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Old 05-09-2013, 12:10 PM   #1
kumaaz99
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Program Data Will Run Out

I reviewed all the posts on this subject and they're pretty old.
Is anyone still dealing with this issue?
When I spoke to support today, they said noone else is having this problem.
=============
Series 3 - connects sucessfully every day - cox cable w/TA
Got the message "program data will run out......"
I didn't believe it because I could see data way past that date.
After that date, the data was only there when looking at the directory on live tv. Search function wouldn't show anything.
Repeated the complete guided setup and message went away for a few weeks then came back.
Went in and reset the zip code (only takes a few hours to download instead of all day with new guided setup) and message went away for a few days. Now it's back again.
TIVO says to connect to the service twice in a row then restart so I'll give that a try.
The tech says noone else is calling with this problem so if others are maybe we should start calling and calling.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #2
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See this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=503291
If you're using a TA, the solution will probably be to disconnect it (power down or disconnect USB cable) for 3 or 4 hours. Some users have put their TA's on lamp timers that power them down for 4 hours every night.

I couldn't believe a search wouldn't find this and other relevant threads so I tried searching, and indeed it is very difficult to find.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #3
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Check the GC date in the System Information section. If it is more than a couple of days old I would go with putting the TA on a timer. I do and it works fine. This is assuming you are using a TA.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:16 PM   #4
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A GC date even 3 days old isn't a problem AFAIK. The "running out" message appears when the GC date is a week old, on my TiVo HD.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
A GC date even 3 days old isn't a problem AFAIK. The "running out" message appears when the GC date is a week old, on my TiVo HD.
Actually, my GC was about 2 weeks old when I was having the problem. What I meant is that if it is more than a couple of days old it is indicative that the problem is there.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312 View Post
Actually, my GC was about 2 weeks old when I was having the problem. What I meant is that if it is more than a couple of days old it is indicative that the problem is there.
I understand, but is there evidence that a 3-day old GC reallly indicates a problem? That may be within normal bounds.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:49 PM   #7
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Program data

Thanks for the tips. This time a connection and a restart solved the issue but I'm sure it will be back. I'll check the GC date and next time I'll power off the TA and reconnect to see if that works. It's hard to believe it's a TA problem but one never knows.
Has anyone had this issue who does not use a Tuning Adapter???
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:00 PM   #8
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If you ever have time to kill, read through this thread. I think you will see it is a TA problem. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=472857

I power off my TA every night for 4 hours and GC is never more than 2 days old.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:06 PM   #9
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Some have posted that if you keep forcing GC by restarting the TiVo, you eventually get even worse problems, e.g., the "S03" error.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
Some have posted that if you keep forcing GC by restarting the TiVo, you eventually get even worse problems, e.g., the "S03" error.
That was the start of my problems.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:59 PM   #11
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Program data running out

Well the message came back again in a week. I looked at the old posts and tried resettng the TA but that did nothing. Talked to Tivo AGAIN and they say they never heard of the issue. They had me reboot and that cleared the message so they had the nerve to tell me to reboot every week. I sent an email on the problem and I'll post their response for what that will be worth.
We still need to know:
Does everyone with this problem have a tuning adapter?
Does everyone with this problem still have the original hard disk?
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumaaz99 View Post
Well the message came back again in a week. I looked at the old posts and tried resettng the TA but that did nothing. Talked to Tivo AGAIN and they say they never heard of the issue. They had me reboot and that cleared the message so they had the nerve to tell me to reboot every week. I sent an email on the problem and I'll post their response for what that will be worth.
We still need to know:
Does everyone with this problem have a tuning adapter?
Does everyone with this problem still have the original hard disk?
I think very few people have this problem. We are the lucky ones.

There have been a couple of cases of this happening with the original drive, but most are upgraded drives.

Not sure what you mean by "resetting the TA". What you have to do is to pull the plug and leave it off for many hours. The first time may take 12+ hours. After you have a good GC it takes less time. As I said above, my power is off for 4 hours each night and my GC keeps updating every other day or so.

You don't want to power down when you are going to be recording because each off and on sequence interrupts any recordings happening at the time.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #13
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For the usual Cisco TA setup (i.e., the cable signal passes through the TA on its way to the TiVo) if you "pull the plug" (by which I assume you mean power the TA down) you lose ALL cable signals. You can just disconnect the USB cable for several hours. Then you at least can watch the channels that aren't SDV.

BTW the no-GC problem has stopped occurring for me for the last several weeks. I can't correlate this behavior with any factor -- have to suspect it's related to signals from Tivo's servers. I went for 3+ years without this problem before it cropped up earlier this year, and I haven't changed anything in my setup over all that time except to swap in a single m-card for two s-cards, last July.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
For the usual Cisco TA setup (i.e., the cable signal passes through the TA on its way to the TiVo) if you "pull the plug" (by which I assume you mean power the TA down) you lose ALL cable signals. You can just disconnect the USB cable for several hours. Then you at least can watch the channels that aren't SDV. ....
True. I don't do it this way - I have a splitter and one cable goes to the TA and the other to the Tivo, so powering down only affects SDV channels for me.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:58 AM   #15
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I had the same issue, but found an alternative way to recover - at least it worked for me. It was a long time ago, but I think what happened was that I had replaced the TiVo drive with a larger one and noticed that the problem went away for a while, then came back. I started wondering if the disk being full (of deleted programs) had something to do with it. So I tried manually deleting all of the deleted programs, rebooted the TiVo and TA, and then occasionally deleted the deleted programs again to make sure the disk would never fill. Sure enough, I didn't have the problem any more.

Permanently deleting already-deleted programs is NOT fun and not what you want to do on a long-term basis. I was originally thinking that if this worked, I might break into the Unix OS and put in some kind of cron job to periodically delete deleted program older than some threshold. But by that time I'd heard about the timer trick and adopted that instead. Only problem with that is, I tend to record a lot of old-time movies and series that only show up in the wee hours, so I have to be careful.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:38 AM   #16
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Return of Data Running Out

Well this issue is back again. I guess it's been about a year since I did restart and clean out of everything. Since then I've been peranently deleting all the deleted files so that's not a long term fix.
Has anyone found a new answer for this problm yet?
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Old 10-05-2014, 12:54 PM   #17
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After force connecting to TiVo I restarted the TiVo and all went back to normal.. This happen on both of my premiere's..
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Old 10-05-2014, 03:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumaaz99 View Post
Well this issue is back again. I guess it's been about a year since I did restart and clean out of everything. Since then I've been peranently deleting all the deleted files so that's not a long term fix.
Has anyone found a new answer for this problm yet?
Not as far as I know. Either disconnect the USB cable for a few hours or use a lamp timer to power off the TA for a few hours.

What causes this is a real mystery although I don't think there are any reports of it happening with the original size hard drives delivered in the TiVo.
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:09 PM   #19
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Often, simply depriving the TiVo from having a video signal input (coax connection) frees up enough resources to allow GC to occur.

If you have a TA, disconnecting the coax that goes into the TiVo, plus unplugging the USB link between the TiVo & TA, should do the trick for many.

One needs to remember that as long as a TiVo has a signal, the TiVo will be buffering all tuners, all the time, and that takes a lot of resources.

I also recommend disconnecting the TiVo from having access to the internet, so no new data can be introduced, until the old data has been cleaned.

This is not a long-term fix, but a per-incident approach. I have more data, and more steps to use, in order to not lose your recordings with a C&DE (the last resort measure). But, I'm tired of reposting so much data, and am busy with things I must get done right now.
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumaaz99 View Post
Well this issue is back again. I guess it's been about a year since I did restart and clean out of everything. Since then I've been permanently deleting all the deleted files so that's not a long term fix.
Has anyone found a new answer for this problm yet?
Go into Account and System Information screen and check the GC date, and also check to see if the Last Connection Succeeded or Failed Error S03.

Your GC should only go back one or two days, but if yours is 3 or 4 days old then it's stuck. If it's a week or two out of date then that will cause your Guide to run out soon and can give you the S03 Error.

About a month ago my S3 was suddenly running out of Guide Data, and my GC was a week out of date!! I was also getting the dreaded "Connection Failed - Error S03" on both automatic daily connections and forced Connections.

I read several threads here and ultimately disconnected my TA completely and also disconnected my Network cable and let it sit overnight, then the next morning i checked my GC and it had finally updated to the current day. I then forced a connection and it was successful for the first time in a week, and soon i had 12 days of guide data. Try it.

Currently i'm monitoring my GC daily and most of the time it's updating normally within a few days and my connections have been successful. Twice in the past few weeks my GC got stuck at 3 and 4 days, so both times i just turned the TA OFF with the front panel button (left it connected) and kept checking my GC for the next few hours. One time the GC updated within 1 hour and 22 minutes, and the other time it updated after 1 hour 47 minutes.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:47 AM   #21
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Before doing any other more drastic measures just posted, try just disconnecting the USB for up to 4 hours. (It may only take 20 minutes or so -- monitor the GC date to see when it updates.) This works for me and there's no sense suffering all the other hassle if this relatively simple thing works. On my TiVo HD setup, with no splitter separating TA and TiVo inputs, I still can watch the non-SDV channels while the USB is disconnected.

I've only had this happen oh maybe once a year or so, but if it was happening more often I would put my TA on a lamp timer.
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:19 PM   #22
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GC Date - TA & Network

It's been fine for a week now but I'll start watching the GC Date although I still can't understand it being a TA issue. But since noone responded that they have the issue without a TA that must be it.
The GC on the one haveing the issue is 2 days before the last download.
The GC on the 2nd one with no issue yet is the same day as the download.
Both os these were activated at the same time.
Another possibility though may be the network signal. One time when I called Tivo the tech mentioned something about a download issue. I ignored this because the download always shows completed sucessfully. I wonder about this because my wireless network connection always shows 45-50% (marginal) but, as I said downloads and transfers between the 2 units fine.
If anyone without a TA have the problem then I would use a temp hardwire network connection for awhile to check it out. Bur then the signal on the 2nd one without the issue runs only around 40% (marginal).
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Old 10-14-2014, 02:31 AM   #23
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I would like for those stating "drastic", to please specify/define "drastic" measures.

The GC issue existed before TAs came into the picture. They just pretty much insured you'd have problems, if you didn't, or made them even worse, if you already did.

I speak from experience with TiVo HDs & 2-tuner Premieres, before TAs rolled here. What will make it happen, without the help of a TA to make it happen, is keeping your TiVo VERY busy. If your ToDoList shows day after day, after day, of scheduled recordings, and there isn't at least a 4 hour gap, here and there (longer is better), you don't need a TA to have the end-result, of your TiVo having too many resources tied-up, to devote them to GC, and complete it before those resources are taxed.

What you don't see, is how often your TiVo begins GC, only to abort it, to free the resources for other things. Recordings take the highest priority, followed by Live TV buffering (even when not watching). All you get to see is when GC manages to complete.

When I had the older models, and didn't yet have TAs, I made use of two things that can really free up resources, and are not "extreme".

1. Make use of standby mode when not actually using a TiVo for viewing. This works by shutting down processing of all AV out, freeing resources.

2. Set up a SP for a minimum-length repeat manual daily repeating recording, on a channel that has no signal (no strength or SNR in DVR Diags, this is absolutely critical), per tuner. Use a different channel for each tuner. Set the manual repeats, with overlapping times, which will show up as SPs, to record no-signal channels, making sure you keep moving them to the bottom of the list, as you add new SPs later, and watch for conflicts that won't allow the repeat recordings to change the channels on all tuners (delete the manual recordings, and recreate again, for a new start time, if need be). Since no signal will be present, the recordings will attempt, abort, and you will see no trace of any such recordings, other than in history. After the abort, the tuners will remain parked on the no-signal channels, stopping the Live TV buffering (nothing to buffer, if there is no signal), until the next ToDoList entry.

Combine both of these two practices together, and you might even make it work with a TA, with all the freed resources. KMTTG has a function to park tuners in it's swiss army knife, for TiVo, features. It can only do 2 tuners, which is what you need anyway. It's called "tuner parking".

With TAs & TiVo Premieres, it's harder to make the tuner-parking work, as TiVo has tried to fix mis-tunes to valid channels, making it a bit harder.

I had luck, post TA, with setting the HDs and Premieres as being both Cable & OTA (repeating GS required). I then placed a terminator cap over the OTA coax nipple, to insure no trace of an OTA signal could get in (overkill), and set my no-signal SPs to OTA channels. It is important to only check enough OTA channels in the lineup, to give each tuner a channel. Once the manual repeat SP is set, you can uncheck the channels, and they will still record. I only advise this method for last-resort, before adding lamp timers, since the added OTA channels are added overhead (but still less than Live TV buffering on all tuners).
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:43 AM   #24
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I would like for those stating "drastic", to please specify/define "drastic" measures.

The GC issue existed before TAs came into the picture. They just pretty much insured you'd have problems, if you didn't, or made them even worse, if you already did.
The GC issue has apparently even on the old Series 2 before TAs were even invented, but there's no doubt in my mind that the TA is yet one more cause of it happening.

Having searched for and reading several threads on the Error S03 problem when my Series 3 started getting this error out of nowhere several weeks ago, I would define "Drastic Measures" to be (A.) Clearing and Deleting Everything, (B.) Replace the Hard Drive, and maybe even (C.) Re-Running Guided Setup (which some have reported throwing their Tivo into an un-recoverable boot loop).

I'm so glad i read through those threads in their entirety before taking any of the above drastic measures as i would have wiped out my Season Passes at least, or lost all my recordings, or even bricked my Tivo. It turned out that i was able to get my stuck GC to update and clear my S03 Error by simply disconnecting the power and USB cables on my TA for a few hours. Then later i discovered i could un-stick my GC by turing off the power button on the front of my TA.

Your posts in those various threads were very helpful in getting me to understand why my GC had becomd stuck.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:22 PM   #25
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The GC issue has apparently even on the old Series 2 before TAs were even invented, but there's no doubt in my mind that the TA is yet one more cause of it happening.

Having searched for and reading several threads on the Error S03 problem when my Series 3 started getting this error out of nowhere several weeks ago, I would define "Drastic Measures" to be (A.) Clearing and Deleting Everything, (B.) Replace the Hard Drive, and maybe even (C.) Re-Running Guided Setup (which some have reported throwing their Tivo into an un-recoverable boot loop).

I'm so glad i read through those threads in their entirety before taking any of the above drastic measures as i would have wiped out my Season Passes at least, or lost all my recordings, or even bricked my Tivo. It turned out that i was able to get my stuck GC to update and clear my S03 Error by simply disconnecting the power and USB cables on my TA for a few hours. Then later i discovered i could un-stick my GC by turing off the power button on the front of my TA.

Your posts in those various threads were very helpful in getting me to understand why my GC had becomd stuck.
Yeah, I was never trying to sound like I was saying having a TA, alone, couldn't cause the GC issue to happen, even if never affected by it before adding a TA.

One thing I have found, with Roamios, is that any method involving lamp timers, or otherwise disrupting the TA operational state, can cause the TA to come back online in a state of not being operational, or not fully operational. I don't need any of this to handle GC issues, since the Roamios tend to be fairly immune to them, or at least the three of mine are. Others have reported the same. I have to sometimes power-cycle, due to a TA malfunction, or an issue between the TA and TiVo, requiring a TA cycle.

Often, I must disconnect the USB link, before power-cycling the TA, or have it come online in an improper state. It happens far to often for me, to automate the power-cycling of the TA to be interaction/babysitting free.

I have given up on the button, myself. It's not a power button, but merely a way to disable TA control of things (TA standby mode), meaning that if a power-cycle and reboot of the TA are needed, the button won't provide either. Simply allowing the cablecard to resume control, using the TA button, then switching control back to the TA, has worked a few times for me. But, very few times, and often leading to needing a cycle/reboot done, not much longer after all seems fine again. There are times when I'd rather use the button, and wait until a better time to do a true TA reboot/cycle.

My very own accidental (out of boredom) discovery of the 00000 Zip code & Tiny TiVo lineup, for GS, has been a cure for many ailments, even if sometimes only a temporary reprieve. Using it will help avoid GS loops, if used as the first run of GS, and GC is allowed to complete on the gutted, minimalist, guide data it downloads, as long as GC is given time to complete. The GC-enabling/assisting methods I already posted here will speed that up. Also, most TiVo software, post shipping versions (Roamio, any version) will have the (press enter for) "Installer Express" option (on the second screen of GS), leaning things down more, speeding up completion of GS and GC, and speeding through the process, making the time required for the double GS repeat, minimal.

It's also worth making sure I mention that rebooting a TiVo, does not reboot the TA. The flashing light on them, while rebooting the TiVo, is merely the TA saying it has lost USB sync/communication with the TiVo (not an indication the TA is rebooting, which has a different flashing, and takes longer than a Roamio does, to reboot).

It seems like every time I start thinking of abandoning my support/solution-providing activities on TCF, somebody throws me a mention I helped them (or tells others I have been of help), or simply gives their thanks to me. Good timing. I wish you the best of luck in the future.
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:44 AM   #26
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IMO anything beyond disconnecting the USB for a while is "drastic", since that has always worked for me on my TiVo HD. My point of posting about this is that anyone encountering the program-data-will-run-out message for the first time should try this relatively simple solution first.

The blink sequence for the STA1520 when USB communication is not present is 6-blinks-pause.

It's long been apparent that you can't count on the front button to do anything -- you have to power cycle.

I routinely restart the TiVo whenever I power-cycle the TA, as it usually is necessary to recover proper overall operation with a valid channel mapping.
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