 1950s. They were just more subtle then. I'm not talking about innuendo, I'm talking about outright sex jokes with graphic language and so forth.

I think about an interview Jerry Seinfeld had about the episode "The Contest" He realized that not ever referring to masturbation directly ONCE was what made it so funny.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:30 PM   #37
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Lead actress in comedy series

Lena Dunham, Girls, HBO
Laura Dern, Enlightened, HBO
Tiny Fey, 30 Rock, NBC
Amy Poehler, Parks and Recreation, NBC
Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Veep, HBO
Edie Falco, Nurse Jackie, Showtime

3 out of 6 are SNL alumni. Cool.
SNL is the single greatest source of comedy talent since the beginning of TV. Only other shows in the same statosphere were The Tonight Show (during the Carson years) and Ed Sullivan. Lorne Michaels and his staff sure know how to find talent.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:26 PM   #38
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Here's the promise with that premise. For YEARS that "schlock" as you call it was nominated for Emmys. I like edgy stuff and watch some of the shows nominated on cable, basic or otherwise. But, just because something is edgy, full of profanity and nudity and written for adults doesn't mean it's better than family oriented non edgy stuff that's on broadcast TV. I think sometimes we confuse "edgy" with better. A well written sitcom like Modern Family or The Big Bang Theory is a perfect example. Or something like The Good Wife. These shows aren't that different than network shows over the years. But they are well done and interesting.

Now, it could be that better writers are flocking to cable because they can be "free" to use whatever poetic license they want to. I get that. I think it might take MORE talent to write a show that doesn't have the elements that make it edgy on cable, for broadcast TV.

It's like thinking a comedian isn't funny unless he uses profanity and tells sex jokes. A comedian who doesn't do that can be just as funny and is probably more talented because it's harder to do.

If the networks continue to add more and more reality crap, then yeah, they deserve what they get.
It's about realism imo. Characters being able to say things that people actually say and do things people actually do. And there is more to it as well. The paradigm for success on network just doesn't allow shows room to breathe. And then when they do find some success, they beat it to death and kill it. All of a sudden you have 14 versions of CSI and a bunch of Law and Orders. Or what I like to call Fonzie syndrome, where a fun or interesting side character becomes popular and the network insists they become the center of everything, and they overdo it and ruin it.

I just watched the whole first season of Orange is the New Black on Netflix. I could watch it on my own schedule, didn't have to worry about it getting cancelled a few shows in, and enjoyed that it actually had a some realistic semblance of what life in a low-security federal women's prison would be like.

My point is that I don't find it sad at all that the networks are getting creamed and I love the new ways in which we get to watch quality programming. Adapt or die imo.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:34 PM   #39
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It's about realism imo. Characters being able to say things that people actually say and do things people actually do. And there is more to it as well. The paradigm for success on network just doesn't allow shows room to breathe. And then when they do find some success, they beat it to death and kill it. All of a sudden you have 14 versions of CSI and a bunch of Law and Orders. Or what I like to call Fonzie syndrome, where a fun or interesting side character becomes popular and the network insists they become the center of everything, and they overdo it and ruin it.

I just watched the whole first season of Orange is the New Black on Netflix. I could watch it on my own schedule, didn't have to worry about it getting cancelled a few shows in, and enjoyed that it actually had a some realistic semblance of what life in a low-security federal women's prison would be like.

My point is that I don't find it sad at all that the networks are getting creamed and I love the new ways in which we get to watch quality programming. Adapt or die imo.
The way to watch TV has nothing to do with quality. So that's a different point altogether. I could watch most network shows on my portable device or PC as well or on a DVR on my own schedule.

I agree, some of the broadcast network practices are forcing them to fall behind. I also think that there is too much pressure on success on broadcast networks. So many shows are just cast adrift after 2-3 episodes these days. Usually on cable the series is given the chance to at least finish it's run. Still, I don't feel the FCC restraints as much as financial restraints are the reason why the broadcast networks are falling behind. With the stakes so high, there's little reason to risk anything....thus, you get 15 variations of American Idol. And can someone tell me what the difference is between AI, The Voice and all these others? They are essentially the same show. What makes the shows are the judges. Otherwise they are exactly the same.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:34 PM   #40
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The Emmy awards have come a long way since their historically ridiculous snubbing of The Wire.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:38 PM   #41
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I think Parks & Recreation is the best consistent comedy ever. I'd rate it a solid B+.

but I'd rate probably every single episode a B+. It's not A material. They never have hilarious stand out episodes. But they've never had a single bad episode either. Just consistently very very good.

Some of the others have some great episodes. And some mediocre ones. And some bad ones. The best Modern Family is better than the best Parks & Recreation.
And that's what they're being judged on. The worst Parks and Recreation is still very very good though. While the worst Modern Family is just awful.

That's my opinion anyways.
I mostly agree, though I'd probably go with consistent A-. But I can recall a couple (maybe the bachelor parties?) that I would put at solid A.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:45 PM   #42
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Good mentions of snubs:

http://news.yahoo.com/emmy-nominatio...183756503.html
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:18 PM   #43
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Two things I found odd. Joan Cusack nominated as a guest actress in Shameless. A bit of a stretch to call her a guest. She seems to be in every episode and is excellent.

The other is Matt LeBlanc for Episodes. It seems like that hasn't been on for a long time. I think he was wonderful in the show and hope it comes back, but it sure doesn't feel like a last year series to me.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:07 PM   #44
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Some comments about the cable vs broadcast discussion:
1) Cable is typically 12 episodes versus 22 episodes on broadcast. This allows the writers time to architect a good season script arc.

2) Cable is typically filmed with cheaper budget structures versus broadcast allowing for a little less pressure to hit the numbers and they typically get to show all 12 before they get cut.

3) There have been articles written that say a lot of talented movie writers/actors/producers are moving from movies to cable because they can't get their stuff made. Movies want the blockbuster and the quick win like broadcast. This may be reason for better product in cable.

4) Cable has a revenue stream beyond advertising.

5) And has been mentioned cable is willing to push the limits.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:50 PM   #45
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Some comments about the cable vs broadcast discussion:
1) Cable is typically 12 episodes versus 22 episodes on broadcast. This allows the writers time to architect a good season script arc.

2) Cable is typically filmed with cheaper budget structures versus broadcast allowing for a little less pressure to hit the numbers and they typically get to show all 12 before they get cut.

3) There have been articles written that say a lot of talented movie writers/actors/producers are moving from movies to cable because they can't get their stuff made. Movies want the blockbuster and the quick win like broadcast. This may be reason for better product in cable.

4) Cable has a revenue stream beyond advertising.

5) And has been mentioned cable is willing to push the limits.
TV is where writers flourish and actors are finally starting to realize that playing the same character for weeks on end allows them the chance to go deeper and really develop their craft. Movies today are either huge-budget blockbusters that are all about special effects and editing and have very little to do with acting ability, or they are tiny-budget indie flicks that everyone pats each other on the back for but don't make any money.

Other than for a few very A-list actors, TV is becoming the preferred medium for actors that truly want a chance to inhabit a character and connect with the material and their audience.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:51 PM   #46
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I actually find the Netflix nominations odd. Not That Spacey and Wright are not deserving but that a series that is strictly view on demand is considered for a Prime Time Emmy.
Except we knew that from the beginning. Netflix verified with the Academy that their shows would be eligible, so people have been discussing the very likely nominations for Spacey, Wright, and House of Cards for many months.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:19 PM   #47
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The way to watch TV has nothing to do with quality. So that's a different point altogether. I could watch most network shows on my portable device or PC as well or on a DVR on my own schedule.

I agree, some of the broadcast network practices are forcing them to fall behind. I also think that there is too much pressure on success on broadcast networks. So many shows are just cast adrift after 2-3 episodes these days. Usually on cable the series is given the chance to at least finish it's run. Still, I don't feel the FCC restraints as much as financial restraints are the reason why the broadcast networks are falling behind. With the stakes so high, there's little reason to risk anything....thus, you get 15 variations of American Idol. And can someone tell me what the difference is between AI, The Voice and all these others? They are essentially the same show. What makes the shows are the judges. Otherwise they are exactly the same.
I watch everything on at least 50 inch screens fwiw (Netflix, directv, DVD/bluray, torrents, etc)

And the difference between AI and the Voice is that AI sucks.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #48
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The Emmy awards have come a long way since their historically ridiculous snubbing of The Wire.
Best. Show. Ever.






until Breaking Bad came along....
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:30 PM   #49
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Some comments about the cable vs broadcast discussion:
1) Cable is typically 12 episodes versus 22 episodes on broadcast. This allows the writers time to architect a good season script arc.

2) Cable is typically filmed with cheaper budget structures versus broadcast allowing for a little less pressure to hit the numbers and they typically get to show all 12 before they get cut.

3) There have been articles written that say a lot of talented movie writers/actors/producers are moving from movies to cable because they can't get their stuff made. Movies want the blockbuster and the quick win like broadcast. This may be reason for better product in cable.

4) Cable has a revenue stream beyond advertising.

5) And has been mentioned cable is willing to push the limits.
One other add. I don't want hear how important OTA is to Tivo. I can't think of another reason better than this to show it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:26 PM   #50
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It may not be important to you, but it is important to many of us. Even if it is just for those periods when cable is not working, or one decides to cut off the cable company for their outrageous fees.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:49 PM   #51
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One other add. I don't want hear how important OTA is to Tivo. I can't think of another reason better than this to show it.
I have no idea what you're referring to here. Without context, this comment seems totally out of place in this thread.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:02 PM   #52
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I have no idea what you're referring to here. Without context, this comment seems totally out of place in this thread.
OTA = Broadcast which is being discussed in this thread.

Context is that most of the nominated shows are on vehicles not offered by OTA (Broadcast) and that OTA for Tivo is becoming irrelevant.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:15 PM   #53
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OTA = Broadcast which is being discussed in this thread.

Context is that most of the nominated shows are on vehicles not offered by OTA (Broadcast) and that OTA for Tivo is becoming irrelevant.
I know what OTA stands for. I just found the part about TiVo to be odd. The newest TiVo models don't even support OTA anymore, so I'm not sure what the point of that comment was.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:12 PM   #54
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No nods for Keri Russell or Noah Emmerich? TSK!

Hope Margo Martindale wins for Best Guest Actress- Go "Granny" Go!!!
..and Matthew Rhys! OOPS!
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:30 AM   #55
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I know what OTA stands for. I just found the part about TiVo to be odd. The newest TiVo models don't even support OTA anymore, so I'm not sure what the point of that comment was.
As I don't own a TiVo I'm not quite sure what TiVo has to do with the discussion. I'm assuming by OTA he means the broadcast Networks (ABC, NBC, etc.) as opposed to Cable and OD channels. Perhaps he means that with OTA it gives you more flexibility when to watch those shows which are usually shown only once, where cable shows, (especially the premiums) are shown multiple times. I THINK that's what he's getting at.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:40 AM   #56
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OTA = Broadcast which is being discussed in this thread.

Context is that most of the nominated shows are on vehicles not offered by OTA (Broadcast) and that OTA for Tivo is becoming irrelevant.
Your premise is a bit flawed, as these are shows nominated for Emmys, not 'most watched' programs. The highest rated and watched shows would still be on broadcast, though that gap is closing somewhat.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:49 AM   #57
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Disappointed Tatiana Maslany wasn't nominated for Orphan Black. I realize it doesn't fit the Emmy mold, but her performance was incredible.
She wuz robbed! A great performance!
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:57 AM   #58
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Another factor in the broadcast/cable nominations discussion is that cable shows get more respect these days, even while excellent performances co-exist on broadcast. Monica Potter should have been a lock for her season on Parenthood, but she was shut out.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:37 AM   #59
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Another factor in the broadcast/cable nominations discussion is that cable shows get more respect these days, even while excellent performances co-exist on broadcast. Monica Potter should have been a lock for her season on Parenthood, but she was shut out.
Yep, I got that feeling too. It's the "cool" thing to vote for a cable show. And we know the "critics" love everything cable.

I agree about Monica Potter, and I really wasn't a fan of hers before last season. I thought she was excellent, and Parenthood could easily have been considered for an Emmy. It's an excellent show. And that's the kind of thing I was talking about earlier. Parenthood is not "gritty" or "provocative". It does cover adult topics, but in a way that even older children can watch and it can promote discussion. If this show was on cable, with cursing and actual sex being shown, it would be a completely different show, and IMO, not nearly as well done, because it would have been too easy to resort to that sort of stuff. It's proof that a family drama could be well written, and on broadcast TV and be quality without being edgy.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:42 AM   #60
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Maybe Monica Potter would have gotten a nom if she had shaved her head instead of wearing that distracting skin helmet.
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