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Old 07-04-2013, 12:37 AM   #31
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Two contestants tied tonight! I don't think they planned it that way. I did think both bets where a tad on the unusual side though.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:04 AM   #32
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I went back and rewatched the bets when I realized they had tied. The champion made a $1000 bet. The challenger, however, bet just enough that if the champ got it right and had doubled his money and the challenger got it right (he didn't) they would have tied as well.

Interesting how it ended.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:19 AM   #33
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I think the tie was planned.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:03 PM   #34
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I think the tie was planned.
That would mean collusion. Can they do that?

It certainly looks like that is what happened.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:11 PM   #35
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I suspect that there is stuff going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:19 PM   #36
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I suspect that there is stuff going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.
Absolutely not. Anything we don't see has no affect on the game.

There is a studio audience, they see everything. And if you read the Jeopardy forum (jboard), it is full of former & current contestants. They give lots of behind the scene fill in the blanks, but it's all innocuous.

Nothing goes on that isn't innocent. See my post above, #28. That's the only kind of BtS going on.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #37
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I've often pondered something else about Final Jeopardy. I was taught to underline book titles, but I've never noticed a contestant doing that when writing their answer. Considering how many of the contestants are teachers, I find that odd that none of them would underline a book title.

Perhaps they're told not to underline them for ease of reading? Anyone know?
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:40 AM   #38
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Underlining book titles? I never heard of that, except maybe in a bibliography section (which I've seen a million formats for, some of which are underlined, others are italicized, etc).

In general writing, book titles are usually just capitalized or quoted. In modern print, underlining is also considered deprecated - they much prefer bold or italics for emphasis.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:33 PM   #39
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Fascinating. Just googled this and found that many methods are acceptable. Before computers, underlining was preferable since making italics was generally harder to do.

I guess I'm showing my age.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:02 PM   #40
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If you're nervous and have only 30 seconds[*] to write something, I have a feeling that underlining it would be the last thing on your mind.

I have occasionally seen underlining (or putting movie/TV titles in quotes), but I can't point to specific examples -- you're right that it's very rare. I don't think there's a specific rule against it, though.

[*] The contestants actually have a little longer than 30 seconds, because the pen starts working once the clue is displayed, not when the music starts. Also, they're told to write either "who" or "what" during the commercial break (and it's not ruled wrong if they forget the "is" or "are").
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:26 PM   #41
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And it happened again today. Here were the stakes going into FJ:

1st: $15,000
2nd: $14,800
3rd: $7,200

All 2nd needs to do is bet $200 or more. Instead he goes all in, betting almost all of his wad. And of course, 1st bets a ton, needing to stay ahead should they both get it. 3rd bets a modest amount.

All three miss, a triple stumper. 3rd ends up winning.

Another game given away. Honestly, 2nd doesn't deserve to win. If you don't understand how to bet, or make an effort to learn before you play, I have no sympathy for you.


But if 1st and 2nd both bet small and get it right, then 2nd doesn't overtake 1st. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. 1st has to consider that 2nd bet everything, thus he/she would have to plan on making sure that he/she bet enough to maintain the lead if both of them got it right. You are only looking at it from the pov of both of them missing it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:37 PM   #42
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Let's talk FJ betting strategy, AKA second place person is an idiot. Let's call them One, Two, Three.

One & Two are close in money, both $20,000+. You know One is going to bet all/most of his money. One has to make sure he wins if he gets FJ correct. Therefore Two only needs to bet enough to pass One if One misses and Two is correct. So if One has $21,000 and Two has $20,000, Two should bet $1,001. This betting strategy has the additional benefit that if you BOTH miss, Two will only drop a little while One loses his rear-end.

This is a universally accepted strategy, and has been proven to be effective over the years. There are four outcomes for FJ and One/Two--(a) both right, (b) both wrong, (c) One right, (d) Two right. It is a given that a & c will lead to Two losing. But if Two follows this betting strategy, he can win under b & d. Whereas if he doesn't he will only win under d.

So whaddaya know--"b" happened and Two lost with a stupid all-in bet. And Three ended up winning!

I'm continually amazed how little Jeopardy contestants know about betting strategy. It can make the difference between winning & losing.


OK, so I went back to your original strategy. I get where you are coming from. But, it seems like you are giving equal weighting to each of the 4 scenarios above. I am guessing (purely a guess) that A happens more often (both right). In this case, ONE needs to make sure to bet enough to cover an all-in bet by TWO.

and when you say this phrase:

So whaddaya know--"b" happened and Two lost with a stupid all-in bet. And Three ended up winning!

It sounds like you are saying "duh". Well, what if A had happened? Then he would have looked like a genius.

I don't think it is as cut and dried as you make it sound. It becomes a lot of "wine in front of me". One, has the think that two is smart and thus will only wager a little bit. Two, has to think that one is smart and will deduce that two will wager small and thus one will wager small ... so two will wager larger to counter this. But one has already thought of this and will thus wager large to cover this. But two ... you get the picture.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:25 PM   #43
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OK, so I went back to your original strategy. I get where you are coming from. But, it seems like you are giving equal weighting to each of the 4 scenarios above. I am guessing (purely a guess) that A happens more often (both right). In this case, ONE needs to make sure to bet enough to cover an all-in bet by TWO.
I am not referring to how ONE should bet, which is what you are talking about here. I am *only* referring to the TWO bet. What ONE should bet is also well-known, and followed 90%+ of the time.

And whether the results are weighted or not doesn't matter. I already said if "A" happens TWO will lose. Same with "C". It's only B & D where betting strategy comes into play. And in "D", any reasonable bet wins. But under "B", you will only win if follow the universally accepted practice I originally described. There is an infinitesimally remote downside, versus a guaranteed upside.

All your permutations about who bets bigger or smaller don't matter, unless someone bets arky-darky, with no reason at all. That does happen on occasion (I think it happened Wed of this week), but honestly, it's so rare to see a 1st place person bet non-standard, that to try to figure that into your bet becomes, well... it's the endless loop you describe.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
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But if 1st and 2nd both bet small and get it right, then 2nd doesn't overtake 1st.
Which is why 1st shouldn't bet small.

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Originally Posted by bryhamm View Post
It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
Yes, it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryhamm View Post
1st has to consider that 2nd bet everything, thus he/she would have to plan on making sure that he/she bet enough to maintain the lead if both of them got it right.
Correct.

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You are only looking at it from the pov of both of them missing it.
No, he's not. The betting strategy is the same regardless.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:23 PM   #45
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My husband was on Jeopardy but it was 19 years ago. They had consultants helping them figure out their final bets at that time.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:03 PM   #46
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Here is a reply from one of the contestants on that episode. Talk about "from the horse's mouth". She was the current champion, and was in first place at FJ. She was not the one who made the bet I am referring to, that was the 2nd place contestant.
ok, I heard someone else mention 'consultants' on jeopardy too.. IIRC, it was one of the "Doug Loves Movies" podcasts where they were ranting about Jeopardy! wagering!
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:40 AM   #47
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I was a little disturbed by Final Jeopardy this evening.

The category was Video Game History. The question was,

"The title princess of this game, which launched a best-selling franchise was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."

I think the way it is worded is ambiguous. Do they want the name of the princess or the name of the game. I am year's away from grammar class. To me either could be right. I can see how the name of the game might be a bit more correct perhaps, but I can still read it the other way.

Spoiler:
Two of the contestants wrote down "What is Zelda" and where judged incorrect. The correct answer was "What is The Legend of Zelda."


Please, grammar police, please help!
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:40 AM   #48
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"The title princess of this game, which launched a best-selling franchise was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."

Please, grammar police, please help!
FJ will always make a reference to what they are looking for. In this case. see the bold red part. THIS GAME. You need to give the name of the game.

This happens with some regularity. A contestant will write down something that is part of the question, but is not the exact part they are looking for.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by waynomo View Post
I was a little disturbed by Final Jeopardy this evening.

The category was Video Game History. The question was,

"The title princess of this game, which launched a best-selling franchise was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."

I think the way it is worded is ambiguous. Do they want the name of the princess or the name of the game. I am year's away from grammar class. To me either could be right. I can see how the name of the game might be a bit more correct perhaps, but I can still read it the other way.

Spoiler:
Two of the contestants wrote down "What is Zelda" and where judged incorrect. The correct answer was "What is The Legend of Zelda."


Please, grammar police, please help!
"This game" is the key part. They want the name of the game, not the princess.

Still, for clarity sake, the answer would have been better worded "It is the game that launched a best-selling franchise whose title princess was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."

Last edited by LoadStar : 07-13-2013 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:07 AM   #50
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"This game" is the key part. They want the name of the game, not the princess.

Still, for clarity sake, the answer would have been better worded "It is the game that launched a best-selling franchise whose title princess was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."
Much better said!

I can still read the original as wanting the name of the princess of the game. The princess of this game is Xxxxx.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:41 PM   #51
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Still, for clarity sake, the answer would have been better worded "It is the game that launched a best-selling franchise whose title princess was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."
I don't like "franchise whose," since a franchise isn't a "who." But more importantly, that "it is" at the beginning isn't how they write "Jeopardy!" clues; their standard style would be more like "This game, which launched a best-selling franchise, featured a title princess named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife."

But I feel like that's a bit more awkward than the original -- "The title princess of this game, which launched a best-selling franchise, was named for F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife" -- mainly because she was the title princess, so of course she was "featured."

I also want to note that without having to come up with the title of the game, the question becomes "name F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife," which isn't Final Jeopardy!-level information, it's more like top-to-middle-board in the first round.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:06 PM   #52
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Saw this in the local newspaper. Found it surprising that the winner doesn't receive a payout until a few months after the show airs.

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/g..._river_default
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:14 PM   #53
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I also want to note that without having to come up with the title of the game, the question becomes "name F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife," which isn't Final Jeopardy!-level information, it's more like top-to-middle-board in the first round.
I agree. The fact that all three came up with Zelda (and probably quickly) tells you it was too easy. That two of three answered incorrectly, but the same way, tells you it was worded awkwardly. A true J aficionado would catch it, but the average player wouldn't (and didn't).
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:30 AM   #54
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Also, they're told to write either "who" or "what" during the commercial break (and it's not ruled wrong if they forget the "is" or "are").
I've always wondered if it matters if the "question" answer makes any sense, just as long as you answer in the form of a question.

For instance:

"This person played Chandler on Friends"
"When is Matthew Perry?"

or

"This is the capital of New York"
"How is Albany?"


I think it would be funny to play the whole game forming your responses like that.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:34 AM   #55
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FJ will always make a reference to what they are looking for. In this case. see the bold red part. THIS GAME. You need to give the name of the game.

This happens with some regularity. A contestant will write down something that is part of the question, but is not the exact part they are looking for.
I was watching that episode. As soon as I read the clue, I said to myself, "Zelda.... no, The Legend of Zelda!" and realized that "Zelda" would probably be considered wrong before they even got to the contestants.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #56
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I wonder if the contestants were confused by the question or the fact that most people refer to the game as simply "Zelda"?

The question isn't ambiguous to me due to the words "this game" and the fact that I read that in Trebek's voice and he would have emphasized those words when reading it.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:33 AM   #57
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I think ultimately you Jeopardy experts are correct.

My problem is that the answer should not be ambiguous. In my analysis, either answer could be correct.

I don't recall seeing anything like this before in FJ. In regular/double I have seen this. For final, sure make the question hard, but I don't think it should be so nuanced.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:41 AM   #58
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The funniest (to me) FJ happened about a month or two ago. The clue was something about "his diary entry" of April <something> 1945, read <something about having no regrets despite it all or something like that>.

I had absolutely no idea, but based on the date, I guessed Hitler.

They go to the third place contestant and she guessed Hitler, and Alex says "no... not even close."

I was like, "whoa! Dick move Alex!"

To his credit though, after they did the wager/total reveal, Alex offered a quick "sorry about that" before moving on to the next contestants.

The really funny part was that the other two guys also guessed Hitler.

I think the correct answer was Harry Truman.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:39 PM   #59
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I just re-watched Friday's FJ question again.

Trebak did emphasize "this" when reading the question. It was still a pretty subtle emphasis, but I guess that makes the difference in Jeopardy.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:57 PM   #60
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I just re-watched Friday's FJ question again.

Trebak did emphasize "this" when reading the question. It was still a pretty subtle emphasis, but I guess that makes the difference in Jeopardy.
Just to be picky, the verbal emphasis has nothing to do with the correct answer. The wording of the clue, "this game", is all any contestant needed to give the proper answer.

Trebek's emphasis may be to help the players, but one can play Jeopardy with the sound off and still solve every clue.

Well... except for the audio clues.
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