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Old 06-17-2013, 09:19 AM   #1
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Mad Men 6/16 The Quality of Mercy

First, wow, when I put the title in, this one came up -
Babylon 5, "The Quality of Mercy", S01E21, OAD 8/17/94 *spoilers*

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=399553

That aside, what an interesting episode.

Sally and Glen. I thought from the start the girls at the school were going to be doing some initiation thing on her.

Peggy. Poor Peggy. She gets shafted by Don again and her great work taken away. Did he really do that to save the day or because he didn't want her to get credit.

I think she needs to find a new company to work for with no Ted or Don around. I couldn't believe they were sneaking off to the movies together. But then the way that office works everyone with any position is off in the middle of the day for hours on end. It's crazy.

Bobby Benson had me confused. I need to rewatch that whole bit with him and Peter again.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:13 AM   #2
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Yeah, I'm perplexed with the whole Bobby/Pete thing too. I always keep the episode in my 'deleted' folder for a while and usually end up watching again a few days later.

I felt like Don did that to save the account, but who knows. I don't know why he should have it out for Peggy.

The part at the boarding school was kind of scary. I was afraid they were going to have something bad happen to Sally. I feel like Betty sees so much of herself in Sally that she cannot stand her. Poor kid - both parents don't seem to give a damn.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #3
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Don doesn't like Ted. And he doesn't like the idea of Peggy being with Ted. You saw it with the aspirin ad and with the whole Sunkist thing. Sure, he told Harry he should not proceed, but when it would up working out, he was happy. A lot of money, plus Sunkist didn't seem to care about any potential conflict with Ocean Spray. Of course, Ted was still pissed and saw it as Don going back on his word.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:25 AM   #4
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My take on the Bobby/Pete thing:

Pete has run into this situation before, with Don. Someone who is not who they claim to be, and the way Pete handled it with Don blew up in his face. This time around, Pete is going to handle it differently.

What I don't get is why. Bobby doesn't seem to be half the powerful man that Don is.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:25 AM   #5
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$8 million in this time frame!! That account would have been huge to have. How much was Ocean Spray offering to pay? How much is Chevy even paying?
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:58 AM   #6
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I thought this episode was a let down for being the second to last episode of the season.

Don was not happy seeing Peggy and Ted together and so called Harry and told him to go after Ocean Spray even after he gave Ted his word that he would not.

Peggy is so in love with Ted that she can't see that he's not the perfect man she imagines him to be and he continues to marginalize her over and over.

I did not follow the conversation with Pete and Bob Benson at all. At first it sounded like he wanted Bob to leave immediately then suddenly they were working side by side. I'll have to go back and watch again.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:03 PM   #7
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Wow!
I'm very surprised to see folks in the thread saying they didn't get the Pete/Bob dynamic, I caught it right away when he said to duck "I've seen it before" and right away I knew it was going to be a rehash of when he found out Don's secret, only this time Pete has learned and will make it work for him.

I also got that Don wanted to make Ted and Peggy squirm before giving them a safe solution, and as per Don, it's good for the company, but not Ted or Peggy.

And yes I yelled out "OMG they killed Kenny! the bastards!"

Sepinwall and T&L are both already up.
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...y-killed-kenny
http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/06...-of-mercy.html
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:10 PM   #8
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I still don't know what the heck Bob Benson does. So he hired himself? He interviewed with a couple of people and just started showing up for work?

What happened with Ted and Peggy? Just recently she was distraught over him spurning her and now they're acting like lovestruck teenagers and not even being sneaky about it.

Don interfering got the company an extra $10,000.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:20 PM   #9
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Wow!
I'm very surprised to see folks in the thread saying they didn't get the Pete/Bob dynamic, I caught it right away when he said to duck "I've seen it before" and right away I knew it was going to be a rehash of when he found out Don's secret, only this time Pete has learned and will make it work for him.

I also got that Don wanted to make Ted and Peggy squirm before giving them a safe solution, and as per Don, it's good for the company, but not Ted or Peggy.

And yes I yelled out "OMG they killed Kenny! the bastards!"

Sepinwall and T&L are both already up.
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...y-killed-kenny
http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/06...-of-mercy.html
Great articles.

They did mention one thing - Don Draper as a crying baby and even better, Joan as a Jewish Mother.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:05 PM   #10
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And yes I yelled out "OMG they killed Kenny! the bastards!" [/url]
Same here! I had to pause the show I was laughing so much.
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Old 06-17-2013, 02:42 PM   #11
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I see why Lincoln has been sponsoring "Mad Men" this season -- the Chevrolet folks have been consistently portrayed as boobs.

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A lot of money, plus Sunkist didn't seem to care about any potential conflict with Ocean Spray.
Sunkist would care, but they apparently either didn't know about the conflict, or Harry had assured them that it would be worked out (by SC&P dropping Ocean Spray as a client).

I noticed, in Bob's office, that SC&P has already had coffee mugs made with their new logo. (And it is a very "late '60s"-looking logo, with big rounded letters. A couple years later, and they probably would have used Helvetica instead.)
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:02 PM   #12
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Great articles.

They did mention one thing - Don Draper as a crying baby and even better, Joan as a Jewish Mother.
OMG! I know-Jon Hamm is HILARIOUS! I hope he does more comedy after Mad Men is over-and of course, Christina Hendricks has delivered some deathly funny zingers over the years. LOVE HER!!!

Loved Sally's smile as Glenn fought for her...sad but telling....

"My father never gave me anything..." (Did it just get cold in here??)

"I know how to make a Tom Collins"

Man...Sally is all kinds of messed up...
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:30 PM   #13
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OK what's your South Park reference to they killed Kenny -
Gone over my head...

Bob and Pete -
Yeah I didn't get it either.
Pete appears to try to get rid of Bob by asking the other guy about hiring him.
Then he finds out he lied on his resume (or something) -
Instead of getting rid of him using that as ammo...
He decides to keep him around and tell him he can't make any more passes at him?
I don't get it.

Last edited by Cainebj : 06-17-2013 at 05:31 PM. Reason: more
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:32 PM   #14
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OK what's your South Park reference to they killed Kenny -
Gone over my head...
Ken(ny) Cosgrove gets shot by 2 jokers from Chevy out in the woods-all the South Park fans immediately think, "Oh, my God, they killed Kenny!!! You bastards!!!"

Kind of funny...yes???
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:07 PM   #15
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Ken(ny) Cosgrove gets shot by 2 jokers from Chevy out in the woods-all the South Park fans immediately think, "Oh, my God, they killed Kenny!!! You bastards!!!"

Speaking of killing Kenny, the Bob Benson character reminds me of Kenneth from 30 Rock.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:21 PM   #16
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Speaking of killing Kenny, the Bob Benson character reminds me of Kenneth from 30 Rock.
HA! When Pete said, "I want you to stop smiling..." and he did...I was stunned. He never stops smiling!

And the coffee cup really stood out on his desk, because he didn't have his usual cup of coffee, or 2 cups of coffee, and when Pete called him out on that, and then Bob was all, "Would you like me to get you one?" Man, he really is like Kenneth! Rumors of inbreeding and everything!
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:16 PM   #17
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:59 PM   #18
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OK what's your South Park reference to they killed Kenny -
Gone over my head...

Bob and Pete -
Yeah I didn't get it either.
Pete appears to try to get rid of Bob by asking the other guy about hiring him.
Then he finds out he lied on his resume (or something) -
Instead of getting rid of him using that as ammo...
He decides to keep him around and tell him he can't make any more passes at him?
I don't get it.
Pete has already tangled with a shape-shifter like Bob before: Don. When he tried to use his knowledge in a power play against Don, he lost. He lost because Don was great at his job, and because Pete is terrible at office politics. He already knows that Bob is good at both work and politics -- he's on Chevy, who likes him; and the partners have his back and told Pete so to his face -- and thus Pete would not likely succeed in running him out the door.

So Pete "surrenders", knowing it was his best move. Bob can be useful to him professionally and Pete can keep somewhat of an upper hand by keeping Bob's secret for him. The main price Bob has to pay is to stop being so obsequious around Pete.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:42 AM   #19
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Pete "surrenders", knowing it was his best move.
I re-watched it last night and it was a lot clearer. thanks.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:39 AM   #20
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Pete has already tangled with a shape-shifter like Bob before: Don. When he tried to use his knowledge in a power play against Don, he lost. He lost because Don was great at his job, and because Pete is terrible at office politics. He already knows that Bob is good at both work and politics -- he's on Chevy, who likes him; and the partners have his back and told Pete so to his face -- and thus Pete would not likely succeed in running him out the door.

So Pete "surrenders", knowing it was his best move. Bob can be useful to him professionally and Pete can keep somewhat of an upper hand by keeping Bob's secret for him. The main price Bob has to pay is to stop being so obsequious around Pete.
I guess the part that bugs me about the Pete/Bob dynamic is that it was pretty clear that Pete and Bob were enemies, and that Pete could have just gone to the partners with that news and boom, Bob would have to be fired, wouldn't he? So why not do that? Did he fear some sort of retrebution from Bob? Or that the partners wouldn't care (especially Don, who has a similar secret)?
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:42 AM   #21
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OK what's your South Park reference to they killed Kenny -
Gone over my head...

Bob and Pete -
Yeah I didn't get it either.
Pete appears to try to get rid of Bob by asking the other guy about hiring him.
Then he finds out he lied on his resume (or something) -
Instead of getting rid of him using that as ammo...
He decides to keep him around and tell him he can't make any more passes at him?
I don't get it.
Te be clear on the South Park reference. In the early seasons of South Park, every episode a character named Kenny was killed in some odd way. And one of the other kids would say....Oh my God, they killed Kenny. And another would say You Bastard. It was a running gag. Kenny would be back the next episode, and boom, he'd be killed again! (eventually, they killed Kenny for a season or two, "permanently", and then brought him back. Every so often they revert to that gag).
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:14 AM   #22
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I guess the part that bugs me about the Pete/Bob dynamic is that it was pretty clear that Pete and Bob were enemies, and that Pete could have just gone to the partners with that news and boom, Bob would have to be fired, wouldn't he? So why not do that?
That's exactly what he thought would happen when he exposed Don's secret, but it didn't work. He learned from that and is taking a different approach this time.

You could basically replace "Bob" with "Don" in the above quote and you'd have the Pete/Don dynamic from season 1.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:24 AM   #23
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That's exactly what he thought would happen when he exposed Don's secret, but it didn't work. He learned from that and is taking a different approach this time.

You could basically replace "Bob" with "Don" in the above quote and you'd have the Pete/Don dynamic from season 1.
Except Bob isn't Don. Bob doesn't have the cred with the firm yet. He's not a partner, or the head of a department. I guess the only thing he thought was that Bob has some cred with Chevy, and with Kenny being pulled, it would look bad for the firm to pull Kenny and Bob get canned. On the other side, it would look great for Pete to come in and save the day. Tricky mine field to go through I guess.

The thing is, if Pete waits and springs this about Bob in 6 months say, wouldn't the other partners wonder why he waited?
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:29 AM   #24
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Sure, it might have been different, but he's gotten more power now and I don't think he wants to risk it. I think he's going to use it to control Bob, not necessarily blow him up at a later date.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:46 AM   #25
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I guess the part that bugs me about the Pete/Bob dynamic is that it was pretty clear that Pete and Bob were enemies, and that Pete could have just gone to the partners with that news and boom, Bob would have to be fired, wouldn't he? So why not do that? Did he fear some sort of retrebution from Bob? Or that the partners wouldn't care (especially Don, who has a similar secret)?
The partners made it crystal clear to Pete that Bob was critical to the Chevy account. They even said they would replace Pete on the account if he couldn't work with Bob.

Pete went to the partners with Don's secret and it was a disaster for him. He learned his lesson and won't repeat that mistake.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:56 AM   #26
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The partners made it crystal clear to Pete that Bob was critical to the Chevy account. They even said they would replace Pete on the account if he couldn't work with Bob.

Pete went to the partners with Don's secret and it was a disaster for him. He learned his lesson and won't repeat that mistake.
I get that, but does Bob = Don at the firm?
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:00 AM   #27
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I get that, but does Bob = Don at the firm?
In effect, yes. Not because Bob is as important to the firm as Don is overall, but because the partners told Pete firmly they would side with Bob over him re: Chevy. Same message Pete got about Don back when. Like Don then, Bob is doing good work and the client likes him, and that's all the partners care about.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:25 AM   #28
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In effect, yes. Not because Bob is as important to the firm as Don is overall, but because the partners told Pete firmly they would side with Bob over him re: Chevy. Same message Pete got about Don back when. Like Don then, Bob is doing good work and the client likes him, and that's all the partners care about.
That's kind of what I'm thinking. That said, if Bob's secret got out, what would be the fallout with GM? I guess that's the big question. The difference to me, is at the time Pete found out about Don, Don was already friends with everyone in the firm, and certainly more respected in the firm than Pete. I'm not even sure that it would matter to Roger or Burt for example if Don was revealed for who he was. Bob, on the other hand, is new to the firm, nobody really know who he is or even where he came from. If GM found out the lie, from some other means than the firm, the firm is toast. That's a big risk to take. And Pete withholding that info would mean the end of him. I'm not sure if this is the right play. But I understand why Pete thinks so. He's not on sure footing with the firm, especially from the non Sterling Cooper part and he's insecure in the first place. Better not to rock the boat. Bob does not equal Don, but in Pete's eye, he might as well.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:38 AM   #29
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Maybe Bob = Don 20 years ago?

Let me ponder this by eating some chicken soup...
What would have been great was, in the commercial break after that scene, had a Swanson's commercial with Christiana Hendrick.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:42 PM   #30
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That's kind of what I'm thinking. That said, if Bob's secret got out, what would be the fallout with GM? I guess that's the big question. The difference to me, is at the time Pete found out about Don, Don was already friends with everyone in the firm, and certainly more respected in the firm than Pete. I'm not even sure that it would matter to Roger or Burt for example if Don was revealed for who he was. Bob, on the other hand, is new to the firm, nobody really know who he is or even where he came from. If GM found out the lie, from some other means than the firm, the firm is toast. That's a big risk to take. And Pete withholding that info would mean the end of him. I'm not sure if this is the right play. But I understand why Pete thinks so. He's not on sure footing with the firm, especially from the non Sterling Cooper part and he's insecure in the first place. Better not to rock the boat. Bob does not equal Don, but in Pete's eye, he might as well.
Also didn't Bob say that Pete was the one who hired him? It was when Bob was telling Pete about how he'd swept into Bob's hiring interview. <Insert slightly star struck look here>

If that's what the other partners believe, wouldn't it reflect badly on Pete that he only discovered Bob's amazingly flimsy bogus background now?
That might be another incentive to use the info as blackmail, rather than exposing Bob in an attempt to get him fired.
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