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Old 07-09-2013, 08:30 PM   #31
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I've tested for companies that don't give you anything. I like testing just to try out new things and try to break them.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:42 PM   #32
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This makes me not want to be a beta tester They just give you cheap chinese crap with tivo stickers on it? I can do that myself.
They used to give out Visa gift cards. At least I remember getting a couple in the past.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:38 PM   #33
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How would posting a trinket they give out as part of the program break the NDA about the beta TiVo hardware/software? They are basically two unrelated things from a technical perspective.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:56 PM   #34
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Generally, you're not even supposed to mention that you were in a beta. I don't know what TiVo's current beta agreement looks like, so it may have different rules.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:39 PM   #35
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Generally, you're not even supposed to mention that you were in a beta. I don't know what TiVo's current beta agreement looks like, so it may have different rules.
I'd say that in every case I've seen, the first rule of NDA club is that you can't talk about NDA club
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:24 PM   #36
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I'd say that in every case I've seen, the first rule of NDA club is that you can't talk about NDA club
Exactly. Even if something you participate in under NDA Club is over, the NDA remains in effect for perpetuity. The only way out, is if the entity you have the NDA club membership with, ceases to exist.

Saying you received a mysterious package/item, is OK. Publicly stating that you participated in an NDA Club activity, as a guess at the reason for receiving the item, is not.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:59 PM   #37
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That seems like kind of stretched out logic. Although if you say what the program is, I guess that would technically be breaking the NDA...
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:41 AM   #38
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I've tested for companies that don't give you anything. I like testing just to try out new things and try to break them.
I thought this is why people test.. not because of some gift afterwards.

Anyway, as a side note to another comment, I'm not fan of Apple, but their products are largely made in China and they are neither cheap nor crap (but that last part is debatable depending if you are a fan).
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #39
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Exactly. Even if something you participate in under NDA Club is over, the NDA remains in effect for perpetuity. The only way out, is if the entity you have the NDA club membership with, ceases to exist.

What are the consequences of breaking a NDA?
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:20 PM   #40
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Usually, disqualification from future betas. There's really little more that can be done.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:39 PM   #41
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What are the consequences of breaking a NDA?
It can be far worse than the usual disqualifications from participating in future activities, as well as terminating any active ones. For example: If hypothetically, your NDA was with TiVo, they could use termination of TiVo service as a "legal measure", rather than sue for money.

Yes, that's extreme. I don't want to start a big argument over legal precedents, or how unlikely such dramatic action may, or may not, be. In many NDAs, the entity you enter into the NDA with doesn't specify how extreme the consequences of breaking it may be. It just gets left "wide open".
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:37 PM   #42
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I don't think TiVo cares all that much that people admit to being in a beta test. They just don't want you talking about what is involved in the beta test (new software, new feature, etc.).
Also, I think TiVo kind of looks the other way when it comes to this forum.
Even though they don't admit it, TCF is a valuable resource for them.

[/speculation]

In the past, people on this forum have talked about the Tivo beta testing program, they just didn't go into details. At the time, TiVo was doing consistent Fall/Spring updates, and you could probably guess who the beta testers were in the software speculation threads and then confirm your suspicions when the software was "officially" released.

Sadly, it seems that there is not that much interest in the program these days.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:52 PM   #43
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I don't think TiVo cares all that much that people admit to being in a beta test. They just don't want you talking about what is involved in the beta test (new software, new feature, etc.).
Also, I think TiVo kind of looks the other way when it comes to this forum.
Even though they don't admit it, TCF is a valuable resource for them.

[/speculation]

In the past, people on this forum have talked about the Tivo beta testing program, they just didn't go into details. At the time, TiVo was doing consistent Fall/Spring updates, and you could probably guess who the beta testers were in the software speculation threads and then confirm your suspicions when the software was "officially" released.

Sadly, it seems that there is not that much interest in the program these days.
If you start the process to become a NDA Club member, like the first few steps of applying to become a TiVo Beta tester, or a "Field Trial" participant, one of the questionnaire screens asks if you are a member and/or participant on any public forum, as well as if you are on any social networks. TCF is actually listed as something you have to disclose, in the more specific check/don't check screens. This much can be found by any member of the public, who applies for consideration, so it is in no way a NDA violation (as you haven't agreed to one, yet).

Like I've said, it's more satisfying, for me, to not be a part of anything that effectively puts me under a gag-order. If I wasn't a forum member, and/or didn't care to discuss "stuff" (for lack of a better way to say many things), then I wouldn't mind.

In the past, simple disclosure of having -been- a participant, has mostly been pretty simple: You may just get a warning, or you may be removed from the pool of candidates for future consideration. The repercussions increase exponentially, depending on the nature of noncompliance.

In one of my past NDA Club experiences, a member spilled nearly every detail, publicly. I quickly reported the infractions. I got a personal phone call, thanking me for quickly reporting the leak. I'll never forget the words "You don't even want to know what actions we've taken against this person....". The tone, and the words, were chilling (not to be confused with cool and refreshing). The entity, which I can not even name, scrubbed all traces of what that person leaked.

I suspect that a large number of Beta testers and field trial participants have found themselves feeling "ignored", and the buggy product/software they tested was released onto the public, regardless of what they found and reported. When you do this sort of activity, and do it right, it takes a lot of work and determination. If you wind up feeling it was all for naught, why would you ever do it again?

If it wasn't for NDA Clubs, can you imagine how many people would be saying things like "I reported this, along with 21 other people, out of 30, and it was released anyway..."?

I'd rather operate outside of anything that involves a NDA. It was equally frustrating to not be able to share things that I felt the public should know, as it was to know that the entity chose to ignore its own testers and roll the product, or software, anyway (corporate deadline, trumps a known defect, or issue).

I better stop now, before I accidentally/unintentionally get too specific, and give away some detail(s) that keeps this from being a NDA Club violation.

While I am posting this on a TiVo-related public forum, I'm not saying that anything I have said is about TiVo. It is all to be taken as a broad generalization, of real-life NDA Club membership experiences.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:17 PM   #44
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In the past, people on this forum have talked about the Tivo beta testing program, they just didn't go into details. At the time, TiVo was doing consistent Fall/Spring updates, and you could probably guess who the beta testers were in the software speculation threads and then confirm your suspicions when the software was "officially" released.

Sadly, it seems that there is not that much interest in the program these days.
Not that much interest in the beta program!!, maybe that because upgraded TiVo owners are now not able to be in the beta program, and most (but not all!!) people on this forum have upgraded their TiVos hard drive.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:18 PM   #45
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Not that much interest in the beta program!!, maybe that because upgraded TiVo owners are now not able to be in the beta program, and most (but not all!!) people on this forum have upgraded their TiVos hard drive.
Even though TiVo can tell that you have changed your drive, and can still tell if you put the original back in, putting the original factory drive back in is still a hypothetical way to get around this problem. That is how you can hypothetically get around this problem, if you are that determined to try.

In the lower-octane versions of a "beta test", there are "field trials", and "open betas", where they could hypothetically not care, just to hypothetically get more participation (and perhaps, hypothetically, test the software on more units and/or analyze if there are any differences reported, or noted in the internal TiVo logs, by those who have an upgraded drive).

I think the need for the words hypothetical any hypothetically should be fairly self-explanatory. If you can't figure it out, please don't ask me about it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:07 PM   #46
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Thumbs down

Give it a rest people.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:13 PM   #47
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Give it a rest people.
I don't see the title "Moderator", Super Moderator", or "Forum Administrator" as a title for your user profile.

If you are none of these, in any official capacity, then you have no rights to tell people to "give it a rest".

I do invite you to tell an official of the forum, if you feel there is something going on that needs to be stopped, or moderated. That IS the right you do have.

back at you for, in a rough way of looking at it, telling the participants (of this thread) to "shut up".

As much as I dislike it when people flagrantly disregard/violate their NDAs, I only try to discourage such behavior. I suspect you may have good reasons to want people to let this thread just die. I've thought it would be a good idea, myself. Trying to force the hand of that happening, seemed like a bad idea to me, and am glad I thought it through. If/when it's time, the thread WILL die, and all that will remain are the archives of it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #48
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I think this thread is actually entertaining....keep it going!
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #49
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Give it a rest people.
Great suggestion!
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:55 PM   #50
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Give it a rest people.
It would've helped your cause, if you stated your objection, for starters...

One could always choose to simply not read ANY thread that you don't like the content of...

For all those who don't like the content of this thread, rather than ing people who tell the participants to give it a rest, why don't you just find your way over to the "unsubscribe" button, and click on it?

Not enough? Take it a step further, click the "ignore thread" button.

Still not enough? Find the "ignore user" button, and click on it.

Ultimately still not enough? Then why are you still here, and reading this?

This thread really should have never existed. But, it's here, and I didn't start it. You can't un-ring a bell.

I'll CMA & point out that all my solutions listed above are suggestions, not orders.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:12 AM   #51
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It would've helped your cause, if you stated your objection, for starters...

One could always choose to simply not read ANY thread that you don't like the content of...

For all those who don't like the content of this thread, rather than ing people who tell the participants to give it a rest, why don't you just find your way over to the "unsubscribe" button, and click on it?

Not enough? Take it a step further, click the "ignore thread" button.

Still not enough? Find the "ignore user" button, and click on it.

Ultimately still not enough? Then why are you still here, and reading this?
I don't see the title "Moderator", Super Moderator", or "Forum Administrator" as a title for your user profile.

If you are none of these, in any official capacity, then you have no rights to tell people what to do?

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This thread really should have never existed. But, it's here, and I didn't start it. You can't un-ring a bell.

I'll CMA & point out that all my solutions listed above are suggestions, not orders.
You must have realized that you were looking like a hypocrite.

Why is it that you tell people what to do and it's a suggestion, but someone else does it and it's an order?
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:16 AM   #52
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Even though TiVo can tell that you have changed your drive, and can still tell if you put the original back in, putting the original factory drive back in is still a hypothetical way to get around this problem. That is how you can hypothetically get around this problem, if you are that determined to try.

In the lower-octane versions of a "beta test", there are "field trials", and "open betas", where they could hypothetically not care, just to hypothetically get more participation (and perhaps, hypothetically, test the software on more units and/or analyze if there are any differences reported, or noted in the internal TiVo logs, by those who have an upgraded drive).

I think the need for the words hypothetical any hypothetically should be fairly self-explanatory. If you can't figure it out, please don't ask me about it.
I think I understand what you are saying, if you want into the beta program just change out your TiVo drives back to the originals drives, I would not want to go to that much trouble to get into the beta TiVo program.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:22 AM   #53
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I think I understand what you are saying, if you want into the beta program just change out your TiVo drives back to the originals drives, I would not want to go to that much trouble to get into the beta TiVo program.
Yes, that's what I was saying. I also share the sentiment you do about it.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:40 AM   #54
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<flammable "stuff">
This is a thread with somebody, other than me, as Original Poster. There are several contributors, and the thread has dynamically changed. What this other person posted, didn't even include a "why", or what their objection to the thread, or a post, was. They didn't quote anybody, and that doesn't just default it to being about the previous post, or directed at who posted it.

You weren't even part of the dialog between the person who said "Give it a rest people ", and me, other than rubber ing a post with no stated objection(s), or "why".

I'm sure the web/internet/TCF won't collapse under the weight of this thread.

Until, if they even bother, the other party gives their objection(s) or a "why", I'm not saying another word to YOU. Could you, please, resist the urge to throw gasoline around just to see if I set off a spark?
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:05 AM   #55
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I'd say that in every case I've seen, the first rule of NDA club is that you can't talk about NDA club
" If this is your first time at NDA Club you have to NDA "
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:26 AM   #56
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This is a thread with somebody, other than me, as Original Poster. There are several contributors, and the thread has dynamically changed. What this other person posted, didn't even include a "why", or what their objection to the thread, or a post, was. They didn't quote anybody, and that doesn't just default it to being about the previous post, or directed at who posted it.
Do you really need to be told that there is no point in beating a dead horse?

Quote:
You weren't even part of the dialog between the person who said "Give it a rest people ", and me, other than rubber ing a post with no stated objection(s), or "why".
So?

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I'm sure the web/internet/TCF won't collapse under the weight of this thread.
?

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Until, if they even bother, the other party gives their objection(s) or a "why", I'm not saying another word to YOU.
uhm, thank you.

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Could you, please, resist the urge to throw gasoline around just to see if I set off a spark?
?
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:50 AM   #57
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It would've helped your cause, if you stated your objection, for starters...
Why? To feed your wanna-be lawyer cravings?

Having participated in many a testing program over the years, for many different vendors, all this nonsense over NDAs is a pathetic waste of effort.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:33 AM   #58
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I think this thread is actually entertaining....keep it going!
+1

I, too find the subject interesting. It's not hurting anyone - unless it violates a NDA that they may fall under, and if that is the case it is their own fault.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:11 PM   #59
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Why? To feed your wanna-be lawyer cravings?

Having participated in many a testing program over the years, for many different vendors, all this nonsense over NDAs is a pathetic waste of effort.

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Old 07-19-2013, 08:22 PM   #60
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+1

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+1

I, too find the subject interesting. It's not hurting anyone - unless it violates a NDA that they may fall under, and if that is the case it is their own fault.
+1
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