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Old 06-08-2013, 10:34 AM   #1
gl9500
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analog tuner

I have two security camera that feeds thru an RF modulator into my Premiere (antenna input). Until a few days ago, it worked flawlessly. Now when I try to tune those analog channels (4 and 14, if that matters), I get "Searching for signal on this %s channel..."

Any ideas?
Thanks!
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:30 AM   #2
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Take the camera feed directly to a TV with an antenna input to see if there is indeed a signal going through.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #3
gl9500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
Take the camera feed directly to a TV with an antenna input to see if there is indeed a signal going through.
thanks... already verified that. it's definitely the tivo not recognizing the signal. i sent the signal to 2 different TVs just fine.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:22 PM   #4
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Did you get the recent 20.3.1 software update? Maybe that screwed something up.
Did you visit the Diagnostics page on the TiVo which has tuner information and see if there is anything interesting there? You may have to mess with signal levels either by boosting signal with an amp or attenuating the signal perhaps by going through a splitter. Tuners on the Premiere units are just not that great when it comes to dynamic range.
Also you didn't mention if you tried simply rebooting the TiVo.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
Did you get the recent 20.3.1 software update? Maybe that screwed something up.
Did you visit the Diagnostics page on the TiVo which has tuner information and see if there is anything interesting there? You may have to mess with signal levels either by boosting signal with an amp or attenuating the signal perhaps by going through a splitter. Tuners on the Premiere units are just not that great when it comes to dynamic range.
Also you didn't mention if you tried simply rebooting the TiVo.
I am now on 20.3.1, so that's probably it. (sucks!)

Thanks for your suggestions. I did reboot it after the first time I noticed it was wonky. And I just happened to have rebooted it again just before I read your last reply.

I did try adding an amp before, just tried it again at the end closest to the tivo. I tried swapping splitters and removing splitters.

I will note that I had an OTA antenna connected on the same analog line and it was tuning in the OTA digital stations correctly, so at least I know the tuner and plug do work. It does not seem to like the analog channels my security cam are on.

I check the Diagnostics and don't really know what to look for but I compared between one analog channel and one digital and nothing jumped out at me.
I've attached images (fwiw)...
IMG_0383.JPG
IMG_0384.JPG
IMG_0385.JPG

Thanks for the ideas!

Last edited by gl9500 : 08-18-2013 at 05:59 PM. Reason: removed images
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:53 PM   #6
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Does the TiVo have a CableCARD? If so it could be that those channels are no longer analog according to your CableCARD so it's trying to tune a QAM digital channel.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:15 AM   #7
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Does the TiVo have a CableCARD? If so it could be that those channels are no longer analog according to your CableCARD so it's trying to tune a QAM digital channel.
A CableCARD has nothing to do with OTA channels.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:56 AM   #8
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A CableCARD has nothing to do with OTA channels.
But since analog OTA channels no longer exist (except for a very few low-power stations that got grandfathered), the TiVo thinks (or thought) that this guy's security camera feed was analog cable channels, and if his cable lineup has changed lately, it might think they no longer exist.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:53 AM   #9
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Yes, I do have one cablecard.

My diagnostics screens (posted earlier), if they are to be believed, say that the "CableCARD Association: None".

I also get the same "CableCARD Association: None" on a digital OTA channel that I can tune in.

FWIW, my 2 analog channels (4, 14) do exist in the Channel List as "antenna" with a * next to it saying they are scanned channels. I tried changing my modulator to a diff channel on UHF and CABLE bands but the tivo would not channel scan those. (I didn't bother trying Hr and Lr bands)

Thanks for the ideas everyone.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:23 AM   #10
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Have you tried doing a channel re-scan on the TiVo with active output from the modulator? The other thing you could try is see if you can connect modulator to cable input on the TiVo instead of antenna and see if you can then tune it.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:16 AM   #11
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Have you tried doing a channel re-scan on the TiVo with active output from the modulator? The other thing you could try is see if you can connect modulator to cable input on the TiVo instead of antenna and see if you can then tune it.
I did try rescanning and the tivo did not find them, and at varying channel locations (even tho i know the signals are good and strong).

I was hoping to avoid merging the signals onto the cable input side, in part because i don't have filters to make sure the signal does not go back outside my house.

Thanks
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:49 AM   #12
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But since analog OTA channels no longer exist (except for a very few low-power stations that got grandfathered), the TiVo thinks (or thought) that this guy's security camera feed was analog cable channels, and if his cable lineup has changed lately, it might think they no longer exist.
No, the feed was analog OTA channels. The OTA connector and the cable connector are separate. These channels never "existed" in the first place.

I suspect that even if they were doing better testing than they are, this might still have "fallen through the cracks" as it were since, as you say, there are few analog OTA channels left.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:50 AM   #13
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Not that it helps, but this post in the 20.3.1 update thread confirms (to me at least) that the update did it to you:

"I've noticed one small oddity (OTA-only, currently SDUI): When I tune to a station with no signal, the message now reads "Searching for signal on this %s channel..." where it used to read "antenna channel". Something got garbled. "

The only difference is he said a channel with no signal, while you say you have confirmed a signal. But the message is the same.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #14
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Not that it helps, but this post in the 20.3.1 update thread confirms (to me at least) that the update did it to you:

"I've noticed one small oddity (OTA-only, currently SDUI): When I tune to a station with no signal, the message now reads "Searching for signal on this %s channel..." where it used to read "antenna channel". Something got garbled. "

The only difference is he said a channel with no signal, while you say you have confirmed a signal. But the message is the same.
It occurred to me later that the "%s" might be some kind of string variable (source maybe?) that didn't get replaced with "antenna" or "cable" because some bit of code didn't run. Your comment here makes me wonder if the same code that should have handled the string variable might also have failed to setup some data value used by the tuner chip.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #15
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It's possible TiVo somehow screwed up the ability of the OTA tuner to tune analog. Analog OTA channels are really rare so I could see something like that slipping through the beta.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:21 PM   #16
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I have a VCR with rf on channel 3 that I could use a signal source. Since I have no antenna right now, what would I lose if I re-ran setup to test the analog section of the tuner?
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:28 PM   #17
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Nothing. If you set it up as antenna + cable then you'll lose nothing.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:08 PM   #18
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It's possible TiVo somehow screwed up the ability of the OTA tuner to tune analog. Analog OTA channels are really rare so I could see something like that slipping through the beta.
That would match my experience. I lost all my analog OTA channels a couple days ago. They come through on the TV just fine, but on my Premiere I get the message "Searching for a signal on this channel (V52)..."

I know analog OTA is "really rare" but my part of the US is still going through the analog-to-digital transition.

Thanks to this problem, my Premiere can no longer get Fox or PBS.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:26 AM   #19
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Report it. It's probably a bug and not intentional. Probably didn't get caught in beta because there was no one in the beta who had access to analog OTA.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:01 PM   #20
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Report it. It's probably a bug and not intentional. Probably didn't get caught in beta because there was no one in the beta who had access to analog OTA.
I can donate some old VCRs with channel 3 outputs. They work. I can even add tapes of a test pattern.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:08 PM   #21
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If the FCC approves then the next generation of TiVo wont support analog at all, so I doubt TiVo is putting much effort into analog recording right now. Probably just slipped through the cracks.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:52 PM   #22
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If the FCC approves then the next generation of TiVo wont support analog at all, so I doubt TiVo is putting much effort into analog recording right now. Probably just slipped through the cracks.
I think we're missing the original post. There are no OTA analog channels in Chicago. Missing video data is from camera devices.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:12 PM   #23
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I think we're missing the original post. There are no OTA analog channels in Chicago. Missing video data is from camera devices.
Um, no. He's just explaining why reception of analog channels via the antenna might not have been tested.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:22 PM   #24
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Yeah there appears to be a bug in the last software release which disabled analog input on the OTA port. I'm guessing that bug slipped through the beta because very few people have access to analog OTA and as such the chances of a beta tester actually finding that bug were slim.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:16 PM   #25
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Yeah there appears to be a bug in the last software release which disabled analog input on the OTA port. I'm guessing that bug slipped through the beta because very few people have access to analog OTA and as such the chances of a beta tester actually finding that bug were slim.
As I posted on the TiVo site, I ran my cable to the ANT input, reran Guided Setup to enable OTA and my unit found channels 2 to 13. These are the same channels as OTA and I also ran them to my Sony DHG's ANT input with the same results. When scanning for channels I normally get 2-24 and 70 and 98 on the cable inputs of the Sony. All frequencies are correct.

I have five VCRs. Two are older and I use them to supply VBI information to the Sony. Three are digital and strip the VBI data perhaps for TBC use. I don't know. But with a firewire interface they can talk to each other. I will gladly send TiVo a VCR if it will help their testing.

The OP is in Chicago. Perhaps having the call letters of these analog FOX and PBS channels we can determine more information? It seems channels still sending analog have -LP in their call letters. The Chicago OTA channel for Fox is 1MW UHF.

Maybe he moved and never updated his/her location?
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:47 AM   #26
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The OP is in Chicago. Perhaps having the call letters of these analog FOX and PBS channels we can determine more information? It seems channels still sending analog have -LP in their call letters. The Chicago OTA channel for Fox is 1MW UHF.

Maybe he moved and never updated his/her location?
Yes, the OP is in Chicago. But he was having issues with two security camera feeds on the antenna input.

I chimed in saying I was also having a problem with analog channels on the antenna input. I'm in rural central Arizona where we still have analog broadcast stations, including local translators for the FOX and PBS affiliates in Phoenix. (We can't get the Phoenix signals because there are mountains in the way.) More specifically, I can no longer get K36AE or K42AC.

TiVo has asked me to do some more troubleshooting and has suggested that my Premiere's analog tuner may "have burned out." The troubleshooting will take some time and require some reconfiguration; I'm hoping to get to it this weekend.
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:43 AM   #27
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Your two listed stations are in the FCC database as translators of KSAZ and KAET. Your problem sounds reasonable. The FCC does show both of these as digital however. I have a translator station about 20 miles away through two very high mountains and it is digital. We both live in the middle of nowhere. I don't know about Clarkdale, but my borough has a pop. of 4k and I have mountains everywhere.

I wasn't discounting your problem, but the chance of LP analog stations in Chicago are not very high. I can assume you sent the stations an email or called them, asking if they changed to digital? If they share a facility this would not be out of the range of possibilities and really bad timing.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:55 PM   #28
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...the chance of LP analog stations in Chicago are not very high....
Channels 22, 23, 33, 34,41,48

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/jrosin5765/tv/niltv.html
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:03 AM   #29
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I stand corrected. Very nice web site/document.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:27 PM   #30
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I stand corrected. Very nice web site/document.
I figured Chicago would have enough "ethnic clusters" to make low power stations likely.
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