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Old 05-11-2013, 09:22 PM   #1
astrohip
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Orphan Black 5/11/13 "Parts Developed in an Unusual Manner"

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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
I'm out of town in a place that doesn't get BBCA, so I won't be seeing the 5/11 episode until I get home Sunday night.

Which means somebody else is going to have to start the thread!
Here ya' go...

Another excellent episode.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:59 AM   #2
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Crazy blonde clone, pulls it off..

So I guess I was wrong about Mrs. S (? the lady watching the daughter) being an observer (Fringe?)

The bad guys cult/club I find a little wierd. Techno/ravers/modder villians isn't scaring me too much.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:17 AM   #3
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The bad guys cult/club I find a little wierd. Techno/ravers/modder villians isn't scaring me too much.
They don't seem very tough. I was surprised Paul let himself be taken. Before he told Sarah to run, he should have been ready to fight (including knowing where everyone in the room is and what weapons they have, having a weapon himself, etc.). Also, Sarah was stupid the way she let herself be taken. She should have gone in with a gun and been prepared to use it.

So the bad guys only look tough in comparison to the wimpy and foolish good guys.

Well, the other bad guys are tougher. Crazy blonde clone, as you call her, and her nutball handler. But again, the good guys are foolish. That blonde may be Sarah's clone, but she is also not only a serial killer, but clearly planning to kill again, and Sarah just let her go before? Even if Sarah does not want to capture or kill her this episode, the smart move would have been to call her police friend and have him arrest the girl. Yes, he finds out about the whole clone thing, but it is hardly to Sarah's benefit to keep that secret at this point (she could get in trouble for impersonating an officer, but not a big deal compared to preventing murders...besides, Sarah has dirt on Beth's partner that could give her some leverage).

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Old 05-12-2013, 05:39 PM   #4
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Looks like her partner is already finding out about the clone thing. Or I guess she could just be a twin. I wonder if there are many cases of identical triplets? Is that possible?

Love the tail.

It wouldn't make much of a show, but Sarah and boyfriend and Felix and Mrs. S and the daughter should just run to the Australian outback or somewhere. No way is this going to end well.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:51 PM   #5
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They don't seem very tough. I was surprised Paul let himself be taken. Before he told Sarah to run, he should have been ready to fight (including knowing where everyone in the room is and what weapons they have, having a weapon himself, etc.). Also, Sarah was stupid the way she let herself be taken. She should have gone in with a gun and been prepared to use it.
Well, Sarah has an excuse...she's a former juvenile delinquent, not a former Army assassin.

As for Paul...

Olivier seems awfully clueless about the people he's studying...

So are they saying The Gay isn't genetic?
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:57 PM   #6
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Well, Sarah has an excuse...she's a former juvenile delinquent, not a former Army assassin.
But Alison gave her a gun and even some shooting lessons.

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:33 AM   #7
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So are they saying The Gay isn't genetic?
Could be bi. And crazy blonde clone does seem to have a thing for Sarah.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:15 AM   #8
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Gotta interject how much I love, love, love the way they do the hairstyles - blond with dark roots, the beautifully coifed locs, and the straight styles with and without bangs. Clearly, they are using wigs but they all look real -- except for the short style of the one that got shot in the car and Sarah buried.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:26 AM   #9
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It actually took a few seconds when Psycho Clone appeared for me to remember it's the same actor!
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:26 AM   #10
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So I guess I was wrong about Mrs. S (? the lady watching the daughter) being an observer (Fringe?)
I still think she is. Unless I'm misunderstanding her story, it doesn't hold up. And Sarah should be able to figure that out with the information she has.

She takes in foster children in England, including Sarah who was brought to her by Carlton. Carlton tells her Sarah must be hidden and kept safe. Later, Carlton returns and begs her to take Sarah far away and hide her. So she drops everything and runs across the globe to Unspecified Canadian City (Toronto) which just happens to be the very same city where the other clones and the mysterious organization doing something with them are located. Some of the clones came there from other places (Ukranian crazy clone, Dead German Clone, Casima maybe?) but some have been there for a good while - Allison, Beth, Sarah. They just all congregated there by coincidence? I think it's more likely that Mrs. S. took Sarah there on purpose, and that her story about Carlton is BS.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:41 AM   #11
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It actually took a few seconds when Psycho Clone appeared for me to remember it's the same actor!
This. It actually happens to me quite often with "all" of them. Very well done. This is turning into my sleeper show of the season. I'm really enjoying it. Do we know if they've shot a second season?
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:57 AM   #12
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II think it's more likely that Mrs. S. took Sarah there on purpose, and that her story about Carlton is BS.
Yeah, the two things that stand out to me as either really smart writing or sloppy, stupid writing are 1) the clones are scattered across the globe, yet Sarah is taken to the one city we know of that already has two of them; and 2) there's no scientific way any of them could be "the original," yet they keep talking about it...and Cosima (who as far as I can recall HASN'T talked about it) at least should know better. How (if) they resolve those issues will reveal a lot about exactly what kind of show this is.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:57 AM   #13
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...there's no scientific way any of them could be "the original," ...
Huh? Of course there is a way. One "natural" embryo could have been used as an original to make clone embryos. Then all embryos develop in the usual way.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #14
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This is what I've been wondering. I have no science knowledge whatsoever. Is a clone a copy of an existing thing, or totally made up? I guess since, as far as we know, no one has ever cloned a human, maybe we don't know the answer?

They could have told them all they're the original just to make them feel special, but what about Sara being the only one who could get pg? And why had the powers that be supposedly lost her, if the woman was watching her? I thought they were surprised when she turned up. If they knew she lived in the same city, they should have immediately wondered if she was impersonating Beth.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:35 PM   #15
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Clones are made from adult cells.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #16
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Clones are made from adult cells.
Except when they are not.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:59 PM   #17
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This is fiction. Clones are made however the writers decide they are made. As we don't have human clones right now, that can be any way they decided to do it. I'm not sure the "how" is the important part of the story as much as the "why" and what happens with the clones. I'm not going to worry about plausability just yet.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:00 PM   #18
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This is what I've been wondering. I have no science knowledge whatsoever. Is a clone a copy of an existing thing, or totally made up? I guess since, as far as we know, no one has ever cloned a human, maybe we don't know the answer?
There are several types of cloning. It is not made up. One of the most difficult types is to take an adult cell (for example, a mammary cell) and use the DNA from the adult cell to create a blastocyst that develops into a genetically identical copy of the original. This process is well-understood in animals (you may remember the famous Dolly the sheep), but has not been reported successfully in humans (probably more for ethical reasons than scientific reasons).

But it is also possible, and in fact easier, to create a clone from embryonic cells.

Anyway, here is a good primer on the subject of cloning:

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresource.../cloning.shtml
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:03 PM   #19
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Anyway, here is a good primer on the subject of cloning:

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresource.../cloning.shtml
That's an interesting article. You should read it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:26 PM   #20
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That's an interesting article. You should read it.
Whatever you are implying that I am wrong about, you are actually mistaken. But feel free to actually make your point rather than trying to pretend that you know what you are talking about. If you are specific, we should be able to get your error straightened out.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:43 PM   #21
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I happened to notice in the closing credits this week that the name of the show's science consultant is Cosima Herter.

Shades of "Scrubs," in which Zach Braff's character was named "J.D." after one of their medical advisors, Jonathan Doris, and Heather Graham's recurring character was named "Molly Clock" after their other medical advisor, Dolly Klock.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:16 PM   #22
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Most of that article was over my head, but thanks for the link. One thing I noticed is that as long as we've been doing it with animals, the success rate is pretty bad. Whoever did our clones on the show must have an awesome new technique.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:20 PM   #23
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One thing I noticed is that as long as we've been doing it with animals, the success rate is pretty bad. Whoever did our clones on the show must have an awesome new technique.
Or had a lot of unsuccessful zygotes / embryos. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Which raises the question, what happened to the surrogate mothers? Or have they also developed artificial womb technology (uterine replicators, as Lois Bujold imagined them in her books)?
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:19 AM   #24
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Gotta interject how much I love, love, love the way they do the hairstyles - blond with dark roots, the beautifully coifed locs, and the straight styles with and without bangs. Clearly, they are using wigs but they all look real -- except for the short style of the one that got shot in the car and Sarah buried.
I thought of kinda the same thing about the various hairdos while watching Cosima and wondered how long the makeup and hair sessions must be.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:32 AM   #25
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So far they have hewn pretty close to real science, though they have taken a few small liberties now and then, so I hope they're going to have a better answer for the idea of "the original" than the usual sci fi fare. That said, it's perfectly natural for the characters in the show to have this idea of an "original" if only that's because what most people think of cloning.

If they're all the same age, though, it's pretty trivial to say one of them is "the original" anyway. All it means is someone took a zygote and cloned it, which is basically like saying "we turned a single into quadruplets artificially" (only for n much greater than 4!) and the question of which one happens to have started with the zygote -- that cell is long gone anyway.

Unless, of course, they introduce something they haven't yet, in which the clones are not identical, in which each one has had some small tweaks in their genetic code. That would make a lot more sense as a scientific experiment anyway: making quadruplets is somewhat useful, but making a set of them where each one varies in one small way is a great way to test what those changes actually lead to. And I wonder if that's not where they're going -- and if it'll explain why Sarah is the only one to naturally conceive. (It could also easily let the dodge the nature/nurture question about why Cosima seems to have a different sexuality, not that they really need to, what with the whole spectrum issue.)

I wonder why they're saying "neolution" instead of "transhumanism". Maybe they don't want to piss off transhumanists.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:45 AM   #26
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Unless, of course, they introduce something they haven't yet, in which the clones are not identical, in which each one has had some small tweaks in their genetic code.
I've actually assumed for a while now that that is the case. Otherwise it would also be fairly impossible to know that Beth wasn't Beth for instance...
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:55 AM   #27
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Otherwise it would also be fairly impossible to know that Beth wasn't Beth for instance...
Not necessarily. Clones created by nuclear transfer are not indistinguishable, especially if the eggs are not from the same donor, since a small amount of the clone's genetic material will come from the mitochondria in the cytoplasm of the egg.

This would not be an issue if the clones were created by embryo twinning, only nuclear transfer. But the clones conceivably could have been created by nuclear transfer, for example, with cells taken from a late-term fetus or an infant (the original could not have been older than an infant since the clones appear to be approximately the same age, unless, of course, we have never seen "the original").

That said, I agree that it is likely that Leekie experimented on each clone, introducing one or more tweaks that make some or all of them distinguishable from each other, even if they were created by embryo twinning.

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Old 05-23-2013, 05:51 AM   #28
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I've actually assumed for a while now that that is the case. Otherwise it would also be fairly impossible to know that Beth wasn't Beth for instance...
I think it would be laughably easy. For instance, clones would not have the same cholesterol level in their blood, or the same brain activity on an EEG. The show has been dodging this question, but if you have time to do a full workup you should be able to pick up tons of cues based on diet, exercise, environment, the variations in development during growth, etc.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:03 AM   #29
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I think it would be laughably easy. For instance, clones would not have the same cholesterol level in their blood, or the same brain activity on an EEG. The show has been dodging this question, but if you have time to do a full workup you should be able to pick up tons of cues based on diet, exercise, environment, the variations in development during growth, etc.
Not to mention that they all have different haircuts.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:54 PM   #30
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Not to mention that they all have different haircuts.
And different names.
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