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Old 06-07-2013, 10:43 AM   #1
momflee
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OTA antenna not as clear thru TIVO

I have been using Mohu Leaf Ultimate antenna plugged directly into TV and the picture quality was unbelievably clear - much clearer than satellite or cable. I wanted to record, so I bought the Tivo Premiere and am plugging antenna coaxial cable into the unit and connect unit with TV with HDMI cable. The disappointment is that although I'm getting my channels ok, the picture quality is not nearly as clear as when the antenna went straight into the TV. What are the reasons, and should I split the coaxial so that I can use different sources - sometimes TV with antenna, sometimes Tivo? (The picture quality with Tivo is about the same as with satellite and cable.)
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:47 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momflee View Post
I have been using Mohu Leaf Ultimate antenna plugged directly into TV and the picture quality was unbelievably clear - much clearer than satellite or cable. I wanted to record, so I bought the Tivo Premiere and am plugging antenna coaxial cable into the unit and connect unit with TV with HDMI cable. The disappointment is that although I'm getting my channels ok, the picture quality is not nearly as clear as when the antenna went straight into the TV. What are the reasons, and should I split the coaxial so that I can use different sources - sometimes TV with antenna, sometimes Tivo? (The picture quality with Tivo is about the same as with satellite and cable.)
Check the signal level screen when the antenna is hooked to the Tivo. It is possible that the signal is actually too strong going into the Tivo and needs to be attenuated. Running the antenna through a splitter would help that at least somewhat.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by momflee View Post
I have been using Mohu Leaf Ultimate antenna plugged directly into TV and the picture quality was unbelievably clear - much clearer than satellite or cable. I wanted to record, so I bought the Tivo Premiere and am plugging antenna coaxial cable into the unit and connect unit with TV with HDMI cable. The disappointment is that although I'm getting my channels ok, the picture quality is not nearly as clear as when the antenna went straight into the TV. What are the reasons, and should I split the coaxial so that I can use different sources - sometimes TV with antenna, sometimes Tivo? (The picture quality with Tivo is about the same as with satellite and cable.)
Check you TV settings for the input the TiVo is connect too. I am not sure what the word clear means to you, but your TiVo should not be doing anything to the OTA signal that degrades the picture quality.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
Check you TV settings for the input the TiVo is connect too. I am not sure what the word clear means to you, but your TiVo should not be doing anything to the OTA signal that degrades the picture quality.
It splits the signal internally so it might be too low of signal strength.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #5
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Mohu Leaf Support says that because Tivo Premiere has two tuners, it is split right from the get-go. Is that what you mean, ShayL?
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:35 PM   #6
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Mohu Leaf Support says that because Tivo Premiere has two tuners, it is split right from the get-go. Is that what you mean, ShayL?
Yes. Check your signal strength through the TiVo.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:46 PM   #7
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Mohu Leaf Support says that because Tivo Premiere has two tuners, it is split right from the get-go. Is that what you mean, ShayL?
Yes that is what it means, but splitting the signal should not degrade the over all quality unless you are right at the point of not having enough signal strength to receive it at all and in that case you would likely see intermittent pixelation/breakups. You can check the signal strength in the settings area to see what you are getting. I don't have any issues with anything above 50-55.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:13 PM   #8
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Two questions
1. What kind of connection are you using to hook up the Tivo to the TV?
2. What is the output resolution of the Tivo set to?
Generally, those are the only two ways to significantly reduce the picture quality. If you are seeing many blocky artifacts, that is a completely different kind of issue. That would be a signal issue and would lead you to check the signal levels above.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:43 PM   #9
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Where do I check output resolution? Tivo to Tv is HDMI cable. Picture is not blocky, and I receive all the channels as with antenna only. The picture quality is just not as clear. OTA to TV was crystal clear - clearer than satellite (with dvr receiver) and with cable (again dvr receiver).
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:19 PM   #10
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Easiest way is to touch the format button on the front of the TiVo and cycle through the various ones. Or, you can go in to settings and verify that you're outputting at 1080i for OTA.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by momflee View Post
I have been using Mohu Leaf Ultimate antenna plugged directly into TV and the picture quality was unbelievably clear - much clearer than satellite or cable. I wanted to record, so I bought the Tivo Premiere and am plugging antenna coaxial cable into the unit and connect unit with TV with HDMI cable. The disappointment is that although I'm getting my channels ok, the picture quality is not nearly as clear as when the antenna went straight into the TV. What are the reasons, and should I split the coaxial so that I can use different sources - sometimes TV with antenna, sometimes Tivo? (The picture quality with Tivo is about the same as with satellite and cable.)
It sounds as if your not watching the program on your TiVo in the original broadcast format. While My TV's and the TiVo's are capable of everything 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p in the display settings I select only 1080i/1080p (TiVo will not upconvert to 1080p)

[TiVo Central] -> [Settings & Messages] -> [Settings] -> [Video] -> [Video Output Format] Select the highest resolution your TV can display and deselect everything below. Upconverted content while not actually any better than the original isn't worse (the possible exception being sports broadcast in 720p). Where as content down converted to a lower format well your telling it to lose, so it's on you.
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:27 PM   #12
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Signal strength is around 60. Display is 1080i. Mohu Support says I may need stronger antenna to offset the degradation because of the internal splitting.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:32 PM   #13
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"Clear"??

This is HDTV- it should look the same on your TV tuner as from the TiVo tuner. If not, there is spmething wrong with your resolution setting. Because otherwise, it has to be the same. It is digital. There is no such thing as picture "degradation". Either you have a perfect picture or you have breakup or you have no picture.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:42 AM   #14
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I would also check all of the video settings for that HDMI input on your TV and compare them to the antenna settings. On my LG flatscreen every input has different settings.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:52 AM   #15
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I would also check all of the video settings for that HDMI input on your TV and compare them to the antenna settings. On my LG flatscreen every input has different settings.
+1 good idea. I have noticed the same thing on TV's where each input has all different settings available and the picture can be shockingly different between them.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #16
momflee
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Cannot find different video settings on TV for different sources. Signal strength on major channels in the 80's. Thanks for your help - I think this is very good quality picture, and I don't want to put in a different antenna.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:52 AM   #17
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On my TV they aren't listed separately in the menus, but changing something on one input only affects that input.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:34 AM   #18
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I don't want to start a war... But, I recall poor picture quality being a major complaint for OTA users, when the Premiere came on the market. Many people were reporting excellent quality if the same coax input was used on their TiVo HD, and poor quality if that same coax was used on the input of their new Premiere. It's my understanding that it's a tuner/chip issue, and the reason why many people still keep their TiVo HDs around (for better OTA quality).

I'll save the people who want to jump all over me the trouble of pointing out just how many settings can be changed/used in both the TiVo and the TV, if the TV has independent settings for each input. The people that swear the Premiere sucks for OTA tried everything, and made sure to use the same HDMI input, as well, since it's been reported that some TVs get better quality using Input 1, less with 2, and even less the higher the HDMI input number.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:45 AM   #19
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I will try moving the Tivo to HDMI1 because it currently is on HDMI2. It partially is the comparison - once you see OTA direct to TV - you realize that what you had previously through cable/satellite DVR's was not on the same level, and you want to maintain that level even though you are going through another receiver - the Tivo premiere. I think what people have said about the signal being split between two tuners makes sense.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:25 AM   #20
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I think what people have said about the signal being split between two tuners makes sense.
Actually those comments are misguided. That would make sense in the analog realm, but not in digital (which all HD OTA is). In the digital world, you either get enough signal for a perfect picture, or you get big blocks of color, followed rapidly (as the signal level declines) by no picture at all. In no case does an inadequate signal result in a "soft" look, or ghosting, or in the various kinds of noise common to analog TV. For those problems, you have to look to either the TV's input-specific settings, the TiVo's output settings, or the connection between the TiVo and the TV. (In the case of HDMI, you're again dealing with a digital signal, so many types of image flaws are ruled out.)

My money is on the TiVo being set to the wrong output resolution, since this can make for a soft-looking image. Assuming that's the issue -- it's not really clear from your description.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:31 AM   #21
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Correct, slightly softer, not as crisp. TIVO output is 1080i.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by momflee View Post
I have been using Mohu Leaf Ultimate antenna plugged directly into TV and the picture quality was unbelievably clear - much clearer than satellite or cable.
I also have the Mohu Leaf Ultimate antenna (the version that is powered by an electrical source) to use with my Tivo Premieres and Tivo HD. Glad there are at least two of us!

My antenna source is plugged into a splitter left by the cable company in my basement. The splitter is powered by electrical source. From there, the outputs go to 3 different tv and Tivos throughout the house.

I, too, think the HD quality is amazing with the antenna. I receive all the local channels great, and the odd sub-channels can occasionally be useful. Most of the time they are SD quality and old re-runs.

I have a few channels that are low power that I receive clearly occasionally but usually receive them with audio cut out every 20 seconds and picture freezes and blocking. I haven't tested any of these channels by connecting the antenna directly to the TV, but I have heard that the Tivo tuner quality is better on the HD than the Premiere.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:59 AM   #23
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I have heard that the Tivo tuner quality is better on the HD than the Premiere.
This is anecdotal, but it appears to me that the HD tuner is more sensitive than the Premiere XL tuner. I have one of each. All this means is that you may have to supply a stronger signal level to achieve sync with a digital TV datastream. However once you do achieve sync, the quality of the video will not be different for the same OTA ATSC signal when you change from one tuner to another.

Think of a TV antenna as having a Boolean function for digital TV. It either captures a strong enough signal with sufficient symbol quality to achieve sync, or it does not. Once you achieve sync the quality of the signal can not get any better.

It is very likely that a better antenna and/or tuner will stop the breakup of video and/or audio observed with a marginal signal, but a better antenna will not make your TV picture sharper and neither will a $60 HDMI cable.

If it works, that's a 1, if it doesn't that's a 0. Binary. Two possible results.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:59 AM   #24
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If it works, that's a 1, if it doesn't that's a 0. Binary. Two possible results.
Is it a 1 or a 0 when I get fluctuating result for low power stations (picture mostly okay; audio cut outs every 20 seconds)?
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:15 PM   #25
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Is it a 1 or a 0 when I get fluctuating result for low power stations (picture mostly okay; audio cut outs every 20 seconds)?
That is a 0

You either get a perfect picture and audio, continuously, or you don't.
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