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Old 02-02-2013, 09:28 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
Just for general info most new movies are actually filmed in 4K (4 times the definition as 1080p) and there is talk about going to 8K so even a blu-ray disk is compressed and a reduction in the quality compared to the movie in theaters. Also HD TVs can not currently reproduce as wide a color field as what you can see in a movie theater. Ok end of my plug for still going to movie theaters.
Blu-ray is already compressed and most films don't use the whole disk (which is why they can have extras on the same disk). If the blu-ray spec adds h.265 compression, then twice as much data can fit on the disk.

Also I'm not sure where you got that HD TV's can't produce as much color as a movie theater projector. Maybe you are referencing the fact that the RGB color range for blu-rays is actually 16-235 instead of 0-255, but that's not a limitation of HD TVs. Mine supports 0-255 which is called "wide color" in the settings. It's just not used for movies or TV since that uses YPrPb and not RGB and the current standard for YPrPb says color needs to be between 16 and 235. Video games use RGB so they can support the full color range (0-255) on my TV if the settings on my TV match my PS3. In any case the limitation isn't on the TV, but the video source.

Personally other than IMAX films, I find movie theater picture quality to be lacking compared to HD TV. So much so that I can't watch regular (non iMAX digital or analog) films as the quality is lacking.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:52 AM   #182
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Blu-ray is already compressed and most films don't use the whole disk (which is why they can have extras on the same disk). If the blu-ray spec adds h.265 compression, then twice as much data can fit on the disk.

Also I'm not sure where you got that HD TV's can't produce as much color as a movie theater projector. Maybe you are referencing the fact that the RGB color range for blu-rays is actually 16-235 instead of 0-255, but that's not a limitation of HD TVs. Mine supports 0-255 which is called "wide color" in the settings. It's just not used for movies or TV since that uses YPrPb and not RGB and the current standard for YPrPb says color needs to be between 16 and 235. Video games use RGB so they can support the full color range (0-255) on my TV if the settings on my TV match my PS3. In any case the limitation isn't on the TV, but the video source.
If you would like to see an explanation of the color thing take a look at this episode of Tezilla:
http://revision3.com/tekzilla/bb10-i...gopro-teardown
The part about color starts at 9:40 and only runs at about 3 mins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by morac View Post
Personally other than IMAX films, I find movie theater picture quality to be lacking compared to HD TV. So much so that I can't watch regular (non iMAX digital or analog) films as the quality is lacking.
I live in a small rural town and my local theater is pretty poor so I do understand your observation. But if I drive up to Rochester and go to a better theater it is completely different. The bottom line is a good theater is the only place you can possibly see (and hear) a movie as the producer intended. Frankly because my room setup causes me to sit 14 ft away from my set and because most theater movies on blu-ray are not full screen I do at times find the experience lacking (I have a medium grade 7.1 sound system so the sound is very good). I actually find a good full screen OTA TV show can provide a better "experience" than lots of blu-ray movies. If I were buying a TV today it would be a 65 inch one.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:53 PM   #183
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Netflex problems

Hope this helps. I had the same problem with Netflex on my tivo premiere 4 with the resolution changing causing the TV to black out for a few seconds at a time
making it impossible to watch.

Changing the setting in my Denon receiver eliminated the problem.
The setting is under the HDMI set up. Turning the i/p scaler setting to off completely fixed my problems.

Now the high definition Netflex is a thing of beauty on the Tivo.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:06 PM   #184
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Turning the i/p scaler setting to off completely fixed my problems.

Now the high definition Netflex is a thing of beauty on the Tivo.
The scaler in your AVR was causing the problem? That your TV can handle the switch without a bobble is impressive. What is it?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:28 PM   #185
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The TV is a 4 year old Samsung 52" LCD.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #186
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I personally love the new Netflix app, the entire interface looks exactly consistent with the PS3 Netflix app. I only wish it would launch faster but that's probably a limitation of the TiVo using only half of the dual core processor.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:39 PM   #187
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I've tried the Netflix app on the TiVo. It's close to unusable because of speed. If you want to just skip it, pay the $100 and get an Apple TV or Roku (I assume Roku supports Netflix and is quick).

I can testify that the Apple TV Netflix interface is both nice and quick.

The TiVo Netflix interface is like working with the online world through an interface of molasses.

Also interesting: I remember the CEO of TiVo a few years back giving an interview and telling us all that his vision was that the TiVo was going to be the end-all, be-all interface to getting our video content (cable & internet).

To the CEO: This is a failure. The interfaces are slow as crap and, while not your fault, the end user ends up with Hulu+ and paying for limited shows that he'd otherwise get w/o question via a computer. It's stupid.

TiVo as an interface to the cable company works quite well. TiVo as an interface to anything else is a failure.
I've used the Roku 2 XS and ended up returning it for the specific fact that it didn't output Dolby Digital 5.1 on Netflix content that had Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 audio, would get a "audio format is not supported" message from my television. My only option was to set the audio output to Dolby Stereo for everything which defeated the purpose of surround sound in the first place.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:56 PM   #188
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I personally love the new Netflix app, the entire interface looks exactly consistent with the PS3 Netflix app. I only wish it would launch faster but that's probably a limitation of the TiVo using only half of the dual core processor.
Tivo has used both cores for well over a year now
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #189
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I've used the Roku 2 XS and ended up returning it for the specific fact that it didn't output Dolby Digital 5.1 on Netflix content that had Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 audio...
That's DD+ 5.1 in Netflix; VUDU has some DD+ 7.1 content, also passed through by a Roku untouched.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:42 PM   #190
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Tivo has used both cores for well over a year now
When I spoke to tier 2 support they said that the Premiere was still only using half of the core which is why it's so slow. I also haven't read anything on their website saying that they started using both cores completely. If there is anything to read I'd love to read it.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:44 PM   #191
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That's DD+ 5.1 in Netflix; VUDU has some DD+ 7.1 content, also passed through by a Roku untouched.
Mmm the only two audio options I had in the Roku setup was Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 and Stereo. Every time I tried playing Dolby Digital surround sound in Netflix I'd get no audio and the notice message from the tv about unsupported audio format. When I played the same titles on the PS3 and TiVo I'd have no problem.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:50 AM   #192
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Mmm the only two audio options I had in the Roku setup was Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 and Stereo. Every time I tried playing Dolby Digital surround sound in Netflix I'd get no audio and the notice message from the tv about unsupported audio format. When I played the same titles on the PS3 and TiVo I'd have no problem.
There are two audio options in Roku's settings, being "5.1 surround" and "stereo"; Dolby isn't mentioned at all, nor 7.1. You won't find Dolby mentioned in their UI or in any of their documentation; it is mentioned in channel UIs, but Roku generally has nothing to do with them. They don't license Dolby tech, saving on per unit materials cost. If they did, they could process the Dolby Digital Plus (aka E-AC-3) into basic Dolby Digital (AC-3); the conversion is supposedly simple and computationally lightweight. Most other streaming platforms have to license Dolby for other purposes (BD players, game consoles, TiVo). AFAIK, the only Roku channels to use DD+ are Netflix and VUDU. Amazon, HBO Go, Blockbuster and other channels with 5.1 sound use basic DD.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:35 AM   #193
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When I spoke to tier 2 support they said that the Premiere was still only using half of the core which is why it's so slow. I also haven't read anything on their website saying that they started using both cores completely. If there is anything to read I'd love to read it.
Dont know what to tell you about Tier 2. Second Core was turned on during the Fall 2011 update. If you search on the forum you may find the release notes here The CPU only being half turned on/fully turned on has never been listed on there website
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:16 AM   #194
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There are two audio options in Roku's settings, being "5.1 surround" and "stereo"; Dolby isn't mentioned at all, nor 7.1. You won't find Dolby mentioned in their UI or in any of their documentation; it is mentioned in channel UIs, but Roku generally has nothing to do with them. They don't license Dolby tech, saving on per unit materials cost. If they did, they could process the Dolby Digital Plus (aka E-AC-3) into basic Dolby Digital (AC-3); the conversion is supposedly simple and computationally lightweight. Most other streaming platforms have to license Dolby for other purposes (BD players, game consoles, TiVo). AFAIK, the only Roku channels to use DD+ are Netflix and VUDU. Amazon, HBO Go, Blockbuster and other channels with 5.1 sound use basic DD.
You're probably right. I know when I was using Amazon on demand I was receiving the Dolby signal (television has a Dolby D in the info bar when receiving a Dolby signal) But when I would go into Netflix and choose a program that had Dolby Digital Plus and boom no audio at all unless I chose Stereo.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:02 PM   #195
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Lately I get V301 errors trying to start Netflix on Premieres which only a reboot of the TiVo resolves. Meanwhile the S3 OLED unit has no problems at all with Netflix during the same period...
Haven't seen a response to this yet, and it's the same problem I'm having. I'd like to know if there's a way to get that working that's not rebooting the Tivo.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:43 AM   #196
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Dont know what to tell you about Tier 2. Second Core was turned on during the Fall 2011 update. If you search on the forum you may find the release notes here The CPU only being half turned on/fully turned on has never been listed on there website
Actually I found out about the half core issue from this forum way back in 2010, however upon working with TiVo on several issues my customers have been having it was discovered that both cores were activated upon one of the 2012 software updates.

Last edited by Mike-Wolf : 03-24-2013 at 01:34 AM. Reason: apples
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:45 PM   #197
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The Pause Issue

Back to the pause issue: there's a delay after you press pause before it pauses. Why?

If the issue is a round trip to a distant server, there's a solution. Pause immediately at the local box. Then (after it's paused) figure out where the server sits. Rewind the server so it starts from the right place.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:57 PM   #198
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Getting the same v103 errors on our Premier XL too. Frankly have given up on TiVo ever getting Netflix right.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:03 PM   #199
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Back to the pause issue: there's a delay after you press pause before it pauses. Why?
It's a bug. Netflix on my Sony BDP-S390 Blu-ray disc player has the same bug. Other players that I have (PS3, Roku 2, Roku 3, Panasonic BD player, Xbox and this PC) don't have it. There's no point in trying to diagnose the bug without any detailed knowledge of the internals of Netflix streaming.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:59 PM   #200
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It's a bug. Netflix on my Sony BDP-S390 Blu-ray disc player has the same bug. Other players that I have (PS3, Roku 2, Roku 3, Panasonic BD player, Xbox and this PC) don't have it. There's no point in trying to diagnose the bug without any detailed knowledge of the internals of Netflix streaming.
So if the S390 has it then I guessing the S590 does too. I guess another reason I'm glad I picked up the S5100. It does not have a pause problem. I think my days of using Netflix on my TiVos are over for now. I'll probably revisit it again when updated TiVo hardware is released. So either when the Mini gets Netflix or the six tuner box is released.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:29 PM   #201
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Like others I was having trouble getting consistent 1080p/24 out of TiVo Netflix and suffered through resolution changes a lot. Today in my Netflix account I discovered under my account settings->Manage video quality none of the 3 options was selected (options are good, better, best). So I enabled "best" quality and lo and behold I watched 5 episodes of Breaking Bad without being interrupted by resolution changes. Playback now starts at 720p and then quickly goes to 1080p/24 and stays there for duration. So either it's a big coincidence that things got better or that setting actually does something to help TiVo Netflix.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:50 PM   #202
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Like others I was having trouble getting consistent 1080p/24 out of TiVo Netflix and suffered through resolution changes a lot. Today in my Netflix account I discovered under my account settings->Manage video quality none of the 3 options was selected (options are good, better, best). So I enabled "best" quality and lo and behold I watched 5 episodes of Breaking Bad without being interrupted by resolution changes. Playback now starts at 720p and then quickly goes to 1080p/24 and stays there for duration. So either it's a big coincidence that things got better or that setting actually does something to help TiVo Netflix.
That setting controls how much bandwidth Netflix uses (for people with broadband caps). As far as I'm aware the default, unless you've changed it in the past, is Best.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:43 PM   #203
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If it'd been set below "Best" you'd never have received 1080 res, at all. "Better" limits it to bandwidth that won't get you the best SD encode. It limits you to 1555 Kbps and the best SD encode is 1750 Kbps (2134 Kbps with 5.1 sound). They need to change those ranges up and add a new one to lock out "Super HD" for those who don't find it enough of an improvement over the "regular" 1080p to warrant the 50% increase in bandwidth consumption.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:56 PM   #204
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That setting controls how much bandwidth Netflix uses (for people with broadband caps). As far as I'm aware the default, unless you've changed it in the past, is Best.
As I said when I checked it none of the options were selected, which probably means the whole dynamic range was being used for streaming. Perhaps by selecting one of the options it limits the dynamic range a little, or could just be coincidence. Time will tell if behavior reverts back to what I was seeing before with lots of dropping in and out of 1080p/24.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:27 AM   #205
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I think it was a coincidence. With a setting of anything other than "Best" the best video you'll get is the 1050 Kbps 640x480 encode. I have no idea what you mean by "the whole dynamic range". Adaptive bit rate streamers always use all of the component video encodes if necessary; that Manage Video Quality setting just limits the highest bit rate one that you can use; "Best" is essentially unlimited.

I left that setting untouched for years until I was desperately trying to debug a problem (of course, setting it didn't help).
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:38 AM   #206
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If it'd been set below "Best" you'd never have received 1080 res, at all. "Better" limits it to bandwidth that won't get you the best SD encode. It limits you to 1555 Kbps and the best SD encode is 1750 Kbps (2134 Kbps with 5.1 sound). They need to change those ranges up and add a new one to lock out "Super HD" for those who don't find it enough of an improvement over the "regular" 1080p to warrant the 50% increase in bandwidth consumption.
Certainly hope this doesn't happen. It's bad enough people don't understand the settings that are already there....
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:35 AM   #207
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Certainly hope this doesn't happen. It's bad enough people don't understand the settings that are already there....
The setting was basically put there for Canadians because of the Canadian ISPs ridiculously low overage caps (as low as 2 GB per month). The lowest cap in the U.S. is AT&T's 150 GB cap which is high enough to stream dozens of movies and TV shows a month at the "Best" setting.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:16 PM   #208
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The lowest cap in the U.S. is AT&T's 150 GB cap which is high enough to stream dozens of movies and TV shows a month at the "Best" setting.
Not true--Cox San Diego has a different cap for each network service tier (see this). The 1 Mbps down/384 Kbps up "Starter" tier has a 50 GB/month combined cap (down+up), the 3M/768K "Essential" tier has a 100 GB cap and the 3 tiers above that have 250-, 300- and 400 GB caps. My 25M/2M "Premiere" tier has a 300 GB/month cap; I rarely use more than half of it and I'm hardly the typical user. But that cap might be strained if I were sharing it with a wife and a couple of teens.

My problem is that Netflix has foisted these Super HD video encodes on us (if your ISP has signed up for access to their Open Connect CDN); the higher Super HD video encode is 5800 Kbps, half again the 3850 Kbps "regular" 1080p encode. I'm not convinced that you get anything significant for that, though there are people with larger screens who swear that the difference is clear to them. In any case, we should be able to set a 4234 Kbps limit (3850 Kbps video + 384 Kbps 5.1 sound, which'd work out to 2 GB/hour) so that they don't scarf down 50% more bandwidth for what may not be any significant improvement in PQ. Right now there's no way to stop it--if there's sufficient bandwidth on your connections to Netflix's servers you will get the Super HD encode, available for nearly all HD titles.

AVS Forum member msgohan compiled a large set of matched screen shots using his HDMI capture card and posted them in his "Netflix PS3 streaming comparison PIX" thread. He posted the same frame of many titles as played from multiple sources (Netflix, Blu-ray, iTunes, Amazon, VUDU, etc) and sometimes multiple quality levels per source. He's promised to collect some new caps for comparison with the originals and to each other. Are the new 3850 Kbps eyeIO-tech encodes actually equivalent to the old 4800 Kbps ones as Netflix claims? Are the 5800 Kbps encodes greatly sharper than the 3850 Kbps ones? I'm dying for answers to these and other questions.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #209
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As I said when I checked it none of the options were selected, which probably means the whole dynamic range was being used for streaming. Perhaps by selecting one of the options it limits the dynamic range a little, or could just be coincidence. Time will tell if behavior reverts back to what I was seeing before with lots of dropping in and out of 1080p/24.
Time has spoken and yes turns out it was just a coincidence as last night there were many jumps from 1080p/24 to 720p. Got so bad I had to turn off 1080p/24 and then I got a consistent 1080i feed without interruption. Not a big deal as on a 42" TV I don't really see much difference between 1080p and 1080i anyway.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:52 AM   #210
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...I don't really see much difference between 1080p and 1080i anyway.
Note that you are getting the 1080p24 encode, it's just converting it to 1080i30. It does the same sort of thing to the 720p24 encode, displaying it as 720p60.
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