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Old 05-07-2013, 08:58 AM   #1
TZR916
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Question Want Live Tv in 5 rooms - What's best way?

I will be moving into a house and want Live Tv and ability to watch recordings off my Elite in at least four other rooms. The rooms have coax. I have Comcast Cable.

Looked at stream - Don't like because of ios only, video quality, and no hdmi out.

Looked at mini - Don't like because it ties up Elite tuner and needs subscription.

Can I do this with additional cable card Tivo's but no added subscriptions? What can a cable card Tivo do (or not do) without a subscription? Which cable card Tivo model(s) can I use?
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:04 AM   #2
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Wait for dynamic tuner allocation for the mini is one option to consider. Do you need 5 rooms with live tv (which I personally don't understand, but clearly remains popular) at the same time?

Otherwise, lifetime for the mini or additional tivos will reduce subscription fees.

Also, there are strong indications of a new box this fall. More tuners are in the rumor mill.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:15 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by TZR916 View Post
Can I do this with additional cable card Tivo's but no added subscriptions? What can a cable card Tivo do (or not do) without a subscription? Which cable card Tivo model(s) can I use?
No. Watch live TV and any previously recorded shows (no transfers). None.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:32 AM   #4
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No. Watch live TV and any previously recorded shows (no transfers). None.
Huh? "none"?

Exactly what can a cable card Tivo do without a subscription?
Live Tv?
Record?
Pause?
See/Play recordings off main Tivo via moca?
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:50 AM   #5
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I believe a premiere becomes a brick. Earlier software versions would allow minimum functionality, with nag screens.

Older units had some functionality, but i think that was limited to channel changing an manual recordings. No transfers.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:40 AM   #6
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Huh? "none"?
You wanted to know which model you could use without a sub and get recordings from your main Tivo. None of them will allow you to do that without a sub.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TZR916 View Post

Exactly what can a cable card Tivo do without a subscription?
Live Tv?
Record?
Pause?
See/Play recordings off main Tivo via moca?
Live tv is all it can do, but w/o the 30 minute buffer so no pause, rw,ff, etc.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:05 PM   #8
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Do you need live TV in all 5 rooms simultaneously? If so then multiple TiVos, with subscriptions and CableCARDs, are your only option. Even with multiple Minis and and XL4 you can only dedicate 2 tuners for remote viewing, so you'd only ever get live TV in 3 rooms at a time. (main room, and two extra locations)
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:07 PM   #9
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While not a Tivo solution, a Windows Media Center PC with cablecard tuners and four media extenders will do what you want. Only service cost is Comcast subscription and cablecard rental (I believe Comcast gives you the first one free; no Tivo fees). Extenders share tuners on main PC and allow you to watch recorded shows and live TV on any extender. You also have complete control and access to HTPC program guide and scheduled recordings list. Here are the currently available cablecard tuners and media extenders:

Ceton InfiniTV4 cablecard tuner has four tuners; PCI-e and USB versions available.
SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime cablecard tuner has three tuners and connects to network. Four-tuner model is reportedly in the works.
Hauppauge 2650 cablecard tuner is a dual tuner model; 3650 is a three tuner version. I believe both are made for Hauppauge by SiliconDust.

Media extenders are the X-Box 360 and the Ceton Echo. The Echo does not yet work with Windows 8. There are older extenders from Linksys, HP, and D-Link that will work with Windows 7 and are available on ebay quite often.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by TZR916 View Post
Can I do this with additional cable card Tivo's but no added subscriptions? What can a cable card Tivo do (or not do) without a subscription? Which cable card Tivo model(s) can I use?
Cable card is only optional, not required for the operation of a Tivo.
Without a Tivo subscription, the Tivo will not operate, record, transfer, stream, only watch Live TV no trick play. So basically nothing.

You do not need a Tivo in every room if you do not want to record anything, just use the cable co's cable box to watch Live TV.

If you use Tivo, then the shows must be recorded to be transferred or streamed to another Tivo. You would not need a cable card in every Tivo to be able to watch on them. If you want to save on the cable card rental rates, you can have 1 or 2 Tivos with a cable card as a designated recorder and then stream/transfer to other Tivos in other rooms.

The Tivo models available today in retail markets is
Premiere, 2 tuner, OTA, cable, 75 hrs (TCD746500)
Premiere 4, 4 tuner, digital cable only, 75 hrs (TCD750500)
Premiere 4XL, 4 tuner, digital cable only, 300 hrs (TCD758000)

Subscriptions are 14.99/month or 499.99 lifetime of the box
secondary subscriptions (MSD) are 12.99/month or 399.99 lifetime of the box.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZR916 View Post
Exactly what can a cable card Tivo do without a subscription?
Live Tv?
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by TZR916 View Post
Record?
Pause?
Pausing and manual recording are possible with some Premiere software versions and settings. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...=466201&page=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by TZR916 View Post
See/Play recordings off main Tivo...?
Two Premieres with TiVo service are not required to transfer recordings from one room to another room. One TiVo with service and a computer connected to a TV in another room be used for that.

CableCARD fees can be substantial.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:19 AM   #12
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Dang it really sucks that whole home solutions are so expensive, are based on networked extenders, and/or require monthly fees. So sad that Tv's stopped coming with built in cable cards. And just ridiculous that a stand alone cable card box doesn't even exist....

Given the facts here's my (revised) minimum requirements-
Do NOT tie up more than 1 tuner on Elite.
Live Tv & access to Elite recordings in Master Bedroom only.
Just live Tv in the 3 other bedrooms.

For starters, I will likely just go with my Elite in the living room, a mini in the master bedroom, and rent 3 boxes from comcast for the other bedrooms. All that I would need-
Mini w/lifetime $250
3 comcast boxes
total $250 & $20/mo rentals
or non-lifetime $100 + $26/mo rentals/sub


I do like the Ceton solution because I am a HTPC nut. I can see this in my future. I would need:
update HTPC from XP to Windows 7 $100
hdmi video card $100
4 Tuner Ceton card/box $200 (promo discounted)
3 Ceton Extenders $450 (promo discounted)
at least 4 moca adapters $200
Total = $1050

Most expensive but easiest solution, I could go with multiple minis but I would need another 4 tuner Tivo because I would not get my 5 room goal AND I hate the idea of tieing up all the tuners on my main Elite. I would need-
Tivo Premier 4 w/lifetime $650
3 Minis w/lifetime $750
Total $1400
or non-lifetime $530 + $31/mo subs


Questions about the mini-
Can the Elite and the Mini be tuned to the same live tv channel at the same time?
Can I start watching a recording on my Elite then finish watching it on the Mini?
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:57 PM   #13
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Only 2 of a Premiere 4's tuners can be allocated for use by the Minis for live TV, so to use more than 2 minis simultaneously for Live TV you'd need the additional TiVo anyway.

Not sure how you're arriving at a total of only $20/mo for 3 Comcast boxes. Here it would is be $9.95/mo per box + one $10/mo "HD Technology fee" (assuming at least one is an HD Box). There would also be a net $7.45/mo for the additional TiVo ($9.95/mo "Additional Digital Outlet" fee -$2.50/mo "Customer Owned Equipment" credit)
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:36 PM   #14
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I guess comcast fees are different here-
Cable card $1.10/mo
SD rental boxes $6.25 each/mo (after owned equipment credit)
Total $19.85/mo

Questions about the mini for the Master bedroom-
Can the Elite and the Mini be tuned to the same live tv channel at the same time?
Can I start watching a recording on my Elite then finish watching it on the Mini?
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:53 PM   #15
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For 5 rooms you could get 2 TP-4s and 3 Minis, all have built in Moca so you would end up with 5 tuners available at one time to record and could watch what you wanted from any of the five rooms, cost from $1900 to $2200 and you will need to rent 2 cable cards. If one of your TP-4s is not near your router you will need a Moca adapter that TiVo sells for about $50. This is a lot of money if you don't have older TiVos to sell.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:21 AM   #16
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Taking the plunge with WMC on HTPC, Ceton 6 Tuner, Extenders. Picked up second cable card (verified is't +$1.50/mo). Have it up and running with one extender. Cost so far-
$60 -Win7 Pro 64bit
$62 -Additional RAM for HTPC
$47 -HDMI video card
$372 -Ceton ETH6 & Ceton Echo Extender
$32 -Gigabit switch

$573 Total

If I add 2 more extenders at $150 each, then my total will be $873. My main concern now is running network cable to the bedrooms or using moca adapters- cost vs PITA....
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:22 PM   #17
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Sounds to me that it would be cheaper to go with Comcast and their new X1 or X2 system if its in your area. If it isn't you can still play back in any room what is recorded on their DVR and control it like you are sitting in the room with it. I have a TivoHD and a Comcast DVR. It's $9.95 a month for the special box they offer to watch what's recorded on their DVR in another room. You might want to price there stuff.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:54 PM   #18
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Sounds to me that it would be cheaper to go with Comcast and their new X1 or X2 system....
X1 looks nice but knowing Comcast: 5 rooms means 5 HD boxes to pay monthly rental fees on. Just guessing from past experience, that could be $15 for the first HD box plus $6/ea for the other 4 HD boxes. That's $40/mo in rental fees. Similar to adding Mini subscriptions to my Elite...
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:00 PM   #19
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TZR, I don't know much about the Mini, does it have it's own tuner like the Comcast HD boxes or is it only for watching what is coming thru the Tivo box? I don't have the X1 or X2 set up here yet. What they have given me is a HD cable box that can control the DVR in another room and play back what it recorded on it. It's hard to figure out what it is costing me because its all part of a bundle I have. The bundle is called HD Complete XF and is $199 and it includes every paid movie channel, the sports channels, phone and internet with wireless modem, 3 additional outlets , HD service, any room DVR service. I also get to use their nation wide hot spots. My wife connects to one of them where she works with her smart phone so she isn't using up her data amount. What they lack which is one of the reasons I bought the TivoHD is the ability to transfer recorded shows to my computer, edit them and then send that back to the Tivo.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:49 AM   #20
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The TiVo mini doesn't have it's own tuner, it uses the tuners in the premier; if allowed. If you want 5 live TV options with only TiVo units you'd need 2 premiers 4 tuners TiVo units and 3 TiVo minis. The premier loses access to each tuner you give up to the TiVo minis: regardless whether the minis are using them or not. I watch so little live tv I don't dedicate any of the tuners to my mini. If you have 2-4 tuner premiers you'd lose 3 tuners on one and 2 for the other. I'd recommend not dedicating any of the tuners to the minis and simply record anything you'd want to watch since the minis can stream the video once it's being recorded. If you don't dedicate any tuners you could get a single premier 4 and 4 minis.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #21
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We also watch very little live TV. Even if its just to get about 15 minutes of the show recorded and then start watching it so we can skip the commercials. What is normal for us to do is not to start watching TV until about 9 pm. That way during the regular season the shows that come on at 8 pm we start to watch at 9 pm and continue that way thru the night. Going to bed a little after midnight after watching the Chelsea lately show. The leno and letterman and thee rest of the late night talk shows usually only have one guest we like and will record them and watch just the 10 or 15 minutes the one guest is on there. Between the TiVo HD and the Comcast DVR we only watch about 2 hours of live TV a week.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:04 AM   #22
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Taking the plunge with WMC on HTPC, Ceton 6 Tuner, Extenders. Picked up second cable card (verified is't +$1.50/mo). Have it up and running with one extender. Cost so far-
$60 -Win7 Pro 64bit
$62 -Additional RAM for HTPC
$47 -HDMI video card
$372 -Ceton ETH6 & Ceton Echo Extender
$32 -Gigabit switch

$573 Total

If I add 2 more extenders at $150 each, then my total will be $873. My main concern now is running network cable to the bedrooms or using moca adapters- cost vs PITA....
Added another Echo and an xbox360. Ran Cat5e to all three bedrooms. System is up and running, got all the bugs out and the wife loves automatic commercial skip!

Turned in Tivo's cable card, disconnected Tivo cable line, copied and wiped Tivo season passes. As soon as we finish watching some old recordings it's going up for sale-

TDC758250 Elite branded XL4, original purchase 3/2012, with transferable Best Buy Extended Warranty expires 3/2014, original receipt & box (pm if interested).
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:28 PM   #23
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The directv genie will give you 5 tuners, and the ability to watch live TV in 4 bedrooms at the same time.

I think you can get more live Tv outlets with an upgraded dish/switch.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:11 AM   #24
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If you use Tivo, then the shows must be recorded to be transferred or streamed to another Tivo. You would not need a cable card in every Tivo to be able to watch on them. If you want to save on the cable card rental rates, you can have 1 or 2 Tivos with a cable card as a designated recorder and then stream/transfer to other Tivos in other rooms. " chợ xưa "
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:35 AM   #25
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The directv genie will give you 5 tuners, and the ability to watch live TV in 4 bedrooms at the same time.

I think you can get more live Tv outlets with an upgraded dish/switch.
Tivo, Satellite, & Comcast all charge monthly fees for EVERY box.

Your Direct Tv idea would cost $68/mo in box fees alone (goes to $78/mo after 2yrs). That's insane!

Tivo XL4 with 3x minis would be $32/mo.

HTPC with 6 tuners/one cable card is $1.50/mo.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:46 AM   #26
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Tivo, Satellite, & Comcast all charge monthly fees for EVERY box.

Your Direct Tv idea would cost $68/mo in box fees alone (goes to $78/mo after 2yrs). That's insane!

Tivo XL4 with 3x minis would be $32/mo.

HTPC with 6 tuners/one cable card is $1.50/mo.
Genie DVR = $10 a month
3 Genie Minis = $6 * 3 = $18 a month

$0 down
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:01 PM   #27
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Genie DVR = $10 a month
3 Genie Minis = $6 * 3 = $18 a month

$0 down
We are both wrong. Direct Tv box fees are:
1x $25/mo "Advanced Receiver" fee (-$10/mo for 2yrs)
3x Minis $6 => $18
Total = $33/mo ($43/mo after 2yrs)

2 years of fees pays for my 6 tuner ETH and three extenders.
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