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Old 07-08-2013, 06:54 AM   #31
Rob Helmerichs
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Moving goalposts should involve a back-hoe, crane, and flatbed. Making it out of Styrofoam and mounting it on wheels just isn't right.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:26 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Whats ignored is my original point that this company would have gone under 6 years ago if it wasn't for patent trolling.

They've never made a dime they didn't sue someone out of.

Let's see what happens now that the lawsuits are over.
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Patent troll is a pejorative term used for a person or company that enforces its patents against one or more alleged infringers in a manner considered unduly aggressive or opportunistic, often with no intention to manufacture or market the product. A related, less pejorative expression is non-practicing entity (NPE) which describes a patent owner who does not manufacture or use the patented invention.
There is just about universal agreement that TiVo isn't a Patent Troll. It doesn't really matter at this point. Now that TiVo has license agreements or business arrangements covering a very high percentage of US DVRs, the attention on TiVo will now focus on their core business which is now profitable.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:13 AM   #33
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The CAFC also sent the case back to EDTX for another trial. A trial that never happened because of the settlement. Atrial that DISH may very well would have won.
And that, as you undoubtedly know but won't admit, had nothing to do with the FACT of infringement. It got sent back to the trial judge so he could make the substitution of penalty that I've already talked about; appeals courts don't generally do that themselves. The trial judge couldn't change the finding of infringement even if he wanted to - at that point only the Supreme Court could.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:33 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Whats ignored is my original point that this company would have gone under 6 years ago if it wasn't for patent trolling.

They've never made a dime they didn't sue someone out of.

Let's see what happens now that the lawsuits are over.
Perhaps they would have gone bankrupt in your personal alternate universe where the FACTS are very different from our world, but not in the real world.

At that time, TiVo had demonstrated that they could break even any time they wanted to (reduce hardware subsidy and research funding) and they had no long term debt. You can't be forced into bankruptcy unless you owe money!

I agree that the patent infringement money has helped TiVo a lot - they dramatically upped their research budget for instance, but lack of it would not have caused bankruptcy in that time period.

They were in danger of bankruptcy 4-5 years previously, when they had to sell off 1/6 of the company just to get 3-4 months of operating expenses. That was so they could bring out the Series 2 (including DirecTiVo) which was their first "self-produced" hardware. But they had recovered from that by 6 years ago.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:15 AM   #35
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And now we'll see how they survive without the patent windfalls. My guess is not well, and they'll eventually get bought out by someone big because of those patents. Which is pretty much what they need anyway, a management and development overhaul due to all the wasted potential.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:10 PM   #36
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I really wish we could have a conversation on this forum without Richard Cranium dragging it down.

The moderators on this forum are sleeping on the job if you ask my opinion.

A simple topic on the current state / future of Boxee turns into patent rant against TiVo, my thread on a the future Tivo models, turns into a rant against TiVo.

What is really frustrating is that the "rants" aren't even on topic...

I don't even want to read a thread around here anymore.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #37
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And now we'll see how they survive without the patent windfalls. My guess is not well, and they'll eventually get bought out by someone big because of those patents. Which is pretty much what they need anyway, a management and development overhaul due to all the wasted potential.
The trouble with that is, I doubt that there are any large companies out there that want consumers to be able to own their equipment. Those companies either want streaming to take the place of personal dvrs or want to sell directly to the pay-tv providers. If Tivo can't survive on their own, then we'll be left with pc cable card dvrs with an uncertain future due to Microsoft not putting any more effort into Media Center.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:27 PM   #38
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If Tivo can't survive on their own, then we'll be left with pc cable card dvrs with an uncertain future due to Microsoft not putting any more effort into Media Center.
The only thing that's uncertain is how long Microsoft will be providing guide data to Media Center PCs. You can use a Media Center PC for as long as you like. Microsoft is on the verge of dropping support for Windows XP after more than a decade so chances are any Media Center PC will last at least that long for Windows 8. In fact, even if Microsoft stops supporting Media Center with guide data, there are third party providers that can provide it for a modest fee. Media Center will survive for as long as guide data is available from any source.

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I really wish we could have a conversation on this forum without Richard Cranium dragging it down.
His forum name should have clued you into his demeaner (Richard Cranium = Dick Head).
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:42 PM   #39
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His forum name should have clued you into his demeaner (Richard Cranium = Dick Head).
Yeah - I noticed. Talk about living up to your screen name!
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:00 PM   #40
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Be sweet if a Boxee Box by Samsung came out, or something like that.

I have a NAS and don't want to run media through a PC that has to be left on. Just want directly from NAS to Media Box. And Boxee Box is awesome for that.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:04 PM   #41
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The only thing that's uncertain is how long Microsoft will be providing guide data to Media Center PCs. You can use a Media Center PC for as long as you like. Microsoft is on the verge of dropping support for Windows XP after more than a decade so chances are any Media Center PC will last at least that long for Windows 8. In fact, even if Microsoft stops supporting Media Center with guide data, there are third party providers that can provide it for a modest fee. Media Center will survive for as long as guide data is available from any source.

Doesn't Cable Labs have to approve software as well as hardware? Is there enough money to be made by third party guide makers to go out and get approved by Cable Labs? My Hauppauge tuner can schedule ota recordings via Titan TV, but what about CC tuners? And without a big name like MS being involved, would Cable Labs even bother?
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:57 PM   #42
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Cable Labs certification has nothing to do with guide data. I believe it's only required to certify software and hardware that works with any device using a cablecard. Otherwise, many third party DVR apps could be used with cablecard tuners other than Windows Media Center. The cost to get the software certified is way beyond the means of most third party developers, which is why WMC is currently the only game in town when it comes to cablecard tuners for a PC.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #43
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The cost to get the software certified is way beyond the means of most third party developers, which is why WMC is currently the only game in town when it comes to cablecard tuners for a PC.
Which is why I said that with MS no longer investing in Media Center, pc dvr's have an uncertain future. Unless you're strictly ota I guess.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:06 PM   #44
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There still for sale, but I would not buy one. Most likely the Boxee's will not receive any new support. I will bet that the cloud DVR will die before the end of the year.
It already has. They will discontinue service on the 10th of July.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:44 PM   #45
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I thought the Boxee Box complimented the ROku.
Boxee: You're nice, Roku.

Roku: Thanks, Boxee.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:25 PM   #46
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Big Grin

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There still for sale, but I would not buy one. Most likely the Boxee's will not receive any new support. I will bet that the cloud DVR will die before the end of the year.
From what I have read, their cloud DVR system/option will be shut down sometime this month (July, 2013). Therefore, I also suspect that ALL future upgrade support (new firmware, fixes, features, etc.) for this box is also pretty much dead.

I had briefly thought about getting a boxee box several times, but the price point they were at ($140+) did not fare well for me compared to some other media streaming boxes. I wound up getting a WDTV Live device for $69 and it has been great for my needs.

Streams just about any format, has pretty much all the streaming services I could ask for (except Amazon Prime), built in wireless (as well as hard wired) and has great networking features (that I stream files from numerous home PCs). A much worthy product in my opinion. I almost even got a Roku over a Boxee so they were really 3rd in line for my taste.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:55 AM   #47
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Which is why I said that with MS no longer investing in Media Center, pc dvr's have an uncertain future. Unless you're strictly ota I guess.
Media Center DVRs will survive long after MS drops support for Windows 7 or 8. As long as you can run compatible hardware and have a source for guide data, they can be used indefinitely. There are several third party media center front ends that will work with cablecard tuners. They just can't record DRMed content and probably won't due to the Cable Labs certification requirement. However, if you're fortunate enough to have a provider that flags all content as copy freely (all but premium channels, that is), such as FIOS, you can use one of the alternate front ends instead of Windows Media Center. Media Portal just announced support for cablecard tuners and MythTV and one or two others already support them.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:14 AM   #48
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Boxee: You're nice, Roku.

Roku: Thanks, Boxee.
Nicely played, sir, nicely played!
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:54 AM   #49
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However, if you're fortunate enough to have a provider that flags all content as copy freely (all but premium channels, that is), such as FIOS, you can use one of the alternate front ends instead of Windows Media Center. Media Portal just announced support for cablecard tuners and MythTV and one or two others already support them.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:07 AM   #50
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The DVr recordings are gone now. When I go to the webpage that had my recordings I see the
Quote:
We're pleased to announce
Boxee will be joining Samsung
page now.

The Boxee TV still has access to the apps. Netflix was working, Pandora, Vudu and of course LiveTV. if you want to get that retro feel of watching TV like it's the 70's or earlier.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:37 PM   #51
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Boxee: You're nice, Roku.

Roku: Thanks, Boxee.
I literally LOLd at this one.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:17 PM   #52
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Liked Boxee Box at first. Then it started freezing after being left running awhile. Then they stopped doing updates. Then I stopped using it. Recently sold it after 6 months of not using it during which time I built an HTPC.
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