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Old 04-30-2013, 11:05 PM   #1
NoVa
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New Build Wiring for Premiere4XL & Mini's?

Our new build wiring consists of 1 Coax & 1 Cat6 to each location.
We really design it with a strict budget & the promise from TiVo or others of a whole house DVR/Independent TV watching strategy in mind.

So, we first thing is that we want to be able to send 2 signals from the P4XL to 2 secondary rooms.

Questions:
1) Can the Mini's receive & pass along to TV - HiDef 1080i/1080p video via the coax or Cat6? If so, which is the prefer method?

2) Do I need an HDMI in there somewhere?

3) If I want to control remotely & put the Mini's & P4XL into a central closet, is it better to do RF or IR remotes?

4) Can the remote signal transmitted via the same coax or Cat6 above?

Appreciate any feedback!
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:00 AM   #2
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One important question: how long are your cable runs?
Unless you are going to invest in a HD modulator like some hotels now use (pricey), you won't be sending HD over coax. I haven't tried one, but HDMI over Cat5e baluns exist, so maybe that's good enough. The trick is if this whole system will correctly handle HDCP. I don't know if the newer TiVo boxes use it, or if your cable co. sets the content protection bits that would turn it on. Chances are if content protection is enforced you'll have to dedicated one TiVo or Mini to each TV you want to drive in HD. In the old days you'd just run 3 coax to each TV and use the component output, and have a 4th coax for SPDIF audio.
There are definitely systems to carry IR over coax, although I've taken to using the iphone app for remote control via wifi from other rooms. I haven't seen a balun that did both HDMI in one direction and IR in the other, but they might exist.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:07 AM   #3
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Typically HDMI over Cat5e/Cat6 requires two cable runs. At least the ones that we use for clients at work do.

Plus you should always have redundancy. So if you think you need one of each cable then you should have two of each type instead at each location
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:03 AM   #4
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I've seen a few HDMI baluns that only need a single Cat5e run. Although I haven't used them so I don't know if they're reliable or if they support all features. They are active devices that require power, so maybe they're actually repacking the 6 channels of data from HDMI into the 4 signal pair of the CAT5 cable and even using multilevel signaling?

No doubt, always better to run more cable than you think you need. I ran 2 CAT5e and 2 RG-6 to my living room and wish I'd run more to support multiroom HD from there.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiranda View Post
One important question: how long are your cable runs?
Longest is about 75 feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiranda View Post
Unless you are going to invest in a HD modulator like some hotels now use (pricey), you won't be sending HD over coax. I haven't tried one, but HDMI over Cat5e baluns exist, so maybe that's good enough. The trick is if this whole system will correctly handle HDCP. I don't know if the newer TiVo boxes use it, or if your cable co. sets the content protection bits that would turn it on. Chances are if content protection is enforced you'll have to dedicated one TiVo or Mini to each TV you want to drive in HD. In the old days you'd just run 3 coax to each TV and use the component output, and have a 4th coax for SPDIF audio.
I think what I am reading in your statement above is that it is possible however, not sure if it is possible with my existing cabling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiranda View Post
There are definitely systems to carry IR over coax, although I've taken to using the iphone app for remote control via wifi from other rooms. I haven't seen a balun that did both HDMI in one direction and IR in the other, but they might exist.
I think they do exist also. Can
t come up with specifics right now but stay tune
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Typically HDMI over Cat5e/Cat6 requires two cable runs. At least the ones that we use for clients at work do.

Plus you should always have redundancy. So if you think you need one of each cable then you should have two of each type instead at each location
aaronwt - will HDMI at the end of the Cat6 be able to carry the TiVo signal as HiDef?
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiranda View Post
I've seen a few HDMI baluns that only need a single Cat5e run. Although I haven't used them so I don't know if they're reliable or if they support all features. They are active devices that require power, so maybe they're actually repacking the 6 channels of data from HDMI into the 4 signal pair of the CAT5 cable and even using multilevel signaling?

No doubt, always better to run more cable than you think you need. I ran 2 CAT5e and 2 RG-6 to my living room and wish I'd run more to support multiroom HD from there.

I read this on AVS Forums:

Question1: So a solution that is bringing a signal via CAT6 with an HDMI extender in between should solve my HD output issue no?

Answer1:
Yes. Best products for that on the market are the HDBaseT units (cheapest ~$180). There are other solutions, but single-cable ones are generally over $100 anyway, and HDBaseT will give you remote repeating as well for that price.

Question2:
So then, your overriding determinant with the HDBaseT original suggestion is based on the ability to connect over further distances right?

Answer2:
No, although that's a feature of HDBaseT, it rarely comes into play for residential uses - <100' is a typical run length, so any of the "powered" baluns can handle that distance.

The things in HDBaseT that are important are 1) single-cable solution, 2) built-in IR, RS232 repeating/control, and 3) Ethernet pass-through.

Doing all that will other solutions will require at least two, and likely three or four cat5e cables. If you have a short-ish run, have enough cable and don't care about any of those things, a ~$100 HDMI balun set can work just fine. But I'd vote for the HDBaseT solution anyway.


Summary: So there is a 1 cable HDMI solution in an HDBaseT extenders which can basically carry a lot of data including full uncompressed 1080P, 3D, 7.1 Audio & bi-directional IR functionality via Cat6.

However, if I disregard the one location for all the boxes & just stick a mini on the wall behind the TV (low profile) - doesn't the Mini have an HDMI out to the monitor? Thus - it is an HDMI extender itself - no?

Last edited by NoVa : 05-01-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:23 PM   #8
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aaronwt - will HDMI at the end of the Cat6 be able to carry the TiVo signal as HiDef?
Yes. The ones we use at work are rated for 1080P60 at something like 115 feet for Cat5e and around 150 feet for Cat6. With solid conductor twisted pair. But these also use two cables for the A/V connection.

I've seen other ones that are rated for for 100 feet or less as well.

I did do a search and did some Baluns that can use one Cate/Cat6 cable. But those seem to cost several times as much as the ones we use at work that use two cables.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:37 PM   #9
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You shouldn't be thinking about TiVo, you should be thinking about general computer networking and A/V needs. Two CAT-6 and two RG-6 is a good start for each location.

With TiVo, for now, you are better off with a Mini at each location, and the TiVos all running on a single cable/MoCA system.
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