TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Underground Playground > TiVo Upgrade Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-29-2013, 12:43 PM   #2221
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
4k aligned is relatively easy as the partitions need to start on the correct boundary. If it means anything to the TiVo unit who knows. Has been some debate about it. For it to provide a lot of benefit the OS should be using 4k clusters as well. Otherwise get a small degradation in overall performance.

When comparing "optimized" layout versus "non optimized" layout the only difference I see is the placement of the core partitions (bootstrap, kernel, root, their alternates, swap, and var) in the middle of the disk versus at the beginning of the disk. This is, I suppose, to minimize head travel thus improve performance to some degree. So in a sense, if all that happened was that the extra space at the end of a normal TiVo image was converted to a MFS partition to gain the extra space then it is not optimized based on that definition.
I fully agree with everything you say.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #2222
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
I have not read his latest scare-tactics, good stuff to know, but as you said no way to prove if it has any real meaning, my delete folder is full, I did a quick add of the hours of these programs, than added the non deleted programs and the math was within 5%, of the reported space, both total and what was used on the TiVo, good enough for me as each program may take a difference amount of HD record space. OH, I am using a 2Tb drive upgrade (I made myself) on a TP-4.
It's my understanding that your model (a four-tuner unit), fully supports 4K alignment, in all respects. Did you achieve it, post upgrade? I'd like to have a look at your partition layout, if you have the time.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 01:24 PM   #2223
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
It's my understanding that your model (a four-tuner unit), fully supports 4K alignment, in all respects. Did you achieve it, post upgrade? I'd like to have a look at your partition layout, if you have the time.
I have no idea as I just copied the original 500Tb drive using jmfs Live CD than expanded it, and super sized it, than I back up the full 2Tb drive into a 1.6Tb file using (DvrBARS). Now when I need a 2Tb image for any TP-4 it only takes a few minutes to make. If you tell me what to do to get the partition, I do have a spare 2Tb drive with the AF that I can make a 2Tb TP-4 drive for and check the partition layout. The only program I have that did show the partition layout was the old WinMFS and I don't think it works with the Series 4 disk drives.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 01:31 PM   #2224
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
I have no idea as I just copied the original 500Tb drive using jmfs Live CD than expanded it, and super sized it, than I back up the full 2Tb drive into a 1.6Tb file using (DvrBARS). Now when I need a 2Tb image for any TP-4 it only takes a few minutes to make. If you tell me what to do to get the partition, I do have a spare 2Tb drive that I can make a 2Tb TP-4 drive for and check the partition layout. The only program I have that did show the partition layout was the old WinMFS and I don't think it works with the Series 4 disk drives.
The mfslayout utility is included on some Linux distro Live boot CDs/DVDs. It's on the JMFS distro, and might be on the MFSLive CD. I just don't know how to "pipe" the output to a file, as I'm not very Linux experienced. I *think* Linux fdisk can give some info, as well, but it's VERY dangerous to play with fdisk if you don't know what you're doing, or aren't careful.

The mfslayout and fdisk version, or maybe it's the kernel, of the JMFS distro don't know how to report/display 4K info properly, last I was aware. But, you can always Get the most recent Ulimate Boot/Rescue distro, and then you have a chance of getting correct data reported.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #2225
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 806
The 2TB XL4 unit is 4k Aligned. I will have to get back to you about the 500GB TP4 model but if memory serves, it is 4k Aligned as well.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #2226
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
I have no idea as I just copied the original 500Tb drive using jmfs Live CD than expanded it, and super sized it, than I back up the full 2Tb drive into a 1.6Tb file using (DvrBARS). Now when I need a 2Tb image for any TP-4 it only takes a few minutes to make. If you tell me what to do to get the partition, I do have a spare 2Tb drive with the AF that I can make a 2Tb TP-4 drive for and check the partition layout. The only program I have that did show the partition layout was the old WinMFS and I don't think it works with the Series 4 disk drives.
You could create a virtual device with VBox or any other virtual machine product, load the JMFS iso or MFS live iso in the "Virtual CD Drive" and the vhd of you TiVo image from DvrBARS as the "Virtual hard drive". Start the virtual machine and have it boot off the "Virtual CD Drive" and you can look at or manipulate the TiVo vhd at will.

Sounds harder than it is. It is relatively easy. Would work with a copy of your backup vhd just to be safe.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 03:34 PM   #2227
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,239
Redirecting the output of mfslayout should be a simple matter of adding "> pathtofile" to the command (minus the quotes and where pathtofile is the full path to the file). The more difficult part would be mounting a writable file system other than the TiVo drive, especially if you later want to access the file from Windows or Mac OS.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 05:21 PM   #2228
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
You could create a virtual device with VBox or any other virtual machine product, load the JMFS iso or MFS live iso in the "Virtual CD Drive" and the vhd of you TiVo image from DvrBARS as the "Virtual hard drive". Start the virtual machine and have it boot off the "Virtual CD Drive" and you can look at or manipulate the TiVo vhd at will.

Sounds harder than it is. It is relatively easy. Would work with a copy of your backup vhd just to be safe.
Somehow my last post mysteriously disappeared overnight, but as long as we're on the subject of VMs it should be easy to create another virtual drive and redirect the output of MFSLayout or whatever tool you prefer to it as lpwcomp suggested. With Windows 7 it's easy to create almost any virtual drive that you want and then use it in a virtual machine. That's one of the main reasons I didn't create my own compressed file format for DvrBARS and stuck with a standard that most virtual machine software already knows how to deal with.

P.S. The next time I'm censored without even the courtesy of a PM will be the last time I ever contribute a damn thing. Write your own frelling software and buy your own 100GB Dropbox for the images....
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 05:40 PM   #2229
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,018
jmbach,

The last bit wasn't directed at you, I just wrote everything in one post and didn't consider how it would look.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 05:58 PM   #2230
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Somehow my last post mysteriously disappeared overnight, but as long as we're on the subject of VMs it should be easy to create another virtual drive and redirect the output of MFSLayout or whatever tool you prefer to it as lpwcomp suggested. With Windows 7 it's easy to create almost any virtual drive that you want and then use it in a virtual machine. That's one of the main reasons I didn't create my own compressed file format for DvrBARS and stuck with a standard that most virtual machine software already knows how to deal with.

P.S. The next time I'm censored without even the courtesy of a PM will be the last time I ever contribute a damn thing. Write your own frelling software and buy your own 100GB Dropbox for the images....
What do you mean? The forum moderators wiped out a post of yours on here without saying anything? That's not entirely a shock to me, though.

If that's the case, maybe you should try and keep the image thing more on the DL... There's a reason there's a cleverly named thread on here for people to beg for images. Then a person who has it can send a PM with a link. But, in the past, the person with the image, or the link to get to it would *discretely* PM the info, to the person requesting it. They generally didn't post on any threads "Image sent", or even reference it, except maybe a hint that they should check their PM box, if they kept begging and it was already waiting for them.

I'd wondered if they'd lightened up around here, since people have been asking for images all over the place lately. It used to be if a person did that, they'd get notified (more like warned) to use that one thread.

I had to do a whole cloak-and-dagger dance, a long time back, by getting told to use that thread, then I got a PM, where I had to give an email address, then was emailed a link to a FTP site, along with a password, and asked not to give out the link or password, due to the FTP site winding up getting shut down regularly.

Please don't take out your very understandable frustration on the users of the forum. You have my full support, and I applaud your hard work. I'm sure many others feel the same.

It only takes one person, especially a forum operator, or moderator, that opposes image trading or gifting, that's either paranoid that TiVo will shutter this site with a lawsuit over TiVo's intellectual property, or doesn't condone the practice to shut you down. The forum sponsors can't be very happy with your work and free image trading, though...

Personally, I'd love for a new, better forum to come into play, and turn this place into the ghost town that MySpace turned into after Facebook came along. But, it takes money to provide this, and your excellent work is a threat to the sponsors of this forum, who profit when people want or need to re-image and/or upgrade their TiVo.

I'd be much more vocal, and blunt about how I feel about the way this place is run, and who gets to pull the strings, but I don't want to find myself banned, the next time I come to check the forum...
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 06:06 PM   #2231
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Redirecting the output of mfslayout should be a simple matter of adding "> pathtofile" to the command (minus the quotes and where pathtofile is the full path to the file). The more difficult part would be mounting a writable file system other than the TiVo drive, especially if you later want to access the file from Windows or Mac OS.
Yeah, the ">" was what I thought, but I didn't know for certain where the output file would go. With the JMFS distro, I believe it just got wrote into a built-in ram-disk, but that distro's tools/kernel weren't made to deal specifically with 4K sectors. I wonder how hard it would be to just update the JMFS Live distro to display accurate data...
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 06:46 PM   #2232
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
P.S. The next time I'm censored without even the courtesy of a PM will be the last time I ever contribute a damn thing. Write your own frelling software and buy your own 100GB Dropbox for the images...
Do you know which mod removed it and have any idea why it was done? While there are certain topics that are "forbidden" on the TCF, I've never heard of a post being removed simply for discussing image sharing, which goes on all of the time. There's an entire thread pretty much devoted to it.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 07:13 PM   #2233
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Yeah, the ">" was what I thought, but I didn't know for certain where the output file would go. With the JMFS distro, I believe it just got wrote into a built-in ram-disk, but that distro's tools/kernel weren't made to deal specifically with 4K sectors. I wonder how hard it would be to just update the JMFS Live distro to display accurate data...
Just to clarify something. At this time the XL4 2TB drive is 4k aligned but still uses 512mb sector addressing in the partition tables. Now JMFS will add an aligned partition if the last partition ends on the right boundary so the new partition will start the correct 4k boundary. WinMFS does the same for non premiere Tivos. When TiVo transitions to drives over 2TB, then they will have to use 4k blocks. At that time JMFS will have to be re written. Or if we support some of our excellent programmer(s), we could get a program that not only backs up and restrores premiere Tivos and beyond but also gives us a truly optimized expanded image. :thumbup::thumbup:
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 07:50 PM   #2234
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
Just to clarify something. At this time the XL4 2TB drive is 4k aligned but still uses 512mb sector addressing in the partition tables. Now JMFS will add an aligned partition if the last partition ends on the right boundary so the new partition will start the correct 4k boundary. WinMFS does the same for non premiere Tivos. When TiVo transitions to drives over 2TB, then they will have to use 4k blocks. At that time JMFS will have to be re written. Or if we support some of our excellent programmer(s), we could get a program that not only backs up and restrores premiere Tivos and beyond but also gives us a truly optimized expanded image. :thumbup::thumbup:
That's a good reflection of what I've been thinking: You just put it in a concise and understandable way.

If it comes down to it, those who want these tools need to show their support and commitment, help in any way they can, and if need be, chip in some financial aid towards a project, that may have to distance itself from forums sponsored by those who would rather SELL it to us and advertise it on the banner ads we're forbidden to even block, which, in turn, funds this place.

It's been done before, but over at the forum that dabbles in the areas we're prohibited from discussing here, or even providing links to from here.

LONG LIVE FREE TOOLS FOR TIVO OWNERS TO REPAIR/RESTORE/UPGRADE/BACKUP THE EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR THE PRIVELEGE OF OWNING AND USING!!! DOWN WITH THE TYRANTS AND PROFITEERS THAT WANT TO FORCE THEM TO PAY FOR IT!!!

Yeah, that's a bit over the top... But, if those who work so hard to provide the tools are going to get censored here, what choice is there? Just give up, bend-over and take it for doing it for free, and giving it to us for free? I don't think so. That's just wrong.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 08:20 PM   #2235
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Do you know which mod removed it and have any idea why it was done? While there are certain topics that are "forbidden" on the TCF, I've never heard of a post being removed simply for discussing image sharing, which goes on all of the time. There's an entire thread pretty much devoted to it.
This one wasn't even about images, just my personal opinions about 4K partition aliagnment or lack thereof.

I ran DvrBARS past TiVo and they had no issues with it (while obviously not being able to endorse it). Big brother isn't the problem.

I tried to get them to approve posting the links to the images but you can probably guess where that went. They haven't said no, but I think it's best to keep it on a PM basis for now. I'm checking in here several times a day and monitoring most of the sub-forums.

I have no idea where that post went. It was slightly in opposition to some other people's opinions re AF drives but I was clear that it was only my own WAG. It was still there yesterday afternoon but today it's gone. I'm typing with my left hand and a straw in my mouth at the moment, and it really ticked me off.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #2236
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
You could create a virtual device with VBox or any other virtual machine product, load the JMFS iso or MFS live iso in the "Virtual CD Drive" and the vhd of you TiVo image from DvrBARS as the "Virtual hard drive". Start the virtual machine and have it boot off the "Virtual CD Drive" and you can look at or manipulate the TiVo vhd at will.

Sounds harder than it is. It is relatively easy. Would work with a copy of your backup vhd just to be safe.
I do my TiVo work on an old HP P4 computer in the cellar with XP on it, I once tried the VD and got it to work, but now I do use MS version of the XP VD on my windows 7 to run some old 16 bit programs, an old (from the 80s Db Master) data base and my alarm control. If you want the image to play with just PM me.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:17 PM   #2237
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
I have no idea where that post went. It was slightly in opposition to some other people's opinions re AF drives but I was clear that it was only my own WAG. It was still there yesterday afternoon but today it's gone. I'm typing with my left hand and a straw in my mouth at the moment, and it really ticked me off.
I was hoping I had at least part of the post in a notification e-mail to jog my memory but no joy as I cycled Thunderbird yesterday just after Noon, which emptied the trash. I certainly don't recall reading a post by you that would merit deletion.

As far as posting the links to image d/l sites is concerned, it may just be a case of keeping things on the "downlow" to make it less likely that TiVo will take "official notice" and also maybe make it less likely that some of the advertisers would consider withdrawing their ads, but who knows?. I certainly don't think it has anything to do with kowtowing to TiVo, Inc. requests or being cowed by threats from external sources.
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:18 PM   #2238
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
This one wasn't even about images, just my personal opinions about 4K partition aliagnment or lack thereof.

I ran DvrBARS past TiVo and they had no issues with it (while obviously not being able to endorse it). Big brother isn't the problem.

I tried to get them to approve posting the links to the images but you can probably guess where that went. They haven't said no, but I think it's best to keep it on a PM basis for now. I'm checking in here several times a day and monitoring most of the sub-forums.

I have no idea where that post went. It was slightly in opposition to some other people's opinions re AF drives but I was clear that it was only my own WAG. It was still there yesterday afternoon but today it's gone. I'm typing with my left hand and a straw in my mouth at the moment, and it really ticked me off.
Perhaps the sponsors don't want people finding out that their pre-imaged drop-in upgrades might not be what they make them out to be, when it comes to the 4K matter... I partially blame Western Digital (and anybody else), who says Windows XP is the only platform that requires alignment, without disclosing the extra wear and tear that unaligned disk read/write cycles cause when not 4K aligned. The performance hit is no secret to users, but they don't advertise/advise on that either...

I'd suggest you be cautious with Big Brother (TiVo). They could just be trying to get as much info as they can, to pass along to their legal team.

I've had one pretty high ranking person at TiVo say something was fine, then as soon as a repeated it I got whammied by somebody higher.

I'm not saying to become paranoid, just be aware that what can often seem as good-faith discussion, can sometimes just be data-mining. The more they know about your work, the easier it is for them to use what you've given them against you, or take from you to present as their own work.

While TiVo has been allowing people to self-upgrade, without their approved means and equipment, allowing people like Weeknees/DVRUpgrade/DVR_DUDE/Comer to do what they do, they COULD change their minds.

The more they know about how your software works, the easier they could blacklist it/come up with countermeasures, or basically steal your work and sell it as their own.

It took somebody else making their own remote season pass manager to get them to make their own.

You also have to consider that while TiVo isn't required to provide any support to anybody who opens their TiVo up and changes anything, it doesn't stop people who have from calling in and demanding support.

There's no doubt in my mind that they are weighing the pros and cons of letting you innovate, while most of what they do is litigate.

Just be careful, for your sake. There still is the fact that if your tools become as robust, useful, and easy as many envision in the future, you're a direct threat to the primary sponsors of these forums.

Best of luck. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I have a lot of TiVos, a lot of computers, and a lot of time. I just wish I was more familiar with Linux, and the Tivoized version of it,
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 09:38 PM   #2239
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,239
I think it likely that at least weaKnees/DVRUpgrade pays TiVo for the right to distribute the s/w. This is based on the fact that there used to be a user maintained site that hosted most if not all of the then existent images which was shut down due to threats of legal action by TiVo. Meanwhile, DVRUpgrade was selling InstantCake with nary a peep from TiVo. And both weaKnees and DVRUpgrade (they were still separate at that time) were selling pre-imaged drive. It wouldn't surprise me at all if dvr_dude has a similar arrangement,
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 10:01 PM   #2240
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I think it likely that at least weaKnees/DVRUpgrade pays TiVo for the right to distribute the s/w. This is based on the fact that there used to be a user maintained site that hosted most if not all of the then existent images which was shut down due to threats of legal action by TiVo. Meanwhile, DVRUpgrade was selling InstantCake with nary a peep from TiVo. And both weaKnees and DVRUpgrade (they were still separate at that time) were selling pre-imaged drive. It wouldn't surprise me at all if dvr_dude has a similar arrangement,
That's all very logical and makes sense. I also have a hunch that TiVo never hassled Comer, as if I recall correctly, he's in Canada.

I used to have access to the site you mention as well (or one that was as you describe), and recall it being shut down a few times, before whoever was reviving/mirroring it, playing invite only, password protected, catch me if you can, under multiple ftp site URL changes, ceased hosting it. I still have all the content that was on there.

I seem to recall that horrible piece of work known as InstantCake, claiming to be licensed by TiVo for distribution. I find that CD works good for shimming up a wobbly workbench now (but was the ONLY source for a DIY image at the time, and got the job done on the old models, before drives reached 1TB capacity, which it couldn't handle). It sure wasn't cheap, either, especially considering the TiVo user would technically be paying to get the same software that they already paid licensing to use before their TiVo hard drive died on them...

Now, in the present, if these DIY drive upgrade suppliers are paying licensing fees to TiVo, while the mere use of these upgrades absolves TiVo of providing support to the end-user, something stinks...

Last edited by nooneuknow : 05-29-2013 at 10:16 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 10:25 PM   #2241
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 806
Just checked a 750500 image and it is also 4k aligned. So it appears all the 4 tuner premieres are 4k aligned. FWIW. The partition tables are still using 512mb blocks. If someone was real adventurous, they could dissect the ext partitions to see if they use 4k clusters. If they do, then it would imply that being 4k aligned has more meaning.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 10:34 PM   #2242
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
I have no idea where that post went. It was slightly in opposition to some other people's opinions re AF drives but I was clear that it was only my own WAG. It was still there yesterday afternoon but today it's gone. I'm typing with my left hand and a straw in my mouth at the moment, and it really ticked me off.
I never pressed the triangle with the exclamation point on a post so I do not know what carnage ensues once someone does press it. Wonder if someone accidentally pressed it and the post got deleted. I guess I could make a post and try it. Afraid someone might come to my house and confiscate my computer if I do.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:37 PM   #2243
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
Just checked a 750500 image and it is also 4k aligned. So it appears all the 4 tuner premieres are 4k aligned. FWIW. The partition tables are still using 512mb blocks. If someone was real adventurous, they could dissect the ext partitions to see if they use 4k clusters. If they do, then it would imply that being 4k aligned has more meaning.
This is as I have been suspecting... 2-tuner: no alignment (unsure if a software update can align), 4-tuner: factory aligned (possibly, or capable with a software update).

For those with the time to play around:

1. Make sure your TiVo has 2 hours, that it won't be busy.

2. From LiveTV mode: Press 911, then rapidly hit clear (so channel doesn't actually change).

3. Reboot, do a kickstart 52 (emergency software reinstall).

4. As soon as you can get back to LiveTV, repeat the 911-clear.

5. Go to System Information screen: Press Clear, Clear, Enter, Enter, Zero.

6. View the system logs (I suggest not messing with the other items in the backdoor screen), using the right arrow to change through the logs, Up & down to scroll, and look for the 911 markers in the logs.

7. When you find the log with loads of info about the filesystem, find the top 911 marker, and you'll get your drive model, capabilities, modes, drive state, sector size, clusters/blocks.

8. Scroll through until you've reviewed to the second 911-clear marker, and take notes of anything you feel is relevant.

9. Report back here with your model, number of tuners, model and capacity of drive, and what the file system is/isn't doing.

I think this is where we prove what's going on with what in the 512/4K/alignment matter, and there may be some competing theories as to what the future may or may not bring (like 4K alignment).

The KS 52 does a full assessment of the drive and the file system, before copying the current software to the alternate partition. It's also far less likely to brick your unit than a KS 57 or 58, if (when) repairs and cleanup operations are performed on the file system.

* All 911-clear does is put a one-line marker stamp in the logs, so you can find what you're looking for faster/easier

Last edited by nooneuknow : 05-29-2013 at 11:50 PM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:52 PM   #2244
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,239
I thought KS 52 was "Emergency Software Reinstall".
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 12:00 AM   #2245
retiredqwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 156
How to download screens using the jmfs software.

How to download screens using the jmfs software.
1. Have a HPFS or FAT disk attached together with your Tivo disk. Harddrive or USB.
2. Boot jmfs
3. Exit to shell (x)
4. Run fdisk -l. Check the HPFS/FAT partition names, it has to have a number after disk name, like:
Code:
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1      194522  1562497933+  HPFS
5. Create directory: mkdir mydisk
6. Mount the partition on which you want to copy the log (akin to "assign drive letter" in Windows). If it is HPFS, then you need to specify the driver to use (the default one is read-only). No need to do it for FAT. For HPFS: mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/<partiton name> mydisk (for example: "mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 mydisk")
For FAT: mount /dev/<partiton name> mydisk (for example: "mount /dev/sda1 mydisk")
6. Run "/root/mfslayout.sh /dev/<partition name>" and see if you get the correct output on the screen. If so, then run "/root/mfslayout.sh /dev/<partition name> > filename" of your choosing. This pipes the screen output to that file. Then run "cp filename mydisk/" (it will copy the log to the root directory of the given partition).
7. Unmount partition (just a precaution, so all the buffers are flushed and file system is clean): umount mydisk
__________________
I'm not retired... I'm a professional grandparent.

THD 1.5TB Seagate = 237 hrs HD
Premiere WD20EVDS = 317 hrs HD.
XL4 = 318 hrs HD

Last edited by retiredqwest : 05-30-2013 at 12:02 AM. Reason: typo
retiredqwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 12:08 AM   #2246
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
I thought KS 52 was "Emergency Software Reinstall".
It is, but it runs VERY thorough file system checks, has NEVER nuked a TiVo (like a 57 or 58 has done to me from time to time), and logs more data than the other two combined.

Think about it: The last thing TiVo wants is to nuke a unit into the GSOD reboot loop when sending out updates, so It checks, cleans, and defrags the file system of the alternate software partition FIRST, and logs more data, just in case an update does nuke a unit.

One bit of misinformation I've seen floating around here from time to time, is that KS52 installs the previous software version - absolutely false.

I found the "extreme logging" that happens on a software install/re-install by accident.

I did update my post, figuring that if I didn't specify what KS52 was, questions would pop up.

The only danger, is if there's an unidentified bad sector on the alternate partition, but that would hit you on the next software update anyway, since every update switches to the other of the two partitions. If that worries anybody, then run the full battery of SMART tests first (under KS54).
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 01:02 AM   #2247
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredqwest View Post
How to download screens using the jmfs software.
1. Have a HPFS or FAT disk attached together with your Tivo disk. Harddrive or USB.
2. Boot jmfs
3. Exit to shell (x)
4. Run fdisk -l. Check the HPFS/FAT partition names, it has to have a number after disk name, like:
Code:
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1      194522  1562497933+  HPFS
5. Create directory: mkdir mydisk
6. Mount the partition on which you want to copy the log (akin to "assign drive letter" in Windows). If it is HPFS, then you need to specify the driver to use (the default one is read-only). No need to do it for FAT. For HPFS: mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/<partiton name> mydisk (for example: "mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 mydisk")
For FAT: mount /dev/<partiton name> mydisk (for example: "mount /dev/sda1 mydisk")
6. Run "/root/mfslayout.sh /dev/<partition name>" and see if you get the correct output on the screen. If so, then run "/root/mfslayout.sh /dev/<partition name> > filename" of your choosing. This pipes the screen output to that file. Then run "cp filename mydisk/" (it will copy the log to the root directory of the given partition).
7. Unmount partition (just a precaution, so all the buffers are flushed and file system is clean): umount mydisk
You might want to make it clear that <partition name> in the second step 6 (you have 2) refers to the TiVo drive and is not the same as <partition name> in the first step 6. Actually, shouldn't it be a device (ex.: /dev/sdb) rather than a partition in the second step 6?

Minor, somewhat geeky correction: You are not "piping" the output, you are re-directing it.

On a lighter note, anyone ever see the mfslayouts in concert?
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 08:14 AM   #2248
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
The more they know about how your software works, the easier they could blacklist it/come up with countermeasures, or basically steal your work and sell it as their own.
I doubt that they need MFS lessons from me.

Que Sera, Sera. Now back to our regularly-scheduled thread.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 08:45 AM   #2249
Leon WIlkinson
TiVo Gone Wild
 
Leon WIlkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: TiVo Town
Posts: 1,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
At least one brand of motherboard, GigaByte
Dang this

I just bought HP ENVY H8-1450 Desktop which as a Gigabyte card. So is this mostly a single or small amount of Mother Boards or is it all known Gigabyte boards?
__________________
After 20 attempts, I can do almost anything? ;)
Leon WIlkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 09:21 AM   #2250
Leon WIlkinson
TiVo Gone Wild
 
Leon WIlkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: TiVo Town
Posts: 1,271
I feel better now with a bit more research. will need to look into bios and check sata position of drives, I wondering if putting the caching SSD in sata0/1 would be ok.
__________________
After 20 attempts, I can do almost anything? ;)
Leon WIlkinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |