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Old 05-28-2012, 10:08 AM   #61
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Why wont tivo release a soft wear update for the tivo hds anymore? tivo hd does have a h.264 decoder in it so it should work. i feel like my tivo hd is being abandoned by tivo.
I don't know. I think TiVo will cave if/when H.264 becomes widespread and they start getting flooded with calls.

If TiVo wants to force people to upgrade, then the least they could do is allow a TSN swap for monthly subscribers, or a $199 lifetime service transfer.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:47 PM   #62
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Update on TiVo/fios/mpeg4

Hbo and Cinemax went mpeg4 on fios

If I tuned to these, I got a cable card diag screen

I called fios, he spent 40 minutes manually updating my cable cards on all 3 tivos. One premiere and 2 TiVo HDs. They all work now!!!

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Fios/vh06 Boston
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:04 PM   #63
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Update on TiVo/fios/mpeg4

Hbo and Cinemax went mpeg4 on fios

If I tuned to these, I got a cable card diag screen

I called fios, he spent 40 minutes manually updating my cable cards on all 3 tivos. One premiere and 2 TiVo HDs. They all work now!!!

FYI

Fios/vh06 Boston
I could be wrong but I don't think those channels went mpeg4. I think they just instituted the copy once flag and required the cable cards to be paired directly to the device that they're in.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:25 PM   #64
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You might be right

That would explain why the tivohd units are working
Too

Ill try some copy transfers tomorrow to see
If it got turned on
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:52 AM   #65
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They just enabled the copy protection. I wish they would convert all the premium channels to MPEG4. That would free up alot of space to add more HD channels.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:56 AM   #66
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Yes except until they fix their qam mapping, promised almost 2 yrs ago, they can't add more than a handful
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:48 AM   #67
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So, to reopen this thread

Did anyone with a tivohd see any problems?
Has FIOS made more channels H.264?
Did anyone scream at TIVO about this? I read somewhere that people were given very good prices on Premier units when they complained that they lost channels.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #68
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There have been a few new H.264 channels added, notably BeIN Sport, on channel 598, which is available without a premium package (you might need Ultimate, though; I'm not sure). None of the existing channels have been converted, AFAIK. They announced a group as transitioning back in April, but then they postponed it, with no new date.

The H.264 channels still don't work on Series 3's (including HD's).
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:07 PM   #69
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There have been a few new H.264 channels added, notably BeIN Sport, on channel 598, which is available without a premium package (you might need Ultimate, though; I'm not sure). None of the existing channels have been converted, AFAIK. They announced a group as transitioning back in April, but then they postponed it, with no new date.

The H.264 channels still don't work on Series 3's (including HD's).
Wow. It sure seems that Tivo missed a great opportunity to add H.264 support for Series 3 units when they sent out 11.0m to fix the cookie problem.

They could have fixed all the inconsistencies in the UI too, like 'Now Playing' nomenclature, etc.

But we all know that tivo isn't really in it to help customers
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:13 PM   #70
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Wow. It sure seems that Tivo missed a great opportunity to add H.264 support for Series 3 units when they sent out 11.0m to fix the cookie problem.

.................
Why would they do that? There needs to be a reason to upgrade to the newer boxes.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:45 PM   #71
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Wow. It sure seems that Tivo missed a great opportunity to add H.264 support for Series 3 units when they sent out 11.0m to fix the cookie problem.

They could have fixed all the inconsistencies in the UI too, like 'Now Playing' nomenclature, etc.

But we all know that tivo isn't really in it to help customers
Many of the S3's with lifetime subscriptions are so old that they can't be counted as subscriptions anymore and more and more are rolling off every day. There probably aren't enough monthly S3 subscriptions to make this worthwhile.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:37 PM   #72
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Wow. It sure seems that Tivo missed a great opportunity to add H.264 support for Series 3 units when they sent out 11.0m to fix the cookie problem.

They could have fixed all the inconsistencies in the UI too, like 'Now Playing' nomenclature, etc.

But we all know that tivo isn't really in it to help customers
They are not going to add any more features to the S3 platform... EVER! The only reason they even released this version is because a time bomb bug broke something that had to be fixed. The S3 platform is dead. If you want new features you'll have to buy a new box.

And the same will be true of the Premiere units eventually too. At some point TiVo will EOL the Premiere as a means of enticing people to buy new Series5 boxes. That's just how their business works.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:06 PM   #73
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Actually I can't comment on whether 11.0m supports H.264, although I'll be surprised if it does. I'm still on 11.0k, as I think are most Series 3's.

I'm expecting just the cookie fix in 11.0m (I think this has already been confirmed to be there), but I'll look for other changes when I get it.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:53 PM   #74
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They are not going to add any more features to the S3 platform... EVER! The only reason they even released this version is because a time bomb bug broke something that had to be fixed. The S3 platform is dead. If you want new features you'll have to buy a new box.

And the same will be true of the Premiere units eventually too. At some point TiVo will EOL the Premiere as a means of enticing people to buy new Series5 boxes. That's just how their business works.
I don't think any good co would take that view, you would have natural limits on what the hardware could do, but you should never have a loss of functionality that software could fix, if I remember TiVo fixed the DST time problem with the Series 1 TiVos, and both Series 1 and Series 2 TiVos can still work, just not in HD, I think TiVo has done a good job with what they had to work with.

I worked for a co that put new products all the time, not to make their old products obsolete but to give customers more functionality as better hardware components at lower prices came on the market. We supported out products for at least 10 years.

in 1996 TiVo could have never made a TiVo that would do HD when it came out in what 2004 or 2005 there were no low priced components to do it with. The first drives (I think)were 15Gb to keep the price reasonable.
Every co must balance functionality with price, having great TiVo type functionality costing $30,000 would be of no value for the retail market.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #75
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The only two bugs TiVo has ever updated in obsolete hardware is the DST issue and now the TiVoToGo cookie issue. Both are show stopper bugs that completely broke core functionality. The S3 was never sold with the promise of supporting H.264, so this isn't a bug it's a limitation of an obsolete platform. TiVo has no business incentive to add support now. Especially when they're about to release another new platform making the S3 two generations old.

If they release another software update for the S3 or anything other then the cookie fixed I will be truly shocked.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:22 PM   #76
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The only two bugs TiVo has ever updated in obsolete hardware is the DST issue and now the TiVoToGo cookie issue. Both are show stopper bugs that completely broke core functionality. The S3 was never sold with the promise of supporting H.264, so this isn't a bug it's a limitation of an obsolete platform. TiVo has no business incentive to add support now. Especially when they're about to release another new platform making the S3 two generations old.

If they release another software update for the S3 or anything other then the cookie fixed I will be truly shocked.
Will the hardware of the TiVo-HD support H.264 with ease if only TiVo would do some software work ?
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:48 PM   #77
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Will the hardware of the TiVo-HD support H.264 with ease if only TiVo would do some software work ?
It does it now, in New Zealand. And it does it here, but only in the context of pushed files (TiVoCasts, etc.), or HME streams (in both cases using MP4 containers rather than transport streams).
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Old 07-21-2013, 12:02 AM   #78
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Yes the hardware supports H.264. In fact the same basic hardware was used in the Aus/NZ units and they actually support H.264 channels. So this is purely a business thing. They have not sold a new S3 unit in over 3 years, they have not released a software update for it in over 2. The platform is obsolete. The chance of them investing anything in upgrading the S3 software at this point, even if it's not that much work, is slim to none. They have no incentive to do it. Proliferation of H.264 is not very wide spread anyway and for those that need it they have a platform that supports it. Investing money into the S3 right now makes no financial sense to them. Most, if not all, of the lifetime S3 units have long since been written off the books and are actually costing them money now. And I doubt there enough monthly units out there to finance an upgrade.

The platform is dead. If you want H.264 get a Premiere, or better yet wait a couple months and get a Series 5 instead.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:14 AM   #79
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Yes the hardware supports H.264. In fact the same basic hardware was used in the Aus/NZ units and they actually support H.264 channels. So this is purely a business thing. They have not sold a new S3 unit in over 3 years, they have not released a software update for it in over 2. The platform is obsolete. The chance of them investing anything in upgrading the S3 software at this point, even if it's not that much work, is slim to none. They have no incentive to do it. Proliferation of H.264 is not very wide spread anyway and for those that need it they have a platform that supports it. Investing money into the S3 right now makes no financial sense to them. Most, if not all, of the lifetime S3 units have long since been written off the books and are actually costing them money now. And I doubt there enough monthly units out there to finance an upgrade.

The platform is dead. If you want H.264 get a Premiere, or better yet wait a couple months and get a Series 5 instead.
And that's the truth of it!

If someone doesn't approve of TiVo's business decisions, they should start a DVR company, risk $millions of investment, and run it the way they think is "fair" to the consumer. (And say goodbye to your investment.)

No actually, I'd prefer you start a new Cable company and compete with TWC in my neighborhood! And don't use Tuning Adapters!
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:21 PM   #80
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I think it's a mistake not adding h.264 support to the current series 3 boxes. They've done it in other geographic locations, so it shouldn't be a big leap. It's just a matter of garnering good will/loyalty with your customer base. The lack of support for h.264 just makes me less likely to buy another Tivo any time soon.

If someone doesn't approve of Tivo's business decisions, they don't need to start their own, they just need to spend their money elsewhere.

I'll wait and see what the series 5 has to offer but I'll probably have a more cynical view of the product.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:53 AM   #81
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I think it's a mistake not adding h.264 support to the current series 3 boxes. They've done it in other geographic locations, so it shouldn't be a big leap. It's just a matter of garnering good will/loyalty with your customer base. The lack of support for h.264 just makes me less likely to buy another Tivo any time soon.

If someone doesn't approve of Tivo's business decisions, they don't need to start their own, they just need to spend their money elsewhere.

I'll wait and see what the series 5 has to offer but I'll probably have a more cynical view of the product.
And that's entirely your right. But I bet TiVo views customers like you as acceptable losses. The amount of resources it would require to bring H.264 support to the S3 platform, not just costs, but development resources, support resources, beta testing resources, etc... are simply not worth it. The feature would only benefit a small percentage of customers anyway, and any goodwill they may garner would likely not be worth the amount of resources it would require to deploy.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:06 AM   #82
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And that's entirely your right. But I bet TiVo views customers like you as acceptable losses. The amount of resources it would require to bring H.264 support to the S3 platform, not just costs, but development resources, support resources, beta testing resources, etc... are simply not worth it. The feature would only benefit a small percentage of customers anyway, and any goodwill they may garner would likely not be worth the amount of resources it would require to deploy.
I posted in some other thread that only TiVo knows how many Series 3 units are on cable systems that are converting to MPEG 4 and because this is not happening all at once will have data on what people do (Keep their Series 3 anyway, buy a new Premiere, or drop TiVo). With those 2 pieces of data TiVo can make a reasonably well informed business decision on what to do (nothing or update the software).

My guess is they will do nothing. If the new hardware is anywhere near as good as I expect it to be living with a Series 3's limitations (no ability to stream to another DVR/Mini/Stream, no MPEG 4, only 2 tuners, limited apps, multiple cable cards for the original S3, etc.) will be unacceptable for many (most?) people.

I honestly think Series 3 units just need to get sold to someone looking for a good & cheap OTA DVR.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:15 AM   #83
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And I doubt there enough monthly units out there to finance an upgrade.
Yeah but this is what is wrong with charging obsolete units $15 a month for 'service' - it's way more than the cost of providing guide data so you're essentially throwing money at Tivo for next to nothing because they won't address issues like these.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:20 AM   #84
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Yeah but this is what is wrong with charging obsolete units $15 a month for 'service' - it's way more than the cost of providing guide data so you're essentially throwing money at Tivo for next to nothing.
No one should be paying $15/mo for a Series 3 unit, but you are correct that anyone paying monthly for older units isn't getting a very good deal. My guess is anyone paying monthly on a Series 3 or older unit could get it reduced to $6.95 by calling and asking to cancel service.
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Old 07-22-2013, 09:51 AM   #85
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No one should be paying $15/mo for a Series 3 unit, but you are correct that anyone paying monthly for older units isn't getting a very good deal. My guess is anyone paying monthly on a Series 3 or older unit could get it reduced to $6.95 by calling and asking to cancel service.
Or get Lifetime service for $99, that would bring up the resale price about $200 to $300 on E-Bay.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:17 PM   #86
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The bottom line on all of this is brand loyalty. Tivo, and for that matter, Garmin, have this assumption that the 'next best thing' should be different in core functionality that it was before. It does become confusing to the customer when the core functionality changes.

On the Tivo, a small thing like 'Now Playing' is now 'My shows' in newer units is a change that can be confusing to people. The shows looking on a premiere at another tivo, show full hd gui when looking at another premiere, but the old SD gui when looking at a TivoHD, and lots of easy to 'fix' things like that. H.264 is a perfect example. Look how many statements are need to answer the question 'Does the TivoHD support H.264 ?' Yes, if this, yes, in hardware, no if coming in on cable, but it could be easily done, blah blah. See the confusion.

Garmin adds a feature, example, dashboards. And one generation later, takes it away, because they had a better idea.

The basic gui should be consistent. The company should give a customer an easy way to coexist and also to upgrade units. Tivo doesnt allow xfer of lifetime, oreven a good way to move all your programs off your tivoHD to a premiere. That in itself, is keeping customers off of new units

Little things they've tried, like moving season passes on their web site, doesnt work well, and has never been fixed.

Fixing these loose thread items, as I call them, really does pay back in the long run, with customer loyalty.

The bottom line, to customers that arent very tech savvy, is a hodgepodge of products that kind of loosley work together, but not well.

Whether it really is true, or just a perception, to the non-tech person, perception is reality.

My $0.02
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:09 PM   #87
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Moving season passes online worked well for me when transferring them to my Elites. Or when transferring them between Elites.
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Old 07-23-2013, 02:11 AM   #88
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The bottom line on all of this is brand loyalty. Tivo, and for that matter, Garmin, have this assumption that the 'next best thing' should be different in core functionality that it was before. It does become confusing to the customer when the core functionality changes.

On the Tivo, a small thing like 'Now Playing' is now 'My shows' in newer units is a change that can be confusing to people. The shows looking on a premiere at another tivo, show full hd gui when looking at another premiere, but the old SD gui when looking at a TivoHD, and lots of easy to 'fix' things like that. H.264 is a perfect example. Look how many statements are need to answer the question 'Does the TivoHD support H.264 ?' Yes, if this, yes, in hardware, no if coming in on cable, but it could be easily done, blah blah. See the confusion.

Garmin adds a feature, example, dashboards. And one generation later, takes it away, because they had a better idea.

The basic gui should be consistent. The company should give a customer an easy way to coexist and also to upgrade units. Tivo doesnt allow xfer of lifetime, oreven a good way to move all your programs off your tivoHD to a premiere. That in itself, is keeping customers off of new units

Little things they've tried, like moving season passes on their web site, doesnt work well, and has never been fixed.

Fixing these loose thread items, as I call them, really does pay back in the long run, with customer loyalty.

The bottom line, to customers that arent very tech savvy, is a hodgepodge of products that kind of loosley work together, but not well.

Whether it really is true, or just a perception, to the non-tech person, perception is reality.

My $0.02
Going forward they'll likely keep better continuity between the S4 and S5. Since they'll run the same basic software. Although eventually I expect they will still obsolete the S4 and start making any new features exclusive to the S5. As I said before that's simply how TiVo's business model is structured. They need customers to upgrade every 3-5 years.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:15 AM   #89
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While still extracting monthly money from those who don't upgrade, and giving them little to nothing in return.

I get the model and agree that people paying monthly on old boxes are making a dubious decision, but it's not right that their money is just taken for granted.
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:32 AM   #90
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While still extracting monthly money from those who don't upgrade, and giving them little to nothing in return.

I get the model and agree that people paying monthly on old boxes are making a dubious decision, but it's not right that their money is just taken for granted.
I don't know if TiVo takes them for granted but this is the basic model being used by lots of companies the most notably being cell phone and cable/satellite providers. With cell phone's they hide the cost of phones in the subscription price and never lower it and with cable/satellite they change you rental fees forever and/or build the cost of hardware into subscription costs.

My take on this is that many (most?) consumers don't want to pay for hardware upfront and/or don't want the risk of ownership. Companies understand this and make lots of money by offering monthly payments. One of my friends told me they found out a few years back that there elderly Aunt who had died was still paying a rental fee to the telephone company for her phone and had been paying it on the same phone for over 30 years. Talk about being ripped off.
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atmuscarella
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