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Old 06-27-2013, 08:56 PM   #211
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NBC shows routinely have the end gag cut off.
Discovery has end gag/summary (e.g. Mythbusters) on many shows.
While I haven't recorded anything on it in a while, E! starts/ends shows a partial minute late.

MTV needs ~2 minutes pre/post pad since their schedule is totally wacky.
I don't pad Mythbusters and I don't recall ever missing the ending.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:05 PM   #212
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I don't pad Mythbusters and I don't recall ever missing the ending.
For me the recording frequently ends right before they give the final result: busted, plausible or confirmed.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #213
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We have a model number -- Series 5/TCD848000

On the MoCA Alliance webpage, they list devices that are MoCA certified and this was just recently added.

The head scratcher is that it's MoCA 1.1 certified when the most likely Broadcom chip is 2.0 certified... Going with a separate Entropic or similar solution instead?
None of the Broadcom devices on that page are 2.0 certified. They are 1.1 and 1.0 certified.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:32 PM   #214
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For me the recording frequently ends right before they give the final result: busted, plausible or confirmed.
Same. Kind of annoying to have to Google it right after. So I pad now.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:37 PM   #215
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So funny how these little nuggets make us go nuts with guesses.
It is actually funny to watch everyone go on and on with speculation everyday
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:52 AM   #216
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I need a new DVR now.

Hope this is worth waiting for ...
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:45 AM   #217
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It is actually funny to watch everyone go on and on with speculation everyday
Yep, I'm getting to point where I don't even care. They just release a half completed product anyway and never complete it before the next version and then say they're not going to complete the old product so that they can focus on the new one.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:33 AM   #218
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It is actually funny to watch everyone go on and on with speculation everyday
If we didn't speculate, there would be nothing to really talk about.

Still no finished HDUI, Still no Android Stream support, No new features in the last update, etc.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:02 PM   #219
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If we didn't speculate, there would be nothing to really talk about.

Still no finished HDUI, Still no Android Stream support, No new features in the last update, etc.
Honest question - what does finished HDUI really mean? Is the product not finished if the "settings" screens are not HDUI?

What screen do you commonly use that is still a jarring switch between HUDI and SDUI?

I am far less concerned about "finishing the UI" then I am about a faster processor, 6 tuners, dynamic tuner allocation and the such...

I get the annoyance of no Android Stream support - I don't have any android devices - but at least it makes some sense to me as a concern.

Personally, I am patiently waiting for a new TiVo desktop implementation that streams to my Surface tablet.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:16 PM   #220
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Honest question - what does finished HDUI really mean? Is the product not finished if the "settings" screens are not HDUI?

What screen do you commonly use that is still a jarring switch between HUDI and SDUI?

I am far less concerned about "finishing the UI" then I am about a faster processor, 6 tuners, dynamic tuner allocation and the such...
I think it is more an issue of launching a new generation of products over three years after launch without the entire UI converted to HDUI. The first thing in every review will be TiVo launched their new boxes and we have a hands on. Even though it is over 3 years since the launch of the Premiere TiVo and TiVo is launching a new generation they still have not finished the HDUI.

It isn't about what screens I use though I do go in settings pretty regularly, but more about launching a new product when your last product wasn't completely upgraded to a "New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery". SD screens does not a HDUI make.

You never want to launch a new product when the general consensus is your last product isn't finished. It doesn't leave a good taste. While we can assume any future development we see on the new series 5 will come back to the Premiere unless the chip isn't fast enough, it still isn't a good thing when you want people to buy your new hardware.

I will buy one because I don't have a choice since family is waiting on my Elite, but if I had a choice I would wait until TiVo shows me they can finish what they started before shifting focus.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:31 PM   #221
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Honest question - what does finished HDUI really mean? Is the product not finished if the "settings" screens are not HDUI?

What screen do you commonly use that is still a jarring switch between HUDI and SDUI?
Wishlists, all the time. Not to mention that it's just sloppy and lazy to have not done everything by now anyway, leading to the consensus among some that it's a half-baked product (not just for the HDUI of course).
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:35 PM   #222
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Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll finish all the HD screens for the next release. Then the new one will launch complete and the old one will be finally finished.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:40 PM   #223
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Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll finish all the HD screens for the next release. Then the new one will launch complete and the old one will be finally finished.
That was my thinking. I would hope though it comes out before the official announcement of the boxes. Roll out the update and then announce the new models.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:54 PM   #224
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Although if they finish the Wish List and Find By Time/Channel screens then the only thing left would be the settings, which aren't all that important. If it was a choice between the settings being HD and something like user profiles I would rather have the user profiles.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:03 PM   #225
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I am interested to see when this comes out!

Since I nicknamed the Mini "UNICORN", I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate the nickname I made for the Series 5 several months ago: "BIGFOOT".

Let's hope the Mini was an exception, and the dates are more in line with what Dan mentioned above!
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #226
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While we can assume any future development we see on the new series 5 will come back to the Premiere unless the chip isn't fast enough, it still isn't a good thing when you want people to buy your new hardware.
I wouldn't assume that at all. TiVo has a history of abandoning development on older platforms when new ones come out. The Series 3 boxes got a few bug fix releases after the Series 4 boxes came out and then nothing. I expect it will be the same with the Series 4 when the Series 5 comes out. The Series 4 might get a few more apps or what not, I doubt it will get any new features. I don't believe the HDUI interface will ever be complete on the Series 4 boxes.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #227
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I wouldn't assume that at all. TiVo has a history of abandoning development on older platforms when new ones come out. The Series 3 boxes got a few bug fix releases after the Series 4 boxes came out and then nothing. I expect it will be the same with the Series 4 when the Series 5 comes out. The Series 4 might get a few more apps or what not, I doubt it will get any new features. I don't believe the HDUI interface will ever be complete on the Series 4 boxes.
I don't think you can compare the TiVo HD to the Series 4 due to the shift to Flash.

The Series 5 unless they drop Flash should be running the same software the Series 4 runs so any updates should roll backwards unless it is features that requires too much processing power. We have also seen the MSOs pick up the Series 4 which means if TiVo abandons it they are also forcing the cable companies to upgrade and they tend to stick to a 5-6 year cycle.

I wouldn't expect the Series 4 to get updates all the way through the life of the Series 5, but I would expect it to happen at least for another year if not two.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:47 PM   #228
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Wishlists, all the time. Not to mention that it's just sloppy and lazy to have not done everything by now anyway, leading to the consensus among some that it's a half-baked product (not just for the HDUI of course).
That's the one I wish they'd finish.

I don't mind how it looks now, but checking my (non-autorecording) wishlists takes long enough I'd like to be able to keep watching a show in the HDUI's preview window while it thinks.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #229
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I agree. With previous generations the series shift was such a massive change that they basically had to maintain two sets of code for each unit. This new unit will essentially be the same as the Mini, which currently runs the exact same software as the Premiere, so they should be able to maintain a common codebase that works on both units. Now they may create a few exclusive features for the S5 to help drive upgrades, but I don't think the HDUI screens will be part of that. I think if they update something to HD on one it will be updated on all.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:02 PM   #230
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I will refuse to purchase "any" new Tivo products until Netflix is stable. I'm less interested in the GUI being all HD than having NetFlix lock up on the completion of a show and having to return to home and then go back in.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:05 PM   #231
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I'm already given up on the one box concept. I'd resigned myself to a TiVo for Live/Recorded TV and a WD TV Live for local content/online services. Simple and reliable.

Left XBMC because of the high HTPC requirements and it not working like an appliance.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:16 PM   #232
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I will refuse to purchase "any" new Tivo products until Netflix is stable. I'm less interested in the GUI being all HD than having NetFlix lock up on the completion of a show and having to return to home and then go back in.
Netflix and other OTP implementations is one of my biggest disappointments as well. I think one of the main reasons TiVo has not had a better record of attracting OTP providers is the performance issue.

Netflix doesn't have any issues running on Adobe Air, but the wimpy processor in the Premier line simply cannot handle it properly.

I am hoping the upgraded processor in the next gen boxes fair better then what we have today.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #233
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I'm hoping that in addition to existing apps running better that the new processor will entice more services to offer apps as well. I'd like to see HBOGo, VUDU and Amazon Streaming. My hope is that those services will allow their apps on TiVo once the box has sufficient hardware to run them properly.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #234
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I will refuse to purchase "any" new Tivo products until Netflix is stable. I'm less interested in the GUI being all HD than having NetFlix lock up on the completion of a show and having to return to home and then go back in.
While streaming on any TiVo "Series 5" hardware should be fine if you are buying a TiVo to have access to Netflix I have a bridge that would make a good investment for you. Pretty much anything that has had it's hardware updated in the last year or 2 (TVs, blu-ray players, gaming consoles, stand alone streaming devices) works fine for streaming, the only reason to buy a TiVo is because you want a DVR and the only reason to upgrade an existing Premiere is because you want t better DVR. If all you want is Netflix or some other streaming service buy a Roku, Apple TV, or better yet a new Panasonic or Samsung TV.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #235
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While having everything in one box would be much more convenient and desirable, I've also given up on waiting for Tivo to come around on apps. They'll probably never be as good as Roku, and I didn't see the point in stubbornly tolerating it any longer in the hope that they do come around some day. So I swallowed and grabbed a Roku. And I'm glad I did. Really, it's quite nice.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:01 PM   #236
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Being able to incorporate these services into the TiVo Search is the main draw for me. Having to use each services search separately is a real PITA. Being able to search for something in one place and knowing for certain whether it is or isn't available on any of the services I have available to me would be a huge plus. Barring that I'll just continue to use my Samsung TV.
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Old 06-28-2013, 05:46 PM   #237
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I was reading about the X1 on broadbandreports.com forums and a couple of the guys were discussing the embedded processors used in DVRs. They said at least on some benchmarks, the Broadcom processors used on Tivos and other DVRs lag badly behind the ARM SOCs used on phones. Not even the latest phones but something like the A4 in the iPhone 4 is way faster.

That might explain why streaming apps. like Netflix perform better on those boxes. Certainly you'd expect better performance than the streaming features in Blu-Ray players or integrated into TVs.


And then the other part of it is that the cable companies do not like hardware playing HBO Go proliferating. Heard that one reason it took so long for HBO Go to come to Apple TV is that the cable companies fought it, so HBO had to really coax them into agreeing.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:25 PM   #238
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Yeah, the CPU in the Premiere is roughly equivalent to the iPhone 3S. It can do apps in theory, but the big asterisk is that DVRs multitask while phones generally don't. There is guide indexing, 24/7 buffering on up to 4 tuners, occasional internet downloads, and all the other background stuff it does. So the end result is what we got... a software platform that was too enterprising for its hardware. As others have mentioned in the past, it technically doesn't even meet Adobe's Flash/AIR hardware requirements. So it was gimped out of the gate.

The presumed new chip has 3x the performance. That should in theory be good enough to give us a Mini-like experience and decent app performance even with all the background tasks running. So I'm looking forward to seeing how it does.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:49 PM   #239
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I was reading about the X1 on broadbandreports.com forums and a couple of the guys were discussing the embedded processors used in DVRs. They said at least on some benchmarks, the Broadcom processors used on Tivos and other DVRs lag badly behind the ARM SOCs used on phones. Not even the latest phones but something like the A4 in the iPhone 4 is way faster.

That might explain why streaming apps. like Netflix perform better on those boxes. Certainly you'd expect better performance than the streaming features in Blu-Ray players or integrated into TVs.

And then the other part of it is that the cable companies do not like hardware playing HBO Go proliferating. Heard that one reason it took so long for HBO Go to come to Apple TV is that the cable companies fought it, so HBO had to really coax them into agreeing.
All very good points, and reasoning. Besides HBO Go, there are so many other things that we are denied, or delayed, from being able to use, due to the broadcasters and cable providers...

I used to really enjoy the Epix feature on my RoKu 2 XS. It was basically Epix "on-demand". Then, Cox blocked me (and the whole Cox market, AFAIK) from using it. On top of that, Epix is one of the few CCI flagged channels. Since my home is a mishmash of TiVo HD units and Premiere 2-tuner models, it doesn't always work out well, trying to use the MRV-Streaming to get around the CCI flag, since it only works between Premiere platforms...

While TiVo does a pretty good job at crippling their own products, in the name of production cost savings, the other conglomerates in the game aren't making it any easier, or better, for the end-users...

I'm far too financially invested in lifetime service units, that are already a generation, or more obsolete, to jump on what TiVo drops onto the market now, or in the future.

I still vividly recall the HORRIFIC experience of taking TiVo up on their special offer for early adopters of the Premiere. They were so bad, I sent them back. I waited over a year, and found them tolerable. Now, as they are on the verge of being considered end-of-life, as TiVo releases new generations, they finally work as I feel they should have, the day they were released. I'm NOT going to make the same mistake, again, and buy whatever they roll-out as their next generation. It took until the last minute before the end-of-life of the TiVo HD for that product to get MOST of it's issues resolved, and reach its potential as well. I consider this a pattern that shouldn't be ignored.

If only my TiVo Premieres were DLNA-compliant... Then, I'd really be loving me some TiVo. Even if that's standard in what they bring to the market, I still wouldn't jump on post-release growing pains by buying the new products. I'll let the rest of you do the beta-testing that we all endure, right to the end-of-life point of their products.

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Old 06-28-2013, 07:24 PM   #240
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I was reading about the X1 on broadbandreports.com forums and a couple of the guys were discussing the embedded processors used in DVRs. They said at least on some benchmarks, the Broadcom processors used on Tivos and other DVRs lag badly behind the ARM SOCs used on phones. Not even the latest phones but something like the A4 in the iPhone 4 is way faster.

That might explain why streaming apps. like Netflix perform better on those boxes. Certainly you'd expect better performance than the streaming features in Blu-Ray players or integrated into TVs.


And then the other part of it is that the cable companies do not like hardware playing HBO Go proliferating. Heard that one reason it took so long for HBO Go to come to Apple TV is that the cable companies fought it, so HBO had to really coax them into agreeing.
No surprise as the processor in the Premiere is from 2009. While it might be ok to go years without a hardware update on the DVR side it isn't for all the other stuff that people want these DVRs to do. Here is old chart comparing the Premiere to other devices:

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