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Old 04-17-2013, 05:17 PM   #61
ggieseke
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Just to clarify (ignore this if tech bores you), Full reads every byte from alpha to omega in 2MB chunks. If it happens to stumble across a chunk that's all zeroes it makes a 4 byte note in the header and moves on. That's all. It will happily backup a garbage drive, a Windows drive, or anything else. Think dd with some compression.

Modified and Truncated backups depend on my ability to read all of the the Ext2 and MFS partitions, then decide which sectors to back up and which ones to ignore.

A Full backup of a "dirty" drive will probably be bigger than the source. If you delete all your recordings or even run C&DE it won't help.

On the other hand, the drives that TiVo's using right now come from the factory with all zeroes and they only overwrite parts of it or their build process gives the same result. Either way you get giant chunks of naughts that result in a small image.

End of the Mythbusters "science" lecture.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:55 PM   #62
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I backed up my original drive using DvrBARS, (160gb drive from Tivo HD) and then restored the image to a 2TB WD20EARX. I'd like to expand now using WinMFS, but WinMFS doesn't see my drive when loaded. Thoughts?
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #63
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I backed up my original drive using DvrBARS, (160gb drive from Tivo HD) and then restored the image to a 2TB WD20EARX. I'd like to expand now using WinMFS, but WinMFS doesn't see my drive when loaded. Thoughts?
You could have used WinMFS for the entire process. Make sure you are using administrative access.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:38 PM   #64
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I backed up my original drive using DvrBARS, (160gb drive from Tivo HD) and then restored the image to a 2TB WD20EARX. I'd like to expand now using WinMFS, but WinMFS doesn't see my drive when loaded. Thoughts?
I agree with ThAbtO. If WinMFS is not seeing the drive it usually means it needs administrator privileges. You should be able to expand the drive after DvrBARS restored the backup to the larger drive.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #65
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I backed up my original drive using DvrBARS, (160gb drive from Tivo HD) and then restored the image to a 2TB WD20EARX. I'd like to expand now using WinMFS, but WinMFS doesn't see my drive when loaded. Thoughts?
I just did that and WinMFS does see the drive but will not expand it for the full 2Tb, you can do the job by running jmfs to just expand the drive, do not supersize the drive with jmfs. You then can super size the drive using WinMFS. This just worked for me.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:31 AM   #66
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I just did that and WinMFS does see the drive but will not expand it for the full 2Tb, you can do the job by running jmfs to just expand the drive, do not supersize the drive with jmfs. You then can super size the drive using WinMFS. This just worked for me.
How large did WinMFS expand the drive.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:26 AM   #67
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How large did WinMFS expand the drive.
I did not use WinMFS to expand as it told me that 1Tb was the biggest drive that a TiVo-HD could take, I used jmfs to just expand than went back to WinMFS and used the super size on that program, worked great for a 2Tb TiVo-HD at 318 hours of HD record time. I did not try to first use WinMFS to super size than use jmfs to expand, as I said before do not use jmfs to super size a TiVo-HD.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:29 AM   #68
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I did not use WinMFS to expand as it told me that 1Tb was the biggest drive that a TiVo-HD could take, I used jmfs to just expand than went back to WinMFS and used the super size on that program, worked great for a 2Tb TiVo-HD at 318 hours of HD record time. I did not try to first use WinMFS to super size than use jmfs to expand, as I said before do not use jmfs to super size a TiVo-HD.
Yes that is the standard disclaimer WinMFS gives you. It will then ask you if you want to expansion limited to 1TB. Just say no and it will expand to the full 2Tb.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #69
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Yes that is the standard disclaimer WinMFS gives you. It will then ask you if you want to expansion limited to 1TB. Just say no and it will expand to the full 2Tb.
I did that and it did not work, at least for me, so I used the multi step process and that worked.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:40 AM   #70
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I did that and it did not work, at least for me, so I used the multi step process and that worked.
Are you talking about using WinMFS to do the whole process where you have to say no to expand after copy then use MFSAdd to expand and then supersize. Or are you talking about the multi step process where you used DvrBARS to restore to a larger drive and then JMFS to expand and WinMFS to supersize.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #71
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Are you talking about using WinMFS to do the whole process where you have to say no to expand after copy then use MFSAdd to expand and then supersize. Or are you talking about the multi step process where you used DvrBARS to restore to a larger drive and then JMFS to expand and WinMFS to supersize.
Multi step process, you can use DvrBARS or WinMFS to restore to the 2Tb drive, if using WinMFS don't expand, than use JMFS to expand, than WinMFS to supersize. This works, but you may be able to restore and supersize first using WinMFS, than expand using JMFS, I did not try doing that way.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:36 AM   #72
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Perhaps part of the challenge of the project could be to determine what areas of a never-booted "virgin" drive can be once again returned to zeros on a non-virgin drive, thus reducing the final size of a truncated & compressed backup? It would also be nice to know that the databases are fully wiped, if possible, which could also eliminate the need for a C&DE between different TiVos. I had followed some advice to boot the original drives, in order to keep cable-card pairing, only to have Cox roll out an update that somehow can tell if you swapped in a cloned drive, requiring a re-pair anyway. There's also a limited amount of time the pairing information remains valid, which kills the pairing just by leaving a TiVo unplugged for too long.

Has anybody found the location of the pairing data on the drive? That's a project I'd been thinking could lead to a backup of just that data, but Cox seems to have killed any reason for me to do that. Next comes SDV, which I've heard creates it's own problems and challenges. I'm not looking forward to it, but they've used up their whole 1GHz spectrum with insane internet speed. We get a "free" speed double every year, and then 6 months after, they increase the cost, and somehow rig it where downgrading loses some invisible discount so the cost stays the same, but the speed is slower...

Oops, got a bit off the rails there... Sorry. I still get mad every time Cox claims "Our HD is FREE", when it takes three paid services to get that "free" HD...

So, I guess, I can reel this back in, going back to the matter of zeroing out the right places. For instance, whatever video started recording once the non-virgin Tivo completed setup, etc. Is Comer still active, or is has he retired after JMFS 1.04? He knew a bit about what didn't need to be included in a truncated backup, but that post was long ago, in another thread that I already cluttered up enough for now.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:44 AM   #73
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Multi step process, you can use DvrBARS or WinMFS to restore to the 2Tb drive, if using WinMFS don't expand, than use JMFS to expand, than WinMFS to supersize. This works, but you may be able to restore and supersize first using WinMFS, than expand using JMFS, I did not try doing that way.
What model S3 do you have? Not sure why WinMFS could not do the whole expand and supersize. What type of backup and restore did you use with DvrBARS and I will try to replicate.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:59 AM   #74
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I'm curious as to what led to the concept of this. I suggested adapting jmfs to backup to a virtual drive, and/or run in a virtual machine when Comer released it. This tool is either proof that it wasn't impossible, or something changed, allowing it to be possible. I'm just happy to see that anybody is actually innovating tools to help unbrick or upgrade TiVo. I was beginning lose hope. So
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:31 PM   #75
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I'm curious as to what led to the concept of this.
Back in November I was virtualizing some servers at work, stumbled across yet another "you can't backup a Premiere" post and got curious. I cooked up a POS command-line app that would only run on Windows 7 and suckered retiredqwest into trying it. When he got something that would easily fit on a DVD or flash drive the obsession kicked in and almost 1000 hours of programming later...

Next time I get curious I may try beer instead, but thanks.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:18 PM   #76
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Perhaps part of the challenge of the project could be to determine what areas of a never-booted "virgin" drive can be once again returned to zeros on a non-virgin drive, thus reducing the final size of a truncated & compressed backup?
In Modified Full or Truncated mode it only backs up the parts of the drive that are actually in use. I may be able to squeeze a bit more compression out of a zipped image by taking that process down to the sector level instead of just marking 2MB blocks for inclusion in the backup, but probably not much.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:31 PM   #77
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<snip>almost 1000 hours of programming later...

Next time I get curious I may try beer instead, but thanks.
If it makes you feel any better, I spent about the same amount of time using a raw viewer on bricked GSOD looping TiVo drives, trying to find what was where, and what was breaking. I gave up when I came across "Swedish chef" over and over again. I decided to write it off as the Swedish Chef was borking my TiVos, and I'd have as much luck fixing it as the coyote catching the roadrunner. I then had a computer drive failure, which was the one where I'd documented all my work. So, yeah, sometimes beer seems much better.

I did, possibly, randomly, find something that has the TiVos up for a record amount of time - clear and delete the guide data every three months, with a KS52 on the reboot. Seriously, I'm actually expecting a mechanical drive failure, as opposed to a drive that tests fine and only works again when re-imaged. Now I have jinxed the experiment, and I'm sure I'll be swapping in a spare TiVo by tomorrow...
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:43 PM   #78
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In Modified Full or Truncated mode it only backs up the parts of the drive that are actually in use. I may be able to squeeze a bit more compression out of a zipped image by taking that process down to the sector level instead of just marking 2MB blocks for inclusion in the backup, but probably not much.
It was just a thought. I'm of the mindset of "if it ain't broken, fix it til it is" on some occasions. With TiVo, though, it's been more like "if it ain't broken, you forgot to plug it in and use it".

Best of luck.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:54 PM   #79
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What model S3 do you have? Not sure why WinMFS could not do the whole expand and supersize. What type of backup and restore did you use with DvrBARS and I will try to replicate.
This was done from a 652 TiVo-HD and an original 160Tb drive. WinMFS can't do 2Tb drives in my experience, yours may be different.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:47 AM   #80
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Several people have had success using WinMFS with 2TB drives as long as the TiVo software was already upgraded to the latest software including on the original S3 OLED. I hope to try taking my current S3 OLED from 1TB to 2TB in the future at some point.

Scott
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:49 AM   #81
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This was done from a 652 TiVo-HD and an original 160Tb drive. WinMFS can't do 2Tb drives in my experience, yours may be different.
Yes my experience has been different, however, I have only used WinMFS to expand an OLED S3 (648) to 2TB. I will get a 652 image and see if my experience is any different.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:35 AM   #82
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Yes my experience has been different, however, I have only used WinMFS to expand an OLED S3 (648) to 2TB. I will get a 652 image and see if my experience is any different.
The OLED S3 does work with WinMFS and a 2Tb drive.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #83
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Worked perfectly where winmfs would not salvage my Tivo Drive. Tivo was restarting errantly and the Seagate driving was getting more and more noisey.

Winmfs kept having issues and would not finishing copying the drive. Even after letting it set for extended periods of time(24 Hours). Guessing it was getting caught up in bad sectors.


DVRbars managed to back up settings and shows and recover them to a replacement drive within a few hours. Used Winmfs to expand to the new larger drive and everything works perfect again.

Thanks for great working software with a simple user interface.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:22 PM   #84
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You could have used WinMFS for the entire process. Make sure you are using administrative access.
I am using running WinMFS as an administrator. I would have done it all with WinMFS, but I can't get it to see my new drive. It sees my old drive fine, DvrBARS sees both drives fine, I'm stumped.

Using a USB to SATA adaptor with Windows 7 running in VMWare Fusion, on a Macbook Pro. New drive is a WD20EARX.

I used the same setup earlier in the week to upgrade a Tivo HD from 160 to 500GB, so I think my setup is working fine, but for some reason WinMFS just doesn't recognize this drive.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:55 AM   #85
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This was done from a 652 TiVo-HD and an original 160Tb drive. WinMFS can't do 2Tb drives in my experience, yours may be different.
Just played with a 652 image and had no problem with WinMFS taking it to 2TB. Could I get a truncated version of your original drive and test with that to see why it did not work for you.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:23 AM   #86
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I am using running WinMFS as an administrator. I would have done it all with WinMFS, but I can't get it to see my new drive. It sees my old drive fine, DvrBARS sees both drives fine, I'm stumped.

Using a USB to SATA adaptor with Windows 7 running in VMWare Fusion, on a Macbook Pro. New drive is a WD20EARX.

I used the same setup earlier in the week to upgrade a Tivo HD from 160 to 500GB, so I think my setup is working fine, but for some reason WinMFS just doesn't recognize this drive.
Are you going from the 500GB or 160GB drive to a larger drive. And how did you expand from the 160GB drive to the 500GB drive.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:52 PM   #87
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Are you going from the 500GB or 160GB drive to a larger drive. And how did you expand from the 160GB drive to the 500GB drive.
I'm trying to clone/expand from the 160GB to the 2TB drive.

I cloned/expanded 160GB to the 500GB using WinMFS. WinMFS had no problem seeing either drive, but the 500GB drive was way too loud, so I bought the WD20EARX, but WinMFS doesn't see it.

Since it doesn't see it, I tried to do it with DvrBARS. Cloning worked great, and I was hoping that cloning the drive would force WinMFS to recognize it, but no luck. Currently have the 2TB working, but shows only 21 hours HD capacity when installed in the Tivo HD.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:19 AM   #88
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lessd sent me an image of a 2TB 652 a few days ago. I sent you a PM.

If you want to DIY it here's another possibility.

Go into Disk Manager with the 2TB hooked up (don't let it initialize the disk) and write down the size. Then use Disk Manager to create a new VHD that's the same size or slightly smaller, like 1863.01GB instead if 1863.02GB. It's critical that you choose Dynamically expanding instead of the default of Fixed size.

Use DvrBARS to restore your 160 image to the new "physical" drive, dismount the image, and shut down the virtual computer.

Use VMWare to create an entirely new virtual computer that uses the VHD as a directly-connected physical hard drive and the jmfs ISO as the CD.

Boot the new VM, let jmfs do its stuff, and shut it down.

Back in your Windows 7 VM, restore the expanded image with DvrBARS.

Fusion is the only question mark. I've done this with VMWare Workstation, but I've never seen the Mac version.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:25 AM   #89
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I'm trying to clone/expand from the 160GB to the 2TB drive.

I cloned/expanded 160GB to the 500GB using WinMFS. WinMFS had no problem seeing either drive, but the 500GB drive was way too loud, so I bought the WD20EARX, but WinMFS doesn't see it.

Since it doesn't see it, I tried to do it with DvrBARS. Cloning worked great, and I was hoping that cloning the drive would force WinMFS to recognize it, but no luck. Currently have the 2TB working, but shows only 21 hours HD capacity when installed in the Tivo HD.
Does WinMFS see the 2Tb drive after you cloned it to the larger drive?
I have been able to boot JMFS CD on my Macbook and have it operational. It's an older C2D Macbook and depends if the Linux version on the JMFS CD has all the drivers for the hardware. Some people I understand were not able to do the same.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #90
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Does WinMFS see the 2Tb drive after you cloned it to the larger drive?
Nope, WinMFS has yet to see the 2tb drive at any step in the process.

Quote:
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I have been able to boot JMFS CD on my Macbook and have it operational. It's an older C2D Macbook and depends if the Linux version on the JMFS CD has all the drivers for the hardware. Some people I understand were not able to do the same.
I did try booting from a jmfs cd, and wasn't immediately successful. I didn't give it much effort after it wasn't immediately successful. I got a 2TB drive image that I'll try first, and if that doesn't work I'll give JMFS another shot.

Thanks!
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