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Old 06-06-2013, 09:52 AM   #121
mr.unnatural
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The problem I have is that it's like a half-finished product. There's slow menus, SD menus all over the place, it hasn't kept pace with handling duplicate SD/HD channels, and the list goes on. They have the best product out there, but it still seems like a beta, after what 14 years?
Again with the menus. So now you're bashing the Tivos you raved about in the Ceton InfiniTV thread? Apparently there is no DVR on the market that will satisfy you. You just can't make up your mind what to hate.

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Yes, you can work around it. However, TiVo is a premium product, and you shouldn't have to work around things.
Then you should go back and get your HTPC working because there are absolutely no workarounds required (at least for those of us that know how to install Windows and tuners).
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:16 AM   #122
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Except that was an issue you could only reproduce in the lab when you took the case off. In the real world, the case would be on, so the issue would be impossible to re-create.
As I recall it, the original design released to the public DIDN'T HAVE A PROTECTIVE CASE, or any form of edge/side guard/bumper, so the antenna was exposed. Then, companies started selling them, while the iPeople whined that they should be provided to them for free. I stopped reading any further developments past that point. I only own dumb-phones, anyway.

It's hilarious that you felt compelled to jump in. You must be an iPerson.

Now, cuss, swear, or correct me all you like, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. I really only care about TiVos & technology that I actually own or use.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #123
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My main complaint with Tivo is that it needs to use two tuners for back to back programs on the same channel when the first program is set to record longer and overlaps the second program.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:04 PM   #124
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My main complaint with Tivo is that it needs to use two tuners for back to back programs on the same channel when the first program is set to record longer and overlaps the second program.
That's the first thing I noticed when I came back to TiVo from the DirecTV DVRs. The DirecTV DVRs don't have that problem.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:37 PM   #125
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That's the first thing I noticed when I came back to TiVo from the DirecTV DVRs. The DirecTV DVRs don't have that problem.
Neither do my tuners with Windows Media Center. Every recording gets its own tuner. I've set up the tuner priorities for each channel I record so that it polls the ones I specify first and then checks them in order of availability. If the 1st tuner is in use then it skips to the next one in the list until it finds one that's available.

I can't recall if I was able to work around this on my Tivos by padding both recordings. IIRC, I had two S3 Tivos and I would generally schedule back-to-back recordings on the same channel on separate Tivos to avoid the overlap problem. I'm surprised that Tivo hasn't fixed such an obvious problem.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:15 PM   #126
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I guess you never, for a moment considered it was TWC that was the source of your problems and suggested that TWC make their system work correctly and credit you for services you did not receive?

Seems to me TWC is the one you should be venting at, not giving more money to.
There are known issues with the Premier 4 and the tuners that Tivo put in them giving "black" channels. There's two threads ongoing in the Premiere forums currently.

I myself, have this happening ONLY on my Premiere XL4s for months, and have to call Tivo every 2 months to get a credit (although that doesn't outweigh the amount I have to spend on Amazon to download because Tivo STILL doesn't have an Amazon Prime app support yet).

So it's quite possible this is a Tivo issue.

Also possible it's an SDV issue with the stupid tuning adapter and Tivo's partially to blame for that with their last comments to the FCC about how all was fine and honkey-dory and no issues with the Tuning Adapters at all, yet you see here in the Tivo forums that there are constant issues with them.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:37 PM   #127
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Again with the menus. So now you're bashing the Tivos you raved about in the Ceton InfiniTV thread? Apparently there is no DVR on the market that will satisfy you. You just can't make up your mind what to hate.

Then you should go back and get your HTPC working because there are absolutely no workarounds required (at least for those of us that know how to install Windows and tuners).
There is no perfect system out there. TiVo has a lot of issues, but it's the best on the market, and the only one that's really workable.

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As I recall it, the original design released to the public DIDN'T HAVE A PROTECTIVE CASE, or any form of edge/side guard/bumper, so the antenna was exposed. Then, companies started selling them, while the iPeople whined that they should be provided to them for free. I stopped reading any further developments past that point. I only own dumb-phones, anyway.
The only way you could reproduce it was to take it's case off and do it in a test type of environment. Anyone who is actually using an iPhone without a case in the real world is a blathering idiot, and the spiderweb-cracked screen will probably be a lot worse than the reception problems.

EDIT: Combine posts.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #128
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There is no perfect system out there. TiVo has a lot of issues, but it's the best on the market, and the only one that's really workable.
Perfection is perception. What's perfect for some may be a POS for others. It all boils down to personal preference and what you expect out of your DVR. If I still felt Tivo was the best on the market I'd still be using it. It's a great DVR, and possibly the best commercial DVR available. There are other options available for the DIY sector that do much more than a Tivo ever could.

How is Tivo the only "workable" system? It may be the only workable solution for you since it's clear you can't get a HTPC to work properly, but it's certainly not the only solution for many of us. HTPCs are far more flexible than any model Tivo out there, past or present. You've just got to know what to do with them.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:33 AM   #129
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The only way you could reproduce it was to take it's case off and do it in a test type of environment. Anyone who is actually using an iPhone without a case in the real world is a blathering idiot, and the spiderweb-cracked screen will probably be a lot worse than the reception problems.

EDIT: Combine posts.
Wow! The original iPhone4 did NOT come with any case whatsoever! It was only AFTER everybody complained that Apple started to (reluctantly) ship the phones with a free case. That only lasted three months -- then you had to REQUEST the free case. Then there were class-action lawsuits, now Apple is giving everybody $15 or a free case if they didn't originally request a case.

It's tough to argue with people who can't remember what happened three years ago.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:09 AM   #130
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Wow! The original iPhone4 did NOT come with any case whatsoever! It was only AFTER everybody complained that Apple started to (reluctantly) ship the phones with a free case. That only lasted three months -- then you had to REQUEST the free case. Then there were class-action lawsuits, now Apple is giving everybody $15 or a free case if they didn't originally request a case.

It's tough to argue with people who can't remember what happened three years ago.
It's also funny because if it ONLY happened in a "test environment" then how did it even become a thing in the first place? Oh, I know, it was because it happened to people and they complained about it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:12 PM   #131
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Perfection is perception. What's perfect for some may be a POS for others. It all boils down to personal preference and what you expect out of your DVR. If I still felt Tivo was the best on the market I'd still be using it. It's a great DVR, and possibly the best commercial DVR available. There are other options available for the DIY sector that do much more than a Tivo ever could.

How is Tivo the only "workable" system? It may be the only workable solution for you since it's clear you can't get a HTPC to work properly, but it's certainly not the only solution for many of us. HTPCs are far more flexible than any model Tivo out there, past or present. You've just got to know what to do with them.
Switching between HD and SD menus, for example, is not a perfect product. Lack of DTA, lack of HD/SD channel management, etc, is not a perfect product.

It's the only system out there for cable that works, work reliably, and is easy to use. DirecTV has their system, which, from what I hear, is also very good.

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Wow! The original iPhone4 did NOT come with any case whatsoever! It was only AFTER everybody complained that Apple started to (reluctantly) ship the phones with a free case. That only lasted three months -- then you had to REQUEST the free case. Then there were class-action lawsuits, now Apple is giving everybody $15 or a free case if they didn't originally request a case.

It's tough to argue with people who can't remember what happened three years ago.
Anyone who didn't have a case on their iPhone 4 was an idiot, and no, Apple doesn't provide the requisite case for an iPhone. The spiderweb cracking that you will get on the phone if you don't have it in a case is a whole lot worse than the antenna issue.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:09 AM   #132
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It's the only system out there for cable that works, work reliably, and is easy to use.
You sure do like your absolutes, just as much as you like being wrong I guess.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:26 AM   #133
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You sure do like your absolutes, just as much as you like being wrong I guess.
Yeah, with his every post, he's completely discredited his comparison to perfection existing in smartphones, as he feels it should also exist in DVRs.

Or, maybe I'm just supposed to buy a protective case for my TiVo, and all my problems will be solved. My post about that "I must be holding my TiVo wrong" that started this whole mess was a joke, for crying out loud. It was good old satire, and wasn't even aimed at anybody, directly.

I do find it pathetic, that by the time the Premiere hit the market, there were smartphones with much more processing power, than the Premiere itself.

Can't we all just get along? Never mind, stupid question, considering the state of these forums, and people with over 10,000 posts, who never, once, have posted anything productive, or helpful. There's a few left that don't fit that mold, but they're a dying breed on here...
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:15 AM   #134
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It's the only system out there for cable that works, work reliably, and is easy to use.
Umm, no it's not, at least not for most of us. That's just your opinion and couldn't be further from actual fact.

Case in point: my brother-in-law is fairly tech savvy, yet he chose to go with a Verizon DVR vs. a Tivo or a HTPC and he's perfectly content with it. AFAIK, he's never had any issues with it or missed any recordings. It certainly wouldn't be my choice of DVR, but it's convenient for him and one less thing he has to worry about. If it dies he only has to swap it out for another one.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:33 AM   #135
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Umm, no it's not, at least not for most of us. That's just your opinion and couldn't be further from actual fact.

Case in point: my brother-in-law is fairly tech savvy, yet he chose to go with a Verizon DVR vs. a Tivo or a HTPC and he's perfectly content with it. AFAIK, he's never had any issues with it or missed any recordings. It certainly wouldn't be my choice of DVR, but it's convenient for him and one less thing he has to worry about. If it dies he only has to swap it out for another one.
I'm very tech-savvy, and I have a Verizon DVR myself. Works great, all the menus are in HD, no sluggishness, cheap multiroom feature, can add any eSATA drive you want. If it dies, I transfer my DVR settings to the cloud, get a new one for free, then transfer them back. The only thing I miss from Tivo is the Wishlist/keyword recording feature.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:14 PM   #136
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Umm, no it's not, at least not for most of us. That's just your opinion and couldn't be further from actual fact.

Case in point: my brother-in-law is fairly tech savvy, yet he chose to go with a Verizon DVR vs. a Tivo or a HTPC and he's perfectly content with it. AFAIK, he's never had any issues with it or missed any recordings. It certainly wouldn't be my choice of DVR, but it's convenient for him and one less thing he has to worry about. If it dies he only has to swap it out for another one.
None of the cable-provided DVRs are too hot. Serviceable, maybe, but not great.

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I'm very tech-savvy, and I have a Verizon DVR myself. Works great, all the menus are in HD, no sluggishness, cheap multiroom feature, can add any eSATA drive you want. If it dies, I transfer my DVR settings to the cloud, get a new one for free, then transfer them back. The only thing I miss from Tivo is the Wishlist/keyword recording feature.
Cheap? Free? I don't think so. They charge an arm and a leg, and over 48 months, it's likely more expensive than TiVo.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #137
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None of the cable-provided DVRs are too hot. Serviceable, maybe, but not great.
I'm not trying to promote cableco DVRs. I'm just pointing out that they're more than adequate for some people. I'm still trying to figure out why you own one since they all seem to annoy you in some way or another.

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Cheap? Free? I don't think so. They charge an arm and a leg, and over 48 months, it's likely more expensive than TiVo.
I think your math is more than just a bit off. Verizon charges $16.99 per month for their HD DVR. A Tivo Premiere costs $14.99 per month plus the initial cost of the DVR ($99, IIRC) with a one-year commitment. At $2 difference in cost it will take you 50 months just to break even, and that's assuming the Tivo doesn't die somewhere along the way, which will probably set you back another $150 for a refurbished replacement.

With no Tivo commitment, you pay full retail price for the DVR plus $19.99 per month. Lifetime service now costs $499. Tivo just keeps jacking up the prices for their service, which is the main reason I switched to HTPCs. The fact that mine are as reliable as a Tivo just makes it all that much sweeter.

I think I paid $99 for my lifetime service and probably would buy it at $199, but $499 is just insane. I'm amazed they can still stay in business at these prices. Tivo's not only charging an arm and a leg, but they want you to throw in your first-born along with it.

Here's the excerpt from the Tivo website for your edification:

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For TiVo Premiere DVRs:

(a) When purchasing a TiVo Premiere DVR and subscription at the same time directly from TiVo, you may select one of the following options:

(1) You may purchase a TiVo DVR and service bundle with (a) a DVR fee of $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the 320GB TiVo Premiere DVR or $149.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the 500GB TiVo Premiere DVR or $249.99 (includes an instant $250 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL or Premiere 4 DVR or $399.99 (includes an instant $100 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL4/Elite DVR and (b) a monthly service fee of $14.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99; or

(2) You may purchase a TiVo DVR and service bundle at (a) the full MSRP (no instant savings) DVR fee of $299.99 for a 320GB TiVo Premiere DVR or $349.99 for a 500GB TiVo Premiere DVR or $499.99 for a TiVo Premiere XL, Premiere XL4/Elite or Premiere 4 DVR and (b) subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with no commitment (renews monthly until you cancel) when you order by phone.

(b) When purchasing a TiVo Premiere DVR from a third party retailer at $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the 320GB TiVo Premiere DVR or $149.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the 500GB TiVo Premiere DVR or $249.99 (includes an instant $250 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL or Premiere 4 DVR or $399.99 (includes an instant $100 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL4/Elite DVR, you may only subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $14.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99.


(ii) For all other TiVo DVRs, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with no commitment or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99.

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Old 06-13-2013, 04:47 PM   #138
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I'll give you adequate, not good by any stretch of the imagination. I have to have something. TiVo is the best/least bad option out there. It fundamentally is a good device, it just has a lot of unfinished bits and pieces to it that need to be dealt with.

Comcast charges $17/mo for their DVR. TiVo costs $650, and has no monthly fees. 38 months, and the amortized monthly cost goes below $17. The math works out for the TP4 with Minis as well compared to Comcast's $17/mo DVR, $3/mo whole home fee, and $10/mo for each additional box.

The "service" charge is annoying, but when you step back and realize that TiVo is just shifting the cost around to places it doesn't really belong, it's not so bad. They really should just advertise the box as being $650, but the problem is too many stupid Americans would freak out, so they have to hide the costs, and make monthly subscriptions that anyone with basic math skills can figure out are a total rip-off in order to pad their investor reports for Wall Street's absurd accounting system.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:28 PM   #139
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I'll give you adequate, not good by any stretch of the imagination. I have to have something. TiVo is the best/least bad option out there. It fundamentally is a good device, it just has a lot of unfinished bits and pieces to it that need to be dealt with.

Comcast charges $17/mo for their DVR. TiVo costs $650, and has no monthly fees. 38 months, and the amortized monthly cost goes below $17. The math works out for the TP4 with Minis as well compared to Comcast's $17/mo DVR, $3/mo whole home fee, and $10/mo for each additional box.

The "service" charge is annoying, but when you step back and realize that TiVo is just shifting the cost around to places it doesn't really belong, it's not so bad. They really should just advertise the box as being $650, but the problem is too many stupid Americans would freak out, so they have to hide the costs, and make monthly subscriptions that anyone with basic math skills can figure out are a total rip-off in order to pad their investor reports for Wall Street's absurd accounting system.
I not going to take these other things into account but one must if your going to make a cost comparison

1) The resale value of a Lifetime TiVo
2) The ability to upgrade the hard drive
3) the free in-home service included with the cable co. DVR cost

There is no single answer to the DVR, that why TiVo is the only independent DVR maker in the market (I am not counting any PC DVR as a product).
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:37 PM   #140
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I not going to take these other things into account but one must if your going to make a cost comparison

1) The resale value of a Lifetime TiVo
2) The ability to upgrade the hard drive
3) the free in-home service included with the cable co. DVR cost

There is no single answer to the DVR, that why TiVo is the only independent DVR maker in the market (I am not counting any PC DVR as a product).
You may want to add:
4) The ability to possibly recover your recordings, or the whole shebang, under certain circumstances, as well as new backup tools being available(which you can't do with cableco DVRs).
5) Losing all of 1,2,&4 but getting a free replacement device, when using a cableco DVR, at no cost, if any part of it fails.

...and possibly edit #3, because it's a bit murky (But, I think you mean equipment replacement/service calls, like I spelled out in your #5).

I'm agreeing with you, just adding my 2 cents...

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Old 06-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #141
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You may want to add:
4) The ability to possibly recover your recordings, or the whole shebang, under certain circumstances, as well as new backup tools being available(which you can't do with cableco DVRs).
5) Losing all of 1,2,&4 but getting a free replacement device, when using a cableco DVR, at no cost, if any part of it fails.

...and possibly edit #3, because it's a bit murky (But, I think you mean equipment replacement/service calls, like I spelled out in your #5).

I'm agreeing with you, just adding my 2 cents...
A good 2 cents at that, I could spend a lot more space putting together a lot more stuff, but I was just pointing out that any TiVo to cable co DVR comparisons is not simple or easy to do as different users/families all have different amount of expertise and needs.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #142
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A good 2 cents at that, I could spend a lot more space putting together a lot more stuff, but I was just pointing out that any TiVo to cable co DVR comparisons is not simple or easy to do as different users/families all have different amount of expertise and needs.
Precisely. Not everyone needs or wants the extra features, expense, or maintenance required with owning your own DVR. Cableco DVRs fill a consumer niche the same way that Tivos and HTPCs do. Just about everyone here would not fall into that same category, but you have to realize it exists.
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Old 06-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #143
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Unfortunately, the cable companies, like cell phone companies, want the hardware to be owned by them end to end, partly because of idiot consumers who can't troubleshoot and maintain their own equipment, and partly because of the profit involved. In a perfect world, the cable company wouldn't be allowed to sell user equipment, so the market would be fully decoupled, and thus easy to compete in. Same for the cell phone manufacturers. But unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:20 PM   #144
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... partly because of idiot consumers who can't troubleshoot and maintain their own equipment...
I'm laughing too hard at the moment to make any comments.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:20 AM   #145
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Unfortunately, the cable companies, like cell phone companies, want the hardware to be owned by them end to end, partly because of idiot consumers who can't troubleshoot and maintain their own equipment,.
You think like some wall street person is an idiot because he makes over a Mill /year and does not want to use his time to troubleshoot and maintain his/her own equipment, give me a break
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:03 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by lessd View Post
You think like some wall street person is an idiot because he makes over a Mill /year and does not want to use his time to troubleshoot and maintain his/her own equipment, give me a break
I don't assume that some Wall Street person making over a million dollars a year is an idiot, I assume he is a criminal.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:13 AM   #147
lessd
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I don't assume that some Wall Street person making over a million dollars a year is an idiot, I assume he is a criminal.
My cousin has one kid on wall St. making that kind of money, now I have to spoil his day telling him his kid is a criminal (and he was such a nice boy), I think I will wait until after father's day.

It better to be an idiot or criminal ??
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:17 AM   #148
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Substitute criminal for money-shuffler that contributes nothing useful other than liquidity then.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:11 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by lessd View Post
My cousin has one kid on wall St. making that kind of money, now I have to spoil his day telling him his kid is a criminal (and he was such a nice boy), I think I will wait until after father's day.

It better to be an idiot or criminal ??
It is hard to say, but then so many are both. The idiot part may not in every case be true. The criminal part is, although our legal system is so massively screwed up it is in general not possible to try or convict criminals. There is no way any human being can earn a million dollars a year. It is simply not physically possible to work 50 times harder and longer than someone earning $20,000 a year. The remainder is blatantly stolen, taken by persons for no other reason than being who they are, which is among other things in control of the purse strings. What's more, being on Wall St. automatically makes him part of a criminal conspiracy, even if he were only to take a $1 salary.

As to being "nice", it seems unlikely he would ever get mixed up in that den of thieves if he actually were.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:25 PM   #150
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I do find it pathetic, that by the time the Premiere hit the market, there were smartphones with much more processing power, than the Premiere itself.
First of all, I am not sure that is actually true. I'm not familiar with smart phone processors, so I cannot categorically state it to be false, but while the TiVo systems are not overburdened with resources, their CPUs are fairly powerful, given their cost. The CPUs in my S3 certainly out-performed any single core CPU I have ever had in any of my desktop PCs, and gave a pretty good run for the money a number of the dual core CPUs I have had. Of course, they don't compare to the 6 and 8 core monsters a number of my PCs have in them, but then neither does a smart phone.

The real point here, however, is DVRs do not need radical central processors, especially not when they can sport dedicated RISC processors that do the job far more effectively and efficiently, for less cost to the consumer.

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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
considering the state of these forums, and people with over 10,000 posts, who never, once, have posted anything productive, or helpful. There's a few left that don't fit that mold, but they're a dying breed on here...
Well, I see your point. I'm certainly not impressed with post count alone, especially not when it comes from thousands of posts in the off-topic areas consisting of fewer than 100 words on average.

Last edited by lrhorer : 06-16-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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