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Old 04-02-2013, 06:51 AM   #121
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re Carl and the kid -
the kid is running he has the rifle in his right hand not cocked and pointed
Hershel and Carl tell him to drop the gun
the kid says 'here take it'
He doesn't point it at them but he doesn't drop it either.
They could have told him to drop it again but I say Carl is justified also.

re the Gov and friends in the Tombs
someone else pointed it out - 2 smoke bomb grenades are dropped in their midst but how they did that i have no idea

when they are running out - Maggie and Glenn are the only 2 shooting at them

after they leave Michonne, Rick, Carol and Daryl appear

what the heck were those 4 doing during that time?

lastly - i have to say i think they killed Andrea for the sake of killing Andrea - this was the first major character death that seemed to happen for no good reason for me.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:56 AM   #122
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I have a question: Carl says to Rick that Rick didn't kill Andrew; and Andrew came back to kill Lori (he said "mom").

huh? I thought Lori died at childbirth and Carl shot her so she doesn't turn. Who is Andrew and what is Carl talking about?
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:59 AM   #123
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lastly - i have to say i think they killed Andrea for the sake of killing Andrea - this was the first major character death that seemed to happen for no good reason for me.
I'd be curious to hear your reasoning behind this statement.

In my opinion Andrea's death was textbook "tragedy"... she had a fatal flaw (her desire to save everyone's life which ultimately caused more death, even her own) and paid the price for it. Classic Greek tragedy stuff.

You could argue that the old guy with the RV (forget his name) from Season 1 was a "no good reason" death. The only reasoning behind his killing (thematically I mean... of course there are always random deaths in the ZA) was to provide a counter-point to Shane's death (since they were on opposite ends of the survivalist's spectrum).
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:02 AM   #124
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I have a question: Carl says to Rick that Rick didn't kill Andrew; and Andrew came back to kill Lori (he said "mom").

huh? I thought Lori died at childbirth and Carl shot her so she doesn't turn. Who is Andrew and what is Carl talking about?

Yeah, that was confusing.

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Were people actually expecting this episode to be a showdown between Rick and the Governor, with the Governor ultimately being killed? I definitely figured the Governor would not be killed off so quickly, so I wasn't expecting that. I wonder if people who were expecting that were more underwhelmed by this episode than those that weren't expecting it.
The only thing I was expecting was better writing! Seriously, I wasn't "expecting" anything.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:03 AM   #125
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I'd be curious to hear your reasoning behind this statement.

In my opinion Andrea's death was textbook "tragedy"... she had a fatal flaw (her desire to save everyone's life which ultimately caused more death, even her own) and paid the price for it. Classic Greek tragedy stuff.

You could argue that the old guy with the RV (forget his name) from Season 1 was a "no good reason" death. The only reasoning behind his killing (thematically I mean... of course there are always random deaths in the ZA) was to provide a counter-point to Shane's death (since they were on opposite ends of the survivalist's spectrum).
I thought they killed her off because she was no good with tools.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:11 AM   #126
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I'd be curious to hear your reasoning behind this statement.
What I perhaps meant to say is that it was unsatisfying.
I feel like the writers did it for shock season ending value more than anything else.

I dunno maybe it's because it's one of a few major character deaths we didn't see on screen.

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Who is Andrew and what is Carl talking about?
Thank you - I wanted to ask that also!
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:11 AM   #127
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I thought they killed her off because she was no good with tools.
For me showAndrea was simply too stupid to live.
I hated the character and hated the actress and was delighted to see her die because of her own stupidity.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:18 AM   #128
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I have a question: Carl says to Rick that Rick didn't kill Andrew; and Andrew came back to kill Lori (he said "mom").

huh? I thought Lori died at childbirth and Carl shot her so she doesn't turn. Who is Andrew and what is Carl talking about?
Andrew was the con Rick chased outside when Tomas turned on him. Andrew wasn't killed by walkers, and started the zombie attack that killed T-Dog.

As to Carl blaming Andrew, Carol was practicing C-sections in case Hershel wasn't able to do it. But because of Andrew's zombie attack, they were scattered around the prison, and Lori went into labor without the people prepared to help her.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:36 AM   #129
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For me showAndrea was simply too stupid to live.
I hated the character and hated the actress and was delighted to see her die because of her own stupidity.
"stupidity"... "fatal flaw"...
to-may-oes/to-mah-toes

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Andrew was the con Rick chased outside when Tomas turned on him. Andrew wasn't killed by walkers, and started the zombie attack that killed T-Dog.

As to Carl blaming Andrew, Carol was practicing C-sections in case Hershel wasn't able to do it. But because of Andrew's zombie attack, they were scattered around the prison, and Lori went into labor without the people prepared to help her.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:12 AM   #130
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I thought it was a good finale if not completely satisfying. I thought for sure someone was gonna step up and kill the governor when he started shooting his own people but the writers couldn't let someone so significant be killed by someone so insignificant.
Also, did we ever find out who drove the truck (zombie bomb) into the prison a few episodes back? What was the point of hiding their identity?
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:13 AM   #131
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As much as I still don't love Carl, I think the old guy was wrong. Carl told the guy to DROP the gun - not edge toward him, acting like he's going to hand him the gun. Drop the gun means drop the gun and nothing else. Kill or be killed...
This. I'm still in the camp that doesn't like Carl (or the actor), but I will give him this -- he took some bad ass pills this season and they kicked in nicely....
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:16 AM   #132
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Also, did we ever find out who drove the truck (zombie bomb) into the prison a few episodes back? What was the point of hiding their identity?
I'm not sure his/her identity was being hidden, so much as he/she was dressed/armored for zombie-wrangling...
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:54 AM   #133
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I'm not sure his/her identity was being hidden, so much as he/she was dressed/armored for zombie-wrangling...
And to protect him/her from the bullets that were going to be flying as soon as s/he got out of the truck.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:11 AM   #134
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....It was a seriously touching moment for my new main girl Michonne though. You really got to see how much Andrea meant to her...
Agreed....one of the few emotional moments in this series.

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Speaking of Michonne, I couldn't help but notice Rick giving her the eyeball undressing when he was telling her that she was welcome to stay with the group. I guess somebody quit seeing his dead wife cause there is a real world booty call on the near horizon.
Wow...I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got that vibe. Does that make me a dirty old man?
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:13 AM   #135
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They also mentioned it on The Talking Dead.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #136
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Were people actually expecting this episode to be a showdown between Rick and the Governor, with the Governor ultimately being killed? I definitely figured the Governor would not be killed off so quickly, so I wasn't expecting that. I wonder if people who were expecting that were more underwhelmed by this episode than those that weren't expecting it.
I'd say this finale was ant climactic. The Gov wasn't defeated, beaten, by Rick. Instead the Gov defeated himself by being too arrogant, and taking noobs with him on his witch hunt. Rick & co. still need to be worried about the Gov.. Status quo remains.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:24 AM   #137
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Were people actually expecting this episode to be a showdown between Rick and the Governor, with the Governor ultimately being killed? I definitely figured the Governor would not be killed off so quickly, so I wasn't expecting that. I wonder if people who were expecting that were more underwhelmed by this episode than those that weren't expecting it.
Plus it was a VERY poorly kept secret that the Guv was signed through next season...
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:55 AM   #138
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Plus it was a VERY poorly kept secret that the Guv was signed through next season...
Although that doesn't really mean anything...contracts can always be canceled by the network. That's why nearly everybody has a seven-year contract at the beginning of a series...so the network can have them if they want them. I bet, e.g., that Laurie Holden's contract still had years to go when they killed her.

Knowing how seat-of-the-pants Walking Dead is, I wouldn't be surprised if they signed him for two years because they just didn't know how long they wanted him for, and given how this season ended, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make the decision to keep him for another year until quite late in the game.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:00 AM   #139
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You would think shows would "sign" someone for multi-years but tell them that it's really one year. Do that to keep it from leaking out.

I wonder if that happens, or if the real years still get leaked out when they are looking or getting more work on other projects before it airs.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:08 AM   #140
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You would think shows would "sign" someone for multi-years but tell them that it's really one year. Do that to keep it from leaking out.
As an actor you'd expect me to sign (what I think is) a one year contract when it's really a 7 year contract???
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:47 AM   #141
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Although that doesn't really mean anything...contracts can always be canceled by the network. That's why nearly everybody has a seven-year contract at the beginning of a series...so the network can have them if they want them. I bet, e.g., that Laurie Holden's contract still had years to go when they killed her.

Knowing how seat-of-the-pants Walking Dead is, I wouldn't be surprised if they signed him for two years because they just didn't know how long they wanted him for, and given how this season ended, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make the decision to keep him for another year until quite late in the game.
So agree with this. They know how much they need to pay an actor to cancel a contract early and work that into the budget. No problem. I'm sure they did something similar with Lennie James.

Speaking of which, I hope they revisit the booby traps Morgan built. They covered one in Talking Dead not seen in that episode which needs to be implemented in the prison now that everyone is there. Also, I detected a little Michonne feeling (or at least empathizing with) Rick in that episode. She must have felt like a chump when she heard he wanted to turn her over to the monster.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:21 PM   #142
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I wish this show had less showcrap stuff. It was great at the beginning, but ever since the first season it's been lurching down and up, but more generally down.
Clearly the show needs..... BRAINS!!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:43 PM   #143
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So agree with this. They know how much they need to pay an actor to cancel a contract early and work that into the budget.
I'm not sure they even have to pay anything. My understanding is that a seven-year contract (e.g.) is in practical terms a one-year contract with 6 annual options for the studio.

In a sense, this sucks for the actors, who might become huge stars on a show and have a contract for seven years at scale. But in reality, contracts are pretty easy for actors to walk away from as well in that studios rarely try to force an actor to stay against his will (what kind of performance would you expect?), and are open to renegotiation to keep their actors happy, which happens all the time.

As for Lennie James, I suspect he was just a guest star for that one episode.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:23 PM   #144
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As an actor you'd expect me to sign (what I think is) a one year contract when it's really a 7 year contract???
No, they would tell him, but on paper it would be more years, to not tip their hand about a character getting killed off

-Or what Rob said covers it
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:09 PM   #145
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re Carl and the kid -
the kid is running he has the rifle in his right hand not cocked and pointed
Hershel and Carl tell him to drop the gun
the kid says 'here take it'
He doesn't point it at them but he doesn't drop it either.
They could have told him to drop it again but I say Carl is justified also.
  1. I thought his act of "handing" it to Carl was turning the barrel towards Carl while keeping his hand in firing position.
  2. Was it 'Here, take it?' or 'I'll hand it to you.'? In either case, answering with a sentence made it seem like he was pulling something, not too surprised to drop it quickly.
Carl should lead the group next year.


I find it hard to imagine an interesting show with the group dynamics of caring for a such a large group of untrained people. They'll need some type of scattering incident like when they left the farm.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:53 PM   #146
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I think the reason the group is so large is so they have plenty of folks they can kill off in next season's opener. No way are they keeping the group that large.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:55 PM   #147
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I think the reason the group is so large is so they have plenty of folks they can kill off in next season's opener. No way are they keeping the group that large.
They could do it like Lost (40 or so survivors, only care about 10 of them). Then eventually do to the others what they did to them on Lost (kill them off, dispose of them).
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:39 PM   #148
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Just a joke pic about the governor snapping.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:42 PM   #149
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  1. I thought his act of "handing" it to Carl was turning the barrel towards Carl while keeping his hand in firing position.
  2. Was it 'Here, take it?' or 'I'll hand it to you.'? In either case, answering with a sentence made it seem like he was pulling something, not too surprised to drop it quickly.
He said "here, take it." I just re-watched that part. The barrel was not pointed towards Carl. It was pointed at an angle to the right. His eyes were shifting between Hershel and Carl.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:46 PM   #150
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Just a joke pic about the governor snapping.
That's hilarious!

Because it's true!
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