TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Closed Thread
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-10-2013, 06:14 PM   #31
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
We'll have to disagree that millions of children born outside of marriage is "OK". Studies have shown that children of married couples have generally better outcomes in many different areas, including poverty and substance abuse.
I'm not saying it always turns out OK for the child, but in the eyes of the law it's OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
So gay people who oppose gay marriage are bigots too? Bigoted against themselves presumably?
Yep, if such a person exists then he/she is also be a bigot. There is no logical reason to oppose gay marriage. Only religious/hate related reasons.

Marriage is a legal contract, nothing more. Any two consenting adults should be able to enter into that contract and be afforded all the benefits that come along with it. Limiting it to two people of the opposite sex is simply unfair.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:31 PM   #32
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I'm not saying it always turns out OK for the child, but in the eyes of the law it's OK.



Yep, if such a person exists then he/she is also be a bigot. There is no logical reason to oppose gay marriage. Only religious/hate related reasons.

Marriage is a legal contract, nothing more. Any two consenting adults should be able to enter into that contract and be afforded all the benefits that come along with it. Limiting it to two people of the opposite sex is simply unfair.
The logical reason for opposition is that the rights of children should trump the right to children. And children do best with a mother and father.

Anyway, my involvement in this thread was not really intended to ignite a debate about gay marriage, but rather to flush out the true rationale of the Tebow-haters. I think I've accomplished that. People hate Tebow because he holds Christian religious views. Hatred of Christianity is at the root of Tebow-hatred.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)
Loach is offline  
Old 06-10-2013, 08:23 PM   #33
StevesWeb
Grumpy Old Geek
 
StevesWeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Geek Hill, Corona, CA USA
Posts: 398
Gotta love that martyr card.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
StevesWeb is offline  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:01 AM   #34
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
And children do best with a mother and father.
That refrain loses more and more credibility over time. The people in the media it's loaned from either don't cite sources, or they've twisted studies to make a false comparison. While actual studies like ACHESS show no substantive difference among children raised by loving parents who are genuinely happy to have them, regardless of who the parents are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Studies have shown that children of married couples have generally better outcomes in many different areas, including poverty and substance abuse.
Sounds like a good case to support more couples getting married.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 06-11-2013 at 03:37 AM.
BigJimOutlaw is offline  
Old 06-11-2013, 02:52 AM   #35
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
The logical reason for opposition is that the rights of children should trump the right to children. And children do best with a mother and father.
Again what do children have to do with marriage? Plenty of hetrosexual couples get married, and reap all the benefits that entails, with no intention of having children. And plenty of homosexual couples that are not married either have or adopt children. The ONLY thing marriage does is provide certain tax/legal rights, none of which have anything to do with children.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline  
Old 06-11-2013, 03:58 PM   #36
Davisadm
TiVo is Back!!!!!!!!
 
Davisadm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 202
Back to the subject of Tim Tebo...

Tim Teb has been sighed with the New England Patriots.
Davisadm is offline  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #37
slowbiscuit
FUBAR
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 2,466
It's Tebow fer cryin' out loud, even if you don't like him give him the courtesy of a correct name spelling.
slowbiscuit is offline  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:51 PM   #38
hairyblue
A good Man
 
hairyblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 687
How about Christians can marry who they want and love and if you are not Christian you can not write laws to stop them. It doesn't have anything to do with you. If marrying the opposite sex is against your religion, then YOU don't do it. Don't right laws to stop people in love from getting married.

Or something like that.

This is America, Tebow should be able to marry who he loves.
__________________
America--diversity and tolerance is our biggest strength

Own 2 Tivo Premieres. OTA
Fired DTV for expensive rates on Sept. 2012
hairyblue is online now  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:43 PM   #39
jsmeeker
Vegas Boy
 
jsmeeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 87,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyblue View Post
How about Christians can marry who they want and love and if you are not Christian you can not write laws to stop them. It doesn't have anything to do with you. If marrying the opposite sex is against your religion, then YOU don't do it. Don't right laws to stop people in love from getting married.

Or something like that.

This is America, Tebow should be able to marry who he loves.
Tim Tebow is gay? Wow.

Awesome!
__________________
Jeff
Proud to use my TiVo improperly
President of the TiVoShanan Fan Club


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jsmeeker is offline  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:24 PM   #40
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Again what do children have to do with marriage? Plenty of hetrosexual couples get married, and reap all the benefits that entails, with no intention of having children. And plenty of homosexual couples that are not married either have or adopt children. The ONLY thing marriage does is provide certain tax/legal rights, none of which have anything to do with children.
What do children have to do with marriage? I guess nothing if you live your life like an alley cat. The legal and tax rights of marriage that are built into the federal code were written specifically for the purpose of protecting children and easing the financial burden on their parents. To say marriage has nothing to do with children is laughable.

Let me know when a same-sex couple gives birth to their first biological child.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)
Loach is offline  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:29 PM   #41
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyblue View Post
How about Christians can marry who they want and love and if you are not Christian you can not write laws to stop them. It doesn't have anything to do with you. If marrying the opposite sex is against your religion, then YOU don't do it. Don't right laws to stop people in love from getting married.

Or something like that.

This is America, Tebow should be able to marry who he loves.
Actually, gay marriage is legal in all 50 states. There is not a law on the books anywhere that will prevent you from having whatever marriage ceremony you want. The media talks about gay marriage "bans" because they like to make it sound like people are getting thrown in jail or something. But there are simply no gay marriage bans. There are just states that recognize gay marriage, and states that don't.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)
Loach is offline  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:40 PM   #42
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
That refrain loses more and more credibility over time. The people in the media it's loaned from either don't cite sources, or they've twisted studies to make a false comparison. While actual studies like ACHESS show no substantive difference among children raised by loving parents who are genuinely happy to have them, regardless of who the parents are.
Here's an article with plenty of sources for you. I'm sure the gay marriage crowd will discount it all though, because all they care about is their mushy emotional arguments about "love" and "fairness".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
That refrain loses more and more Sounds like a good case to support more couples getting married.
Yep, it's a great case for more heterosexual couples to get married.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)

Last edited by Loach : 06-13-2013 at 10:44 PM. Reason: consolidate posts
Loach is offline  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:27 PM   #43
Davisadm
TiVo is Back!!!!!!!!
 
Davisadm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 202
Back to the subject of Tim Tebow

Tim Tebow has been signed with the New England Patriots.

Tim Tebow arrives

New team
Davisadm is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 03:20 AM   #44
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Let me know when a same-sex couple gives birth to their first biological child.
That's such a BS argument! There are millions of hetrosexual couples that can't have biological children either, and yet they are allowed to get married. Why is that OK? Because their parts fit together? Because your book says it's OK?

Oh and FYI....
http://news.yahoo.com/oregon-scienti...170407156.html
Soon it will be possible for a lesbian couple to have a biological child. When that happens will you change your stance on them getting married? I'm guessing not.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 04:57 AM   #45
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Here's an article with plenty of sources for you. I'm sure the gay marriage crowd will discount it all though, because all they care about is their mushy emotional arguments about "love" and "fairness".
When I said the media bigots twist studies to make false comparisons, I was referring quite specifically to groups like Focus on the Family. And so now you have given me a link to a FOTF affiliate. And that link proves my exact point. So thank you.

The studies don't need gay marriage supporters to discount them. They discount themselves. Well actually, only one of the studies linked to in that article is even working. And even though the FOTF article cherry-picks sentences from the study, they/you ignore the fact that the study admits outright that it did little to no examination of actual SS couples, and no married SS couples at all because the study is so old it pre-dates SSM. LOL.

So thank you again for proving my point that they, and you as their proxy, twist inapplicable studies to fit an agenda.

For those unaware, FOTF founder James Dobson claims gays will destroy the earth, gay marriage will lead to donkey-man marriage, and that women wait for their husbands to assume leadership. So clearly he's a down-the-middle sociological scholar with no agenda, whose groups can and should be cited in all credible discussions.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 06-14-2013 at 08:47 AM.
BigJimOutlaw is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:31 AM   #46
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,466
Jets Dump Tebo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Although I disagree with your view, you are entitled to it. I presume you are also OK with 3 consenting adults getting married? I mean, if 3 consenting adults really love each other, why shouldn't they be able to get married? Wouldn't you agree that 2 is just an arbitrary number?

Interracial couples can produce children, by the way. Gay couples cannot. Every child has 1 mother and 1 father. That is a biological certainty.
And why not consenting cousins? As a society, where is the line drawn? What does this set of values show to our children?

Aren't there laws on the books that don't allow cousins etc. to marry? What if they don't want to have kids? Should we as a society be bigots and prevent them from marrying then?

Should we stop there? What about brothers and sisters? I know, everyone is thinking that's gross. Why is that anymore gross than what you are saying should be acceptable now?

Last edited by magnus : 06-14-2013 at 11:45 AM.
magnus is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:40 AM   #47
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post

For those unaware, FOTF founder James Dobson claims gays will destroy the earth, gay marriage will lead to donkey-man marriage, and that women wait for their husbands to assume leadership. So clearly he's a down-the-middle sociological scholar with no agenda, whose groups can and should be cited in all credible discussions.
And just like the atheist that needs to stand up for their right to not believe.... A man (or woman) will eventually want to have their right to marry a donkey.
magnus is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:49 AM   #48
jakerock
Hey ho howdy!
 
jakerock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lee, NH
Posts: 2,512
Good grief.
__________________
A sufficiently advanced troll
jakerock is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:20 PM   #49
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
And just like the atheist that needs to stand up for their right to not believe.... A man (or woman) will eventually want to have their right to marry a donkey.
All such stories only mean is that there are weirdos everywhere.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 06-14-2013 at 05:11 PM.
BigJimOutlaw is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #50
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
And why not consenting cousins? As a society, where is the line drawn? What does this set of values show to our children?

Aren't there laws on the books that don't allow cousins etc. to marry? What if they don't want to have kids? Should we as a society be bigots and prevent them from marrying then?

Should we stop there? What about brothers and sisters? I know, everyone is thinking that's gross. Why is that anymore gross than what you are saying should be acceptable now?
There is a reason why immediate family memebers can't get married. The lack of genetic diversity can cause serious birth defects in any offspring. In this particular case it really is all about the children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
A man (or woman) will eventually want to have their right to marry a donkey.
I am so sick of hearing this argument! A marriage between two consenting adult humans is NOT the same thing as a human marrying an animal. Allowing the former does not mean we ever have to allow the latter.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #51
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,466
Jets Dump Tebo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
There is a reason why immediate family memebers can't get married. The lack of genetic diversity can cause serious birth defects in any offspring. In this particular case it really is all about the children.:
But if that's he case then why do YOU have the right to be a bigot and not let them marry each other? Again, what if they don't want to have children? Who are they hurting then?

If you're willing to say one thing is okay then why not the other? If the argument is that it's not your place to say who consenting adults can choose to marry then its not your place. Period.

And seriously, why not polygamy? If we don't see any moral problems with these other things then why can't a person marry more than one person? It seems that we're only able to accept so much at one time but eventually even something like that will be accepted in our society.

Last edited by magnus : 06-14-2013 at 12:31 PM.
magnus is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:26 PM   #52
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,359
I actually have no problem with family members getting married if they're both consenting adults. Live and let live.

I don't have any problem with polygamy either, but in that case I can see where it would be an issue from a management perspective for the government. Also the potential for abuse would be much higher.

My only moral objection to any of this is that there is an entire class of people being discriminiated against because of religious bigotry.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:54 PM   #53
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post

My only moral objection to any of this is that there is an entire class of people being discriminiated against because of religious bigotry.
I think that folks have other problems with this besides just the religious views.
magnus is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 02:29 PM   #54
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post
I think that folks have other problems with this besides just the religious views.
Like what? It's "icky"? What do you, or anyone else, care what two consenting adults do with their lives?
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #55
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Like what? It's "icky"? What do you, or anyone else, care what two consenting adults do with their lives?
I care about what my children see as acceptable values for our society. I can't say what other people think about it but can only provide my opinion.

I don't like shows on TV that depict things like this as normal acceptable behavior. This would include more than just gay and lesbian behavior. Our society has become more and more inundated with this and many other things as the norm.

I could not stand president Clinton because not only was he a liar but he made a mockery of what is supposed to be the greatest job of influence in America.

Yes, those are my opinions and its a free country. So, I'm allowed to have my opinions on the subject and you're not going to be able to change my mind any more than I'm going to be able to change yours. But I do have to wonder, where do we draw the line on what is acceptable as a society and when is it okay to stand up for morality (and not be labeled a bigot)?
magnus is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 07:27 PM   #56
atmuscarella
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 3,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus View Post

Yes, those are my opinions and its a free country. So, I'm allowed to have my opinions on the subject and you're not going to be able to change my mind any more than I'm going to be able to change yours. But I do have to wonder, where do we draw the line on what is acceptable as a society and when is it okay to stand up for morality (and not be labeled a bigot)?
If you don't think homosexual relationships are a good idea don't have one. Outside of religious dogma there is zero reasons for you, I, or anyone else to care if another person is in love with someone of the same sex or if they can get married under the eyes of the law.

On the bigot thing while I don't believe not supporting gay marriage alone makes one a bigot, a bigot would have that view.
__________________
atmuscarella
R.I.P. - 04/04 - Dish 510
09/05 - Humax T-800
R.I.P. - 08/06 - TiVo
05/08 - TiVo HD
06/08 - Panasonic 50PZ800U 50" Plazma!!
03/10 - Series 3
11/10 - Premiere
09/13 - Roamio
atmuscarella is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:12 PM   #57
MeInDallas
Registered User
 
MeInDallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 831
I'm always surprised at how threads like these go on and on and on and on.
MeInDallas is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:21 PM   #58
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDallas View Post
I'm always surprised at how threads like these go on and on and on and on.
Yep, and they resolve nothing because people care more about winning the argument about their entrenched views than in actually considering anything anyone else writes.

Of course, in a properly moderated forum this thread would have been locked a long time ago as it has turned into a political discussion, which is clearly prohibited in this section of the forum. Not that I didn't contribute to that tangent. Just sayin'.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)
Loach is offline  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:33 PM   #59
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
When I said the media bigots twist studies to make false comparisons, I was referring quite specifically to groups like Focus on the Family. And so now you have given me a link to a FOTF affiliate. And that link proves my exact point. So thank you.

The studies don't need gay marriage supporters to discount them. They discount themselves. Well actually, only one of the studies linked to in that article is even working. And even though the FOTF article cherry-picks sentences from the study, they/you ignore the fact that the study admits outright that it did little to no examination of actual SS couples, and no married SS couples at all because the study is so old it pre-dates SSM. LOL.

So thank you again for proving my point that they, and you as their proxy, twist inapplicable studies to fit an agenda.

For those unaware, FOTF founder James Dobson claims gays will destroy the earth, gay marriage will lead to donkey-man marriage, and that women wait for their husbands to assume leadership. So clearly he's a down-the-middle sociological scholar with no agenda, whose groups can and should be cited in all credible discussions.
The studies are applicable in that they find advantages for children who benefit from having a married mother and father. A same-sex marriage can never provide that.

As for your last paragraph, it's basically inaccurate and somewhat unintelligible leftist talking points about James Dobson and FOTF.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)
Loach is offline  
Old 06-15-2013, 07:36 AM   #60
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
The studies are applicable in that they find advantages for children who benefit from having a married mother and father. A same-sex marriage can never provide that.

As for your last paragraph, it's basically inaccurate and somewhat unintelligible leftist talking points about James Dobson and FOTF.
LOL, no. You can't credibly claim it's applicable when it doesn't even study what we are talking about. Especially when it's so old it pre-dates what we are talking about.

There is also nothing inaccurate about the quotes, as much as I'm sure you wish otherwise. So feigning dismissal due to left-wing agenda lacks credibility too.
BigJimOutlaw is offline  
Closed Thread
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |