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Old 04-14-2013, 08:29 AM   #1
SCSIRAID
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Search by Title - 'No Programs Found'

Im having an issue with my OLED S3 box with searches. When I select Find Programs / Search By Title / All Programs and then enter a letter to start the search, I immediately get 'No programs found' in the search output.

Lately, Ive also seen the 'running out of guide data' indication. Ive rebooted the box and forced connections but to no avail.

Any ideas?
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:21 AM   #2
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So en you force the connection, do you see the data loading complete?

Scott
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:21 AM   #3
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More info... The guide data is actually present... I can see programs in the onscreen guide out to 4/26 (12 days out).
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerronScott View Post
So en you force the connection, do you see the data loading complete?

Scott
I havent watched the connection process all the way thru.. but on the connection page, it indicates 'Last status: Succeeded'.

Last week I was getting an error.. I believe it was S03. Google search indicated that the fix was to unhook the network for a couple days and then retry. I did that and it resolved the problem and connections would complete OK.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID View Post
I havent watched the connection process all the way thru.. but on the connection page, it indicates 'Last status: Succeeded'.

Last week I was getting an error.. I believe it was S03. Google search indicated that the fix was to unhook the network for a couple days and then retry. I did that and it resolved the problem and connections would complete OK.
Time Warner victim?

SDV tuning adapter involved?
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:42 AM   #6
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Time Warner victim?

SDV tuning adapter involved?
Yup... TWC. TWC has done pretty good with me... except for the TA tune retries which lead to failed recordings.

Yup.. TA is involved. TA would not seem to be involved in this issue though. SDV tunes are fine and all channels are available.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID View Post
Im having an issue with my OLED S3 box with searches. When I select Find Programs / Search By Title / All Programs and then enter a letter to start the search, I immediately get 'No programs found' in the search output.

Lately, Ive also seen the 'running out of guide data' indication. Ive rebooted the box and forced connections but to no avail.

Any ideas?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID View Post
More info... The guide data is actually present... I can see programs in the onscreen guide out to 4/26 (12 days out).
I've had that erroneous running out of guide data message on my Tivo HD and reported it on 3/28/13 in this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=502701
to which no one responded. I've had it twice now about 10 days apart and in each case the "runs out" date was one week in the future. My message suggests connecting to the TiVo service but the only thing that gets rid of it is a restart. I'm not sure whether I tried any searches while the message was active. I reported this on the Tivo forums and got a standard "try everything" response, including redoing guided setup (no thanks!).

I use the pyTivo PlayOn plugin to push PlayOn videos and I suspected there might be some connection between that and the messages. Next time I get the messages I'll try a search to see if it is disabled.

Oh, and I'm on TWC too.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:48 PM   #8
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look on the system information screen. I bet the GC date is a while ago. The problem IS the tuning adapter. Unplug it for a day. The GC date will catch up and you can go back to normal. I am not an expert, I just dealt with the same thing on my 2 tivos last week. Even if I am wrong, it is a real easy thing to try.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:32 PM   #9
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Interesting. I Googled "What is Tivo GC" (yeah I know now it's Garbage Collection) and got an interesting hit on "that other forum we can't mention here" in a thread titled "Force Garbage Collection & Guide Indexing". In particular look at post #5. That thread also references a thread here that is pretty big and fairly recent:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=424234

Basically the theory is that "guide running out" errors result from TiVo being unable to complete its GC routine within some timeout period (e.g. 24 hrs) so it fails. This repeats and eventually you get the message and eventually other bad things happen like recordings not able to be scheduled, etc. It is stated that restarting will clear it but if you do this too often you get the S03 error, whatever that is.

Proposed solutions are:
1. Go to channel list and hit enter. I haven't done this yet but apparently you select the same guide data you are using but it forces download and GC.
or
2. Disconnect the TA -- I assume this means at the scheduled guide data download time (?).

It is stated that his occurs when:
1. Using TA
2. Hard Disk upgraded to 1TB or more.
And it is suggested you use a 2 GB cache for the HDD upgrade.

How do you know when you have the GC problem (other than these silly messages)? Right now, April 14th, my GC date is April 8th and my Program Info, Cached to date is April 21st. This doesn't sound too good does it? In fact I suspect I'm about to get the "message" again (since the cached to date is just one week out).

I've been running my 1 TB upgraded HDD for 3.5 years now with TA and just started getting these messages recently.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #10
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Looking at System Information...

Service connection dates are yesterday... 4/13
Next scheduled is tomorrow 4/14
GC is Thursday April 4 (!!!!!!!!!)
Indexing is Sunday April 14
Cacht to: Sunday April 21
VCM is today

So it looks like Garbage Collection is the problem...

I guess Ill pull the TA and the network connection and let it crunch?
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:56 PM   #11
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Ok... So i forced a connection. I watched it all the way to completion... loading proceeded to 100% and completed cleanly. Unplugged network, Unplugged TA..

Fingers crossed....

All this seemed to start when the S3 was off for 5-6 days waiting for replacement caps for the power supply... powered back up on 3/20. Interesting that 14 days later was the last successful GC date.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID View Post
Looking at System Information...

Service connection dates are yesterday... 4/13
Next scheduled is tomorrow 4/14
GC is Thursday April 4 (!!!!!!!!!)
Indexing is Sunday April 14
Cacht to: Sunday April 21
VCM is today

So it looks like Garbage Collection is the problem...

I guess Ill pull the TA and the network connection and let it crunch?

Sounds like it to me.

For comparison:

Last service connection: 4/14 5:33am
GC: 4/14 7:03am
Indexing: 4/14 6:19am

Scott
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:25 PM   #13
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I also think it's a GC problem. Turns out there's a 22 page thread on this forum about exactly this issue:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=472857
It's titled: "when will tivo fix "fix program info will runout on 7/28/2011, connect to tivo" problem."

I was thrown off by the old date, assuming it was a one time glitch that occurred way back then. But it's exactly what we're seeing.

A popular solution is to put the TA on a timer that shuts it down for 4 hours each night. You can also disconnect tivo from network for 2 or 3 days (!!!) and one user programmed his router to deny tivo connections for 3 days a week!

By why does this suddenly start up after 3.5 years using the same setup -- except for exchanging 2 S-Cards for 1 M-Card 9 months ago ???

My GC date of 8 April 2013 coincides with when I power-cycled the TA to recover having lost all channels after an EAS alert. I did NOT restart the TiVo at that time and the TA was powered down for only about 20 seconds! My last Tivo reboot was 4 April, so that GC seems to be from the TA power cycling.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:46 AM   #14
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Unpluging the network didnt work for me. I tried all kinds of things including the ones mentioned above. I made 4 copies and kept failing. I kept starting with new copies of a working image. The problem was that the GC was stuck, just like yours and my source drives GC date was years ago. I learned my lesson. If you play/fix it your gonna get stuck in the guided set up loop. Just disconnect the the tuning adapter and come back tomorrow. You will get most channels anyway and have NO risk of screwing anything up. There is no fix for this, but if you really want to see if the your having a GC issue you can look at the tivo suggestions list (not "now playing". the list that tells you what it is planing to record) and see if it is empty. It seems the S03 and tivo not recording suggestions are related. I spent a whole week screwing with this and googleing.
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:58 AM   #15
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Looks like you guys nailed it.... I checked the S3 this morning and with the TA and network pulled, GC completed overnight. Search now works fine.

I knew that the TA interfered with the recording of suggestions but had no idea it had such an impact on other things too. I wish TiVo would step up and fix the TA interaction problems before they close the book on S3/THD. I plan to keep my lifetime S3 going for quite some time even though I have a couple of Premiers too.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:59 AM   #16
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As I suspected my "run out" message reappeared last night. I immediately power-cycled the TA but 9 hours later no GC has occurred (and the message is still there). I guess I'll have to disconnect the TA for four hours.

Does this require powering down the TA or does just disconnecting the USB connection do it? When I power down my TA, I lose all cable.

I wish I could do without the TA but in my case more than half our viewing hours are on SDV channels.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:04 AM   #17
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If you read the other huge thread here of TCF on the GC problem, the common solution that many use is to put the TA on a lamp timer and essentially set it to be powered off for 3-4 hours every night when you're unlikely to be recording anything.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
........A popular solution is to put the TA on a timer that shuts it down for 4 hours each night. .........
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
........Does this require powering down the TA or does just disconnecting the USB connection do it? When I power down my TA, I lose all cable.

.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatergator1 View Post
If you read the other huge thread here of TCF on the GC problem, the common solution that many use is to put the TA on a lamp timer and essentially set it to be powered off for 3-4 hours every night when you're unlikely to be recording anything.
Yeah, I did read that (as shown by my prior post quoted above), but thanks anyway. I'm still curious whether just disconnecting the USB accomplishes the deed.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:26 AM   #19
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Yeah, I did read that (as shown by my prior post quoted above), but thanks anyway. I'm still curious whether just disconnecting the USB accomplishes the deed.
Sorry, I saw you mention the other thread, but missed the mention of the solution. I would suspect simply removing the USB cable would work, as would eliminate any Tivo/TA communication, which is what is presumably causing the interference with GC. Probably not the most convenient solution since you'd have to remember to plug/unplug the USB cable all the time.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:58 AM   #20
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...... I would suspect simply removing the USB cable would work, as would eliminate any Tivo/TA communication, which is what is presumably causing the interference with GC. Probably not the most convenient solution since you'd have to remember to plug/unplug the USB cable all the time.
I disconnected the USB at 11:08 am and almost two hours later (12:59pm) my GC date has updated to 12:26pm today. However the "runs out" message is still there. In the hope that the GC date is just the time when the GC started, I'm going to leave the USB disconnected for another couple of hours and hope the message goes away. I seem to still be able to tune the non-SDV channels this way, which is better than no cable channels at all.

I wonder if having the TA disconnected makes any difference once the GC has started? I also wonder if the "message" will only go away after the next connection to the TiVo service completes?
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:09 PM   #21
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I disconnected the USB at 11:08 am and almost two hours later (12:59pm) my GC date has updated to 12:26pm today. However the "runs out" message is still there. In the hope that the GC date is just the time when the GC started, I'm going to leave the USB disconnected for another couple of hours and hope the message goes away. I seem to still be able to tune the non-SDV channels this way, which is better than no cable channels at all.

I wonder if having the TA disconnected makes any difference once the GC has started? I also wonder if the "message" will only go away after the next connection to the TiVo service completes?
The "guide data runs out" wouldn't fix itself until the next network connection to the Tivo servers since it needs to download more guide data so it won't run out.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #22
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I disconnected the USB at 11:08 am and almost two hours later (12:59pm) my GC date has updated to 12:26pm today. However the "runs out" message is still there. In the hope that the GC date is just the time when the GC started, I'm going to leave the USB disconnected for another couple of hours and hope the message goes away. I seem to still be able to tune the non-SDV channels this way, which is better than no cable channels at all.

I wonder if having the TA disconnected makes any difference once the GC has started? I also wonder if the "message" will only go away after the next connection to the TiVo service completes?
Follow up:
About 2.5 hrs after disconnecting the USB, the "message" was gone. After about 3.5 hrs I reconnected the USB. So now I have no "message" and a current GC date. So (fingers crossed) it looks like just disconnecting the USB for several hours does the trick. I'm glad of that because some posters have said if you keep restarting every two weeks you eventually get the "S03" error and that is very difficult to recover from -- in fact if you do the wrong thing at that point (try to repeat guided setup) you get in an infinite start up loop --- so they say.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:01 AM   #23
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Follow up:
About 2.5 hrs after disconnecting the USB, the "message" was gone. After about 3.5 hrs I reconnected the USB. So now I have no "message" and a current GC date. So (fingers crossed) it looks like just disconnecting the USB for several hours does the trick. I'm glad of that because some posters have said if you keep restarting every two weeks you eventually get the "S03" error and that is very difficult to recover from -- in fact if you do the wrong thing at that point (try to repeat guided setup) you get in an infinite start up loop --- so they say.
I was able to get around the S03 error pretty easily... I just unplugged the network connection for 3 days... When I reconnected and forced a connection all was well... (well... except for the search problem which popped up afterwards).
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:04 AM   #24
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So how often does GC really need to run??

Since I unplugged the TA and let GC complete a couple days ago... GC is still stuck back at an early monday morning date and time. I have ordered a small 7 day timer and will set it up to kill the TA a couple times a week for 4 hours (like Sunday and Wednesday nights say 3am to 7am). Should that be enough to 'do the trick'?
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:06 PM   #25
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So how often does GC really need to run??

Since I unplugged the TA and let GC complete a couple days ago... GC is still stuck back at an early monday morning date and time. I have ordered a small 7 day timer and will set it up to kill the TA a couple times a week for 4 hours (like Sunday and Wednesday nights say 3am to 7am). Should that be enough to 'do the trick'?
I'm in the same situation and have the same question. And I'm still wondering why this issue started up after 3.5 years with no change in my hardware other than switching from 2 s-cards to 1 m-card, and that was 9 months back.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #26
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My tivo did a GC early this am without disconnecting the TA. This was slightly less than 3 days after the previous GC.

This leads me back to suspecting it may be something out of the ordinary that I'm doing to my tivo, which is pushing PlayOn videos with the PlayOn plugin for pyTivo. I deliberately didn't do any such pushes for the last three days.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:14 PM   #27
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My tivo did a GC early this am without disconnecting the TA. This was slightly less than 3 days after the previous GC.

This leads me back to suspecting it may be something out of the ordinary that I'm doing to my tivo, which is pushing PlayOn videos with the PlayOn plugin for pyTivo. I deliberately didn't do any such pushes for the last three days.
Update:
I refrained from using pyTivo for a week and got two more GC's (without disconnecting the TA) at intervals of just two days. So now I've resumed using pyTivo and we will see how it goes.
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