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Old 05-07-2013, 01:15 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ufo4sale View Post
Does that mean no new TiVo desktop is coming out?

probably no just no more free versions.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:18 AM   #32
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that page is still wrong the current version works with windows 8
No, it is not wrong. It says "TiVo Desktop is NOT supported in Windows 8 or above."
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:32 AM   #33
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notice only the pc version is ending the Mac free versions are still going to be available.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:34 AM   #34
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notice only the pc version is ending the Mac free versions are still going to be available.
Mac version isn't even worth having. Pretty much you need to have Roxio Toast or Roxio Popcorn in order to get transfer functionality. So, the Mac folks have always had to pay to get the same functionality as the free Windows version.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:45 AM   #35
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Best comment from Dave Zatz blog on this.

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1) Given recent experience with TiVo Desktop, won’t you be able to keep downloading it after June 5th if you set back the clock on your Windows PC?

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Old 05-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #36
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If they are coming out with new software that sounds like a good deal to me. I've been using TiVo Desktop for many, many years now. I more than got my moneys worth. If they introduce something new, I will get that as well. Especially if they still charge a low price like the do for TiVo Desktop+.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:25 PM   #37
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I think this is a support issue. Windows 8 does not include a MPEG-2 decoder by default, and no future version of Windows will either, so the free version is useless even for simple playback on Win8+ unless the user has an MPEG-2 codec from another source. Since there is no way to guarantee that TiVo is switching to Plus only, which includes an MPEG-2 codec, so they can guarantee files will at least play on all systems.

If you account for the licensing fees they're paying MainConcept and the MPEG-LA for all the various codecs they include in Plus they're really only making a few bucks off the $16 they're charging. So this isn't really a money making venture for them.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:47 PM   #38
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that page is still wrong the current version works with windows 8
Could they be adding video Codecs into the software package?

The application itself works fine, but I have not tried to play a video on my PC from a standard Windows 8 build. I suspect playback would fail due to a lack of standard video Codecs installed on Windows 8.

I still think we are going to see a major refresh in the software in the near future.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:21 PM   #39
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I think this is a support issue. Windows 8 does not include a MPEG-2 decoder by default, and no future version of Windows will either, so the free version is useless even for simple playback on Win8+ unless the user has an MPEG-2 codec from another source. Since there is no way to guarantee that TiVo is switching to Plus only, which includes an MPEG-2 codec, so they can guarantee files will at least play on all systems.

If you account for the licensing fees they're paying MainConcept and the MPEG-LA for all the various codecs they include in Plus they're really only making a few bucks off the $16 they're charging. So this isn't really a money making venture for them.
This would imply an even stronger indication that they are working on a Windows 8 Metro app that requires a TiVo Stream to transfer and stream shows. It makes perfect sense even though it will frustrate lots of users who will say "My computer can play MPEG 2, why require a Stream?!", not understand where the market is going.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:39 PM   #40
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This would imply an even stronger indication that they are working on a Windows 8 Metro app that requires a TiVo Stream to transfer and stream shows. It makes perfect sense even though it will frustrate lots of users who will say "My computer can play MPEG 2, why require a Stream?!", not understand where the market is going.
Not sure how you are getting from point A to B. Nothing TiVo has released has said TiVo Desktop for Windows 8 will be a Metro app and will require a Stream to work. All they have said is that the Officially supported TiVo Desktop for windows 8 will not be free.

That of course doesn't mean there will not be a Win 8 metro app for use with the Stream but I can not see them charging for it as they don't charge for the iOS app now.

What I do hope they find away to do in the future releases of TiVo Desktop is to have them be able to actually stream content from a Premiere.

Oh an by the way all that is required for Windows 8 to be able to play MPEG 2 files is to install the free VLC Media player.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #41
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This would imply an even stronger indication that they are working on a Windows 8 Metro app that requires a TiVo Stream to transfer and stream shows. It makes perfect sense even though it will frustrate lots of users who will say "My computer can play MPEG 2, why require a Stream?!", not understand where the market is going.
You're making a jump there. All I meant was that because the free version will not work "out of the box" with Windows 8, or any future Windows release, TiVo is making the decision to require the purchase of Plus because it includes the codec required to guarantee playback of .tivo files. There is no guarantee they will do any more development on the product just because you're paying for it. The Plus version has been for sale for like 5 years now and has not been updated much at all in that time.

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Oh an by the way all that is required for Windows 8 to be able to play MPEG 2 files is to install the free VLC Media player.
Not true! At least not for TiVo files. TiVo files are in a special .tivo container which encrypted and only converted to standard MPEG02 after being run through the included DirectShow filter. VLC is not DirectShow based so it has no way to decrypt the .tivo files and thus no way to play them. To play .tivo files in Windows 8 you need a DirectShow MPEG-2 decoder. There are some free ones out there, but technically they violate the MPEG-LA license so TiVo can't really recommend people use them.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:22 PM   #42
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Not sure how you are getting from point A to B. Nothing TiVo has released has said TiVo Desktop for Windows 8 will be a Metro app and will require a Stream to work. All they have said is that the Officially supported TiVo Desktop for windows 8 will not be free.

That of course doesn't mean there will not be a Win 8 metro app for use with the Stream but I can not see them charging for it as they don't charge for the iOS app now.
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You're making a jump there. All I meant was that because the free version will not work "out of the box" with Windows 8, or any future Windows release, TiVo is making the decision to require the purchase of Plus because it includes the codec required to guarantee playback of .tivo files. There is no guarantee they will do any more development on the product just because you're paying for it. The Plus version has been for sale for like 5 years now and has not been updated much at all in that time.
What I mean is that there is a strong indication (My gut) that they are working on a TiVo Companion App, like the TiVo app on iOS that allows you to manage your recordings, season passes, view the guide and hopefully, stream/transfer recordings from a TiVo Premiere via the TiVo Stream.

I didn't mean to imply that the Tivo Desktop software was being ported, it's a very different beast.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:41 PM   #43
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Not true! At least not for TiVo files. TiVo files are in a special .tivo container which encrypted and only converted to standard MPEG02 after being run through the included DirectShow filter. VLC is not DirectShow based so it has no way to decrypt the .tivo files and thus no way to play them. To play .tivo files in Windows 8 you need a DirectShow MPEG-2 decoder. There are some free ones out there, but technically they violate the MPEG-LA license so TiVo can't really recommend people use them.
That is not how it works on my Win 8 machine I am watching a unmodified TiVo file in Windows media player as I type this. I thought it was because I installed VLC that it worked but I may have installed K-Lite Codec Pack also don't remember at this point. If I did it was an earlier version than what I linked to.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:46 PM   #44
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That is not how it works on my Win 8 machine I am watching a unmodified TiVo file in Windows media player as I type this. I thought it was because I installed VLC that it worked but I may have installed K-Lite Codec Pack also don't remember at this point. If I did it was an earlier version than what I linked to.
If you're watching it in WMP, than it is not because you installed VLC. VLC definitely does not hook into the directshow filter chain. Most likely it is the K-Lite codec pack, which contains the unlicensed MPEG2 codec Dan referred to. That's not something TiVo can support officially.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:12 PM   #45
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If you're watching it in WMP, than it is not because you installed VLC. VLC definitely does not hook into the directshow filter chain. Most likely it is the K-Lite codec pack, which contains the unlicensed MPEG2 codec Dan referred to. That's not something TiVo can support officially.
Any even then, it won't work unless TiVo Desktop is installed.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:48 PM   #46
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Any even then, it won't work unless TiVo Desktop is installed.
Yes TiVo desktop is installed. But I honestly didn't think I had install the codec pack (the version of the file I have is 9.5.0.0) does anyone know where I can check to see if it is installed? I also have media center installed would that make it work? How about the HDHomerun software?

In any event it doesn't appear to be that hard to make the current free version work (including playing the files) in Windows 8 as I apparently did it without thinking about it directly.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:06 PM   #47
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Mac version isn't even worth having. Pretty much you need to have Roxio Toast or Roxio Popcorn in order to get transfer functionality. So, the Mac folks have always had to pay to get the same functionality as the free Windows version.
True, but those of us in the know (of which you are one) know about kmttg (and previously things like iTivo, but IMHO, that never worked great for me).
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:52 PM   #48
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Yeah, I'm certain the MPEG licensing is an issue. Since Windows no longer includes the codec, TiVo has to pay for one.

To see what DirectShow filters you're using:
  1. Download and run GraphStudio.
  2. Drop a .TIVO file into the window. A graph will be built showing the filters that will be used.
  3. Select View->Graph Construction Report. This will show all the files involved.

You can also double-click on a filter and check the Filter tab for details.

My computer shows I'm using ffdshow, which I got by installing the package from http://www.mediaplayercodecpack.com/
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:01 AM   #49
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Yes TiVo desktop is installed. But I honestly didn't think I had install the codec pack (the version of the file I have is 9.5.0.0) does anyone know where I can check to see if it is installed? I also have media center installed would that make it work? How about the HDHomerun software?
From what I've read the Media Center codecs work.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #50
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What I mean is that there is a strong indication (My gut) that they are working on a TiVo Companion App, like the TiVo app on iOS that allows you to manage your recordings, season passes, view the guide and hopefully, stream/transfer recordings from a TiVo Premiere via the TiVo Stream.

I didn't mean to imply that the Tivo Desktop software was being ported, it's a very different beast.
Probably not. Windows 8 does not support encrypted HLS, the protocol they use for streaming, natively. There is a 3rd party SDK you can license that enables it but it was just released at NAB the first week of April so I don't think we'll see a product using it any time soon. Although I sent a contact of mine at TiVo a link to the SDK a few days ago, just in case they hadn't heard of it. I actually would like to see a Windows 8 version of the TiVo app with streaming because I would like to get a Windows 8 tablet.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #51
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I also have media center installed would that make it work?
Yes. MCE includes all the codecs that were in Win7. So with MCE installed it's the same as having Win7.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #52
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Well, damn, didn't know 'free' was going away.

Good thing I bought plus eons ago, I guess?
Honestly, I have to say if it means something is done to improve the software , I'm all for it! I haven't seen any improvement in this in ages
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:33 AM   #53
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A lot of the 3rd party apps still require TiVo Desktop because it installs the DirectShow filter required to decrypt .tivo files. So if TiVo Desktop goes away then those 3rd party apps are going to lose a lot of their functionality.
Not kmttg. I have it on two PCs that haven't seen TiVo Desktop.
Mind you I have only a Series 2 TiVo.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #54
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Not kmttg. I have it on two PCs that haven't seen TiVo Desktop.
Mind you I have only a Series 2 TiVo.
Yeah there is an open source decryption program called tivodecode. However it only works with the older PS based .tivo format. Premiere units use a newer TS based format. You can still download the old PS format but it's slower and wont work with H.264 channels. There is a patch for tivodecode that sort of works with TS files, but it's not 100% so it can introduce artifacts into the audio and video.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:49 PM   #55
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So I have the 2.8.3 installer saved. Will I still be able to install this and have work after June 5th on let's say a new PC or an OS reinstall?
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:59 PM   #56
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So I have the 2.8.3 installer saved. Will I still be able to install this and have work after June 5th on let's say a new PC or an OS reinstall?
Should work. There is nothing in the software that would prevent it. I think they are just removing it from their site. Also you'll likely be excluded from any future enhancements.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:45 PM   #57
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...and what if you're a DT+ member who has already paid? Will they allow that carryover or are we talking more cash?

This does seem like a new way to squeeze cash from those who chose to take advantage of the poor business model of offering 'lifetime' service on things that would eventually need upgrading/improvements.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:40 PM   #58
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You should be fine.

I think the main purpose for doing this is support. Including the playback codecs in the package not only guarantees it works on systems without them, like Windows 8, it also guarantees consistency. With the plus version they explicitly load the included codecs into the DirectShow graph when playing a .tivo file, so they know exactly which filters are being used to play the file and can guarantee a consistent experience. With the free version they leave it to Windows to build the graph with whatever codecs it has available and that can create all sorts of issues. Some codecs work better then others, sometimes the demuxer filter conflicts with the decoder, etc...

We might also see a TiVo themed player offered. One with real FF/RW capabilities (or at least 30 second skip) and TiVo like controls and info overlays. That would be cool.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:27 AM   #59
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It is gone from the tivo page
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:47 AM   #60
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Not terribly surprised that it's gone, now I'm just wondering how people that had it before (ie: plus members) are supposed to download it... hmmm
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