TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Mini
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 04-11-2013, 11:41 PM   #61
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
I'm still happy with my 6.95 a month Premiere. (or Premier if you can't actually read the name on the box of the thing)

The mini is a useless turd to me at this point.
You are happy because you have a Premiere at a price that is not available for new subscribers.

The Mini is not necessarily aimed at you. However it's worth pointing out that;

1. The Mini is a LOT faster than your Premiere.
2. The Mini uses less than 20% of the electricity of a Premiere.
3. Mini has no moving parts to fail.
4. Mini requires no cable card rentals, extra outlet charges, etc.

It's for THOSE reasons that some of us with 4 tuner TiVos have bought one or more Minis.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 11:43 PM   #62
Arcady
Stargate Fan
 
Arcady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,894
I have a 4 tuner box.

I don't want a 3 tuner box.

In fact, I have a 6 tuner box if I combine the Elite and the cheapass Premiere.

The financials make no sense for this Mini nonsense.

As for electricity, I have things like air conditioners and microwaves that use 1200 times the power. Who cares?

Cable Cards are $2. Who cares?

If the hard drive fails, I can buy a 2TB for $79. Who cares?
__________________
Roamio Pro (3TB)
Premiere Elite (2TB)
Premiere (320GB)
Two TiVo Minis

Left DirecTV 4/15/07. Left TWC 8/8/11. Now on Comcast Xfinity.
Arcady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 11:57 PM   #63
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,185
I have a 4 tuner box that is still a 4 tuner box even with a Mini attached to it as I don't dedicate any tuners to the Mini. The GUI speed on the 4 tuner box is just pitiful compared to the speed of the Mini, so much so that I mostly use the Mini as my main front end to the Elite. And yes the speed of My Elite is so lousy I was happy to fork out $250 bucks to improve on it tremendously. Personally I can't wait until next 4+ tuner TiVo model with better processor is available so I can get rid of my sluggish Elite (well I probably won't get rid of it but will relegate it permanently to headless recording). The responsiveness of the Mini is not something to be overlooked by those who have never tried it and hopefully is a preview of coming attractions for new TiVo DVR boxes.
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by moyekj : 04-12-2013 at 12:02 AM.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 12:00 AM   #64
Arcady
Stargate Fan
 
Arcady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,894
I don't get people who complain about the interface speed. I use it for 20 seconds to pick a show to watch. It's not like it makes the actual show play slowly. Did you ever use a CD player in 1984? Wow, CD should have failed as a format! Give me a break.
__________________
Roamio Pro (3TB)
Premiere Elite (2TB)
Premiere (320GB)
Two TiVo Minis

Left DirecTV 4/15/07. Left TWC 8/8/11. Now on Comcast Xfinity.
Arcady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 12:14 AM   #65
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
I have a 4 tuner box.

I don't want a 3 tuner box.

In fact, I have a 6 tuner box if I combine the Elite and the cheapass Premiere.

The financials make no sense for this Mini nonsense.

As for electricity, I have things like air conditioners and microwaves that use 1200 times the power. Who cares?

Cable Cards are $2. Who cares?

If the hard drive fails, I can buy a 2TB for $79. Who cares?
The financials make plenty of sense. Because you don't care about your electric bill and because you don't have to pay the $9 outlet fee that many have to pay per cable card and because you don't care about the interface speed the Mini does not make sense to you. The problem is you can't see things from anyone else's point of view. For someone paying .25 per kwh for electricity and paying $9 a month for a CC + outlet charge the Mini makes financial sense. You are hung up about how many tuners you have but the reality is many of us can "get by" with three tuners until dynamic tuner allocation is delivered.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 12:20 AM   #66
Arcady
Stargate Fan
 
Arcady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,894
You can highlight you all you want, but $250 for a box that saves me negative money is stupid. It's not my fault you have a cable company that cheats and charges fake outlet charges.
__________________
Roamio Pro (3TB)
Premiere Elite (2TB)
Premiere (320GB)
Two TiVo Minis

Left DirecTV 4/15/07. Left TWC 8/8/11. Now on Comcast Xfinity.
Arcady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 06:12 AM   #67
atmuscarella
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 3,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
I'm still happy with my 6.95 a month Premiere. (or Premier if you can't actually read the name on the box of the thing)

The mini is a useless turd to me at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
You can highlight you all you want, but $250 for a box that saves me negative money is stupid. It's not my fault you have a cable company that cheats and charges fake outlet charges.
And your point is what? That not ever product that TiVo makes works or makes sense for you? Welcome to the club. All of the products that TiVo has released since the Premiere don't work for me - so what? It certainly doesn't mean that all of those products are worthless for everyone, it just means they are not for me.
__________________
atmuscarella
R.I.P. - 04/04 - Dish 510
09/05 - Humax T-800
R.I.P. - 08/06 - TiVo
05/08 - TiVo HD
06/08 - Panasonic 50PZ800U 50" Plazma!!
03/10 - Series 3
11/10 - Premiere
09/13 - Roamio
atmuscarella is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 07:07 AM   #68
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,034
I use my Minis more than my Elites. But that is because I have a Mini in my main setup, next to an Elite, that I use for most of my TV watching. Instead of using the Elite.
Once a Six tuner box comes out, I'll be using the six tuner box for my main viewing.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 08:57 AM   #69
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
You can highlight you all you want, but $250 for a box that saves me negative money is stupid. It's not my fault you have a cable company that cheats and charges fake outlet charges.
And it's not my fault that you insist on wasting everyone's time thread-crapping all over the place in the TiVo Mini forum when you clearly have zero interest in the thing.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 03:27 PM   #70
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
I think people need to stop trying to look at the Mini as a stand alone product, which it is not. Looking at it that way completely missing what TiVo is selling. Which is a whole home digital cable DVR system. I think that is what TiVo is trying to compete against.

My personal opinion is that TiVo is ahead of other whole home digital cable DVR systems but really needs to improve the software and get new DVR hardware out the door to stay there.
Exactly. TiVo was BEHIND in that manner up until now, since Comcast and the others had it. And DirecTV and whatnot.

They definitely need to work on the software and software features, as I think we do (and should) hold them to a higher standard than what the MSO itself offers.

The Mini is the piece of the puzzle that TiVo was missing. The Premiere didn't scale well at $650/TV, whereas the Mini at $250/TV scales upwards a lot better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
I have a 4 tuner box.

I don't want a 3 tuner box.

In fact, I have a 6 tuner box if I combine the Elite and the cheapass Premiere.

The financials make no sense for this Mini nonsense.

As for electricity, I have things like air conditioners and microwaves that use 1200 times the power. Who cares?

Cable Cards are $2. Who cares?

If the hard drive fails, I can buy a 2TB for $79. Who cares?
You can set the Mini up to not have Live TV, and DTA is coming.

1 watt = $1/yr (roughly, calculated here in the Northeast, YMMV), so there is a little savings there.

Not everyone is that lucky on CableCards. On Comcast they are around $7/card, unless they are in the same device.

The Mini is not intended to replace a Premiere, and it's not intended to be mutually exclusive. If you have two big TV's, maybe you'd want an XL4 and a Premiere, and a Mini for a kitchen, basement, garage, laundry room, wherever.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 09:01 AM   #71
shwru980r
Registered User
 
shwru980r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
TiVo Mini is modeled after the many many MSO "whole home" boxes. Those are current products that are selling well for the MSOs.
Customers don't own MSO equipment. The MSO can bundle their whole home systems at a reduced rate or free initially to attract customers.

I think the mini is more closely modeled after the WMC extenders or Moxi mate, and most of those were discontinued.
__________________

Premiere-$99 Lifetime-OTA
HD-Lifetime-OTA
S3 OLED-Lifetime-OTA
shwru980r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 09:05 AM   #72
shwru980r
Registered User
 
shwru980r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Not to mention the satellite Joey and Genie extenders.
Yes, but cable and satellite companies are already selling an expensive service and can use the DVR as an inital loss leader and start charging at a later date once the customer is hooked.
__________________

Premiere-$99 Lifetime-OTA
HD-Lifetime-OTA
S3 OLED-Lifetime-OTA
shwru980r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 09:07 AM   #73
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by shwru980r View Post
Customers don't own MSO equipment. The MSO can bundle their whole home systems at a reduced rate or free initially to attract customers.

I think the mini is more closely modeled after the WMC extenders or Moxi mate, and most of those were discontinued.
Are you forgetting that the Mini is distributed via TiVo's MSO partners including Suddenlink, GCI, Grande, Evolution Digital, ...?

Retail is secondary from a business model perspective.
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 12:53 PM   #74
shwru980r
Registered User
 
shwru980r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
Are you forgetting that the Mini is distributed via TiVo's MSO partners including Suddenlink, GCI, Grande, Evolution Digital, ...?

Retail is secondary from a business model perspective.
I thought this thread was discussing the retail version of the mini.
__________________

Premiere-$99 Lifetime-OTA
HD-Lifetime-OTA
S3 OLED-Lifetime-OTA
shwru980r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #75
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by shwru980r View Post
I thought this thread was discussing the retail version of the mini.
It started that way but ....
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #76
Loach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by shwru980r View Post
Yes, but cable and satellite companies are already selling an expensive service and can use the DVR as an inital loss leader and start charging at a later date once the customer is hooked.
Cox sure as hell isn't using whole home DVR with extenders as a "loss leader" in my market.
__________________
Roamio Pro (MoCA)
Premiere 4 (MoCA) w/2TB WD20EURS upgrade
2 Minis (MoCA/Ethernet)
Loach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #77
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Cox sure as hell isn't using whole home DVR with extenders as a "loss leader" in my market.
Yeah, Comcast is making a pretty penny at $17/mo for the DVR, $10/mo for each additional box, and a $3 whole home DVR fee. They're probably making back the cost of the equipment is 2 years, and they have the stuff out there for a lot longer than that.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 11:35 AM   #78
shwru980r
Registered User
 
shwru980r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Yeah, Comcast is making a pretty penny at $17/mo for the DVR, $10/mo for each additional box, and a $3 whole home DVR fee. They're probably making back the cost of the equipment is 2 years, and they have the stuff out there for a lot longer than that.
I think the offers usually go to new customers or existing internet only customers. Maybe you could get a better deal if you changed providers.
__________________

Premiere-$99 Lifetime-OTA
HD-Lifetime-OTA
S3 OLED-Lifetime-OTA
shwru980r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #79
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by shwru980r View Post
I think the offers usually go to new customers or existing internet only customers. Maybe you could get a better deal if you changed providers.
I'm on a new sub deal with Comcast now. $94 for Blast! and every cable channel plus HBO, I own my TiVo and D3 modem.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 09:37 AM   #80
JoeTaxpayer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 488
I read the Times article. The 4 tuner TiVo has the same monthly fee or lifetime fee as the 2 tuner models. Correct?
A new buyer would quickly choose the 4 tuner/mini combo and TiVo would lose revenue, as this combination cannibalizes their own sales.
At a flat $99/no fee, current users would have a high incentive to get rid of one box carrying the monthly fee. $13/mo plus the $8 outlet fee many cable co's provide is $21. This is a one year break even to get rid of a two tuner second tivo with the Mini sold for $250 including service. (I haven't checked what the power draw is on the regular TiVo, but cost is about $1.50 per year-watt, so for the budget conscious, I see how this adds up)

I agree, it would have been a different PR issue to just price it at $250, period. My network is mixed, wired/wireless, and my TiVos are all lifetime service, so my numbers are a bit different. A sale of a LT Tivo would be part of the equation.
__________________
Toshiba SD-H400, Tivo Series 2, Tivo HD, TiVo Series 3 THX, TiVo Premiere (All upgraded with extra HD goodness) and an XL4.

Last edited by JoeTaxpayer : 04-23-2013 at 11:25 AM.
JoeTaxpayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 11:46 AM   #81
slowbiscuit
FUBAR
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 2,625
Yes, the service fee is the same whether you get a 2 or 4-tuner Tivo.
slowbiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 11:09 PM   #82
Arcady
Stargate Fan
 
Arcady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,894
Or a 6-tuner TiVo.
__________________
Roamio Pro (3TB)
Premiere Elite (2TB)
Premiere (320GB)
Two TiVo Minis

Left DirecTV 4/15/07. Left TWC 8/8/11. Now on Comcast Xfinity.
Arcady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 10:00 AM   #83
JoeTaxpayer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
Or a 6-tuner TiVo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Yes, the service fee is the same whether you get a 2 or 4-tuner Tivo.
Understood. I was trying to make an objective point, that somewhere in the math, TiVo competes with itself. The Mini sale taking away from a potential full TiVo sale.
__________________
Toshiba SD-H400, Tivo Series 2, Tivo HD, TiVo Series 3 THX, TiVo Premiere (All upgraded with extra HD goodness) and an XL4.
JoeTaxpayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:32 PM   #84
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTaxpayer View Post
Understood. I was trying to make an objective point, that somewhere in the math, TiVo competes with itself. The Mini sale taking away from a potential full TiVo sale.
Or maybe an additional sale because the Mini is less in cost, both in cable card cost, and hardware/service cost, than a unneeded full DVR.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 04:50 PM   #85
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTaxpayer View Post
I read the Times article. The 4 tuner TiVo has the same monthly fee or lifetime fee as the 2 tuner models. Correct?
A new buyer would quickly choose the 4 tuner/mini combo and TiVo would lose revenue, as this combination cannibalizes their own sales.
At a flat $99/no fee, current users would have a high incentive to get rid of one box carrying the monthly fee. $13/mo plus the $8 outlet fee many cable co's provide is $21. This is a one year break even to get rid of a two tuner second tivo with the Mini sold for $250 including service. (I haven't checked what the power draw is on the regular TiVo, but cost is about $1.50 per year-watt, so for the budget conscious, I see how this adds up)

I agree, it would have been a different PR issue to just price it at $250, period. My network is mixed, wired/wireless, and my TiVos are all lifetime service, so my numbers are a bit different. A sale of a LT Tivo would be part of the equation.
Yup. LT is always the way to go, but dumb consumers keep buying monthly...
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #86
JoeTaxpayer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
Or maybe an additional sale because the Mini is less in cost, both in cable card cost, and hardware/service cost, than a unneeded full DVR.
Sure. The 4 tuner owner who has a second TV has options, nothing, mini, full tivo, apple TV etc.

It's not all or none. This was Apple's issue with an iPad mini. Would that sale take from a Kindle/Nook/other, or from a full iPad? Tough to know.

I happen to have more TiVos than I need right now, but if I were starting over, a 4 tuner plus Mini is pretty appealing.
__________________
Toshiba SD-H400, Tivo Series 2, Tivo HD, TiVo Series 3 THX, TiVo Premiere (All upgraded with extra HD goodness) and an XL4.

Last edited by JoeTaxpayer : 04-25-2013 at 07:49 AM.
JoeTaxpayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #87
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,566
But as Steve Jobs said, you can't be afraid of cannibalizing your own business, as someone else will.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 10:49 PM   #88
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
But as Steve Jobs said, you can't be afraid of cannibalizing your own business, as someone else will.
+1
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 02:44 PM   #89
Trekboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
But as Steve Jobs said, you can't be afraid of cannibalizing your own business, as someone else will.
+2
Trekboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 07:52 PM   #90
innocentfreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Yup. LT is always the way to go, but dumb consumers keep buying monthly...
I wouldn't call them dumb since they allow TiVo to continue to offer lifetime. I imagine TiVo would have to make changes if everyone opted for lifetime.
__________________
1 - TiVo Roamio Pro
2 - TiVo Premiere XL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
innocentfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |