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Old 03-25-2013, 01:32 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
A configurable setting is what is really needed to please everyone as already discussed, including option for no timeout.
+1. Many times I have live sports on while I'm doing other things. I'm more "monitoring" as opposed to "watching". This is when I've experienced the timeout and it is annoying.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:56 AM   #32
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Last night I had live TV on while reading the paper. After 90 minutes, a message popped up that said:

"Are you still there? Press OK to continue viewing."

I pressed OK and it continued live TV. Not sure how long the message would have stayed on the screen as I noticed it immediately and cleared it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:26 AM   #33
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Last night I had live TV on while reading the paper. After 90 minutes, a message popped up that said:

"Are you still there? Press OK to continue viewing."

I pressed OK and it continued live TV. Not sure how long the message would have stayed on the screen as I noticed it immediately and cleared it.
I have called TiVo about this and it would help if others also called TiVo about this 90 minutes sleep time out, the only reason I think TiVo did this is to stop using network resources if nobody is watching, it should be user controlled, on/off or set up your own time. A good place to use the Mini would be the bedroom for people who want to sleep with the TV on, can't use the Mini for that. I don't think future dynamic tuner control has anything to do with the time out, as a normal TiVo just gives you a message that a recording is going to start, the default is for the recording to start and the channel will change, or you can take some action to stop the recording, I think the Mini will work like that when this option is, or ever ready.

So please call TiVo
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:51 AM   #34
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The reason that they did it is that if you leave a TiVo Mini on watching Live TV as many of you are describing it will tie that tuner up indefinitely without a timeout.

Which means that if someone wants to watch Live TV from another Mini they will have to go to the Mini in question (hours or days later potentially) and put it back in the TiVo menu in order to release the tuner.

I suspect that the 90 minute timeout is also there to lay the groundwork for dynamic tuner allocation. How exactly can the main TiVo know that a tuner is available to record if all of the Minis are tuned to Live TV and no human is there watching them?

While the timeout might be annoying and should be configurable it is actually pretty clear why it is there.

There will never be an option for "never time out".
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:06 PM   #35
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There's a very simple solution to this, but it would require a hardware change to the TiVo mini:

Bundle with the TiVo mini a current-sensing ring; this would be a ring that snaps around the TV's AC power cord and would have a 1/8", two-conductor plug that would plug into the TiVo mini. It could detect if the TV is powered on or off--if the TV is on, the stream keeps going. If the TV is turned off, the stream is stopped to conserve network bandwidth and power.

Almost all of us here have two current-sensing rings at home: one on each phase in the electric meter.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:09 PM   #36
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There's a very simple solution to this, but it would require a hardware change to the TiVo mini:

Bundle with the TiVo mini a current-sensing ring; this would be a ring that snaps around the TV's AC power cord and would have a 1/8", two-conductor plug that would plug into the TiVo mini. It could detect if the TV is powered on or off--if the TV is on, the stream keeps going. If the TV is turned off, the stream is stopped to conserve network bandwidth and power.

Almost all of us here have two current-sensing rings at home: one on each phase in the electric meter.
That's actually an excellent solution.... however I can see why TiVo won't do it. The last thing they want to do is provide tech support for people installing these (as simple as it is people will hose it up)... or God forbid, suing TiVo for damages when they manage to damage the cord on their TiVo or manage to electrocute themselves.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:20 PM   #37
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What if TV is being used for another device on a different input and/or you are going through an AMP? There's too many configurations that will violate basic assumptions for any such solution. I say empower the user to set the timeout option as desired - a simple and software only solution.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:31 PM   #38
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What if TV is being used for another device on a different input and/or you are going through an AMP? There's too many configurations that will violate basic assumptions for any such solution. I say empower the user to set the timeout option as desired - a simple and software only solution.
True, I'd want the timeout to be a user-adjustable solution. I just had the theory that it would be cool for there to be a dry-contact input that could be used to tell the TiVo mini, if the user so desires, "If this contact is open, don't stream". The user could then use any sort of circuit logic, such as closing the contact when the TV or AVR are powered on.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:35 AM   #39
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You could just use a "smart" power strip to kill power to the mini when the TV was off... but unfortunately I think the boot time is too long to make that practical.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:11 PM   #40
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A flaw not a feature

I think the timeout is a terrible idea. As others have said, sometimes you just want the TV on for background. Or maybe to keep a child or pet company. Having to go to the remote every 90 minutes is silly. This should be an option, not mandatory. I called TiVo and they told me it wouldn't be changed. Period. No discussion.

I'm thinking of returning mine as I am in the 30 day return period.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #41
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I think the timeout is a terrible idea. As others have said, sometimes you just want the TV on for background. Or maybe to keep a child or pet company. Having to go to the remote every 90 minutes is silly. This should be an option, not mandatory. I called TiVo and they told me it wouldn't be changed. Period. No discussion.

I'm thinking of returning mine as I am in the 30 day return period.
Preventing a timeout from ever happening means that each Mini will need a tuner ALWAYS (tuner never available for another Mini or for recording). Maybe it should be an option but I think the timeout is understandable for the current configuration they are offering.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:59 PM   #42
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Preventing a timeout from ever happening means that each Mini will need a tuner ALWAYS (tuner never available for another Mini or for recording). Maybe it should be an option but I think the timeout is understandable for the current configuration they are offering.
It should be an option but is home network use for the Mini 24/7 that had TiVo put in the 90 minutes sleep mode, how many people would go to the trouble of putting the Mini in sleep mode before they left the room.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:03 PM   #43
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It should be an option but is home network use for the Mini 24/7 that had TiVo put in the 90 minutes sleep mode, how many people would go to the trouble of putting the Mini in sleep mode before they left the room.
I think we are saying the same thing. The reason there is a "timeout" mode is because people very often walk away from a TV without ever exiting out of live TV viewing.

In the case of the Mini this would result in a tuner being more or less permanently hijacked by the Mini unless it was being used to watch a recording.

The timeout might be frustrating to some users, but it serves an important function, freeing up a tuner after a certain period of time for use by other Minis... or, eventually for recording (when dynamic tuner allocation is delivered).

I agree that TiVo should make it a user selectable duration, but the problem with a "never timeout" option is that people will set this, then not understanding what it actually does, complain when they don't have free tuners for other Minis in the home, or to do recordings.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:10 PM   #44
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I think we are saying the same thing. The reason there is a "timeout" mode is because people very often walk away from a TV without ever exiting out of live TV viewing.

In the case of the Mini this would result in a tuner being more or less permanently hijacked by the Mini unless it was being used to watch a recording.

The timeout might be frustrating to some users, but it serves an important function, freeing up a tuner after a certain period of time for use by other Minis... or, eventually for recording (when dynamic tuner allocation is delivered).

I agree that TiVo should make it a user selectable duration, but the problem with a "never timeout" option is that people will set this, then not understanding what it actually does, complain when they don't have free tuners for other Minis in the home, or to do recordings.
I don't have two Minis but I though with 2 Minis I had to give up two tuners on my TP-4, each Mini is locked to a TP-4 tuner, that tuner can't be used for anything but the Mini locked to it. Dynamic tuner allocation has nothing to do with this time out, when we get dynamic tuner allocation, what will happen is the same thing that happens now on any TiVo that is on Live TV and that channel is needed for an upcoming recording, you get a warning that the channel will change and if you want you could say no and the program will not record, I assume the same thing will happen with the Mini.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:16 PM   #45
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I don't have two Minis but I though with 2 Minis I had to give up two tuners on my TP-4, each Mini is locked to a TP-4 tuner, that tuner can't be used for anything but the Mini locked to it. Dynamic tuner allocation has nothing to do with this time out, when we get dynamic tuner allocation, what will happen is the same thing that happens now on any TiVo that is on Live TV and that channel is needed for an upcoming recording, you get a warning that the channel will change and if you want you could say no and the program will not record, I assume the same thing will happen with the Mini.
No, that's not the way it works. On 4 tuner unit you specify how many tuners you want to allocate for live TV viewing on Minis. If you only set it to 1 and you have 2 Minis then 1st come, 1st served basis only 1 Mini can do live TV at a time. I fully expect if/when dynamic tuning is available that this timeout will still be in place, though still would be better with option to change timeout and turn it off if desired.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:17 PM   #46
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I don't have two Minis but I though with 2 Minis I had to give up two tuners on my TP-4, each Mini is locked to a TP-4 tuner, that tuner can't be used for anything but the Mini locked to it. Dynamic tuner allocation has nothing to do with this time out, when we get dynamic tuner allocation, what will happen is the same thing that happens now on any TiVo that is on Live TV and that channel is needed for an upcoming recording, you get a warning that the channel will change and if you want you could say no and the program will not record, I assume the same thing will happen with the Mini.
What you say is correct if you have assigned enough tuners to cover all of your Minis.

What happens if you have more Minis than you have tuners allocated? Now you have trouble.

It could be solved if TiVo implemented the ability to "hijack" another Mini. You go to watch Live TV and are asked if you want to rob a tuner from another Mini, and then that Mini gets a warning that you took the tuner.

Could result in some rather interesting family fights, at least until they put some kind of rights management system in there.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:50 PM   #47
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No, that's not the way it works. On 4 tuner unit you specify how many tuners you want to allocate for live TV viewing on Minis. If you only set it to 1 and you have 2 Minis then 1st come, 1st served basis only 1 Mini can do live TV at a time. I fully expect if/when dynamic tuning is available that this timeout will still be in place, though still would be better with option to change timeout and turn it off if desired.
I have one Mini now and one tuner on one TP-4 locked off for that Mini, are you saying if I got another Mini I could also lock the new Mini to the same TP-4 tuner, for me that does not compute because if someone stops watching Mini #1 and 20 minutes later someone goes to Mini #2 they would have to wait another 70 minutes for Live TV to work, or go back to Mini #1 and manual put it to sleep, I don't have a 2nd Mini but I would surprised if that the way TiVo has 2 Minis work in your home.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:59 PM   #48
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I have one Mini now and one tuner on one TP-4 locked off for that Mini, are you saying if I got another Mini I could also lock the new Mini to the same TP-4 tuner, for me that does not compute because if someone stops watching Mini #1 and 20 minutes later someone goes to Mini #2 they would have to wait another 70 minutes for Live TV to work, or go back to Mini #1 and manual put it to sleep, I don't have a 2nd Mini but I would surprised if that the way TiVo has 2 Minis work in your home.
It might not compute, but if you have two Minis (and are sharing one tuner) that is EXACTLY how it works today. If Mini #1 is watching Live TV, and you walk away, Mini #2 can't watch Live TV until Mini #1 times out (or someone walks up to it and puts it back in the TiVo menu)... which is why they have
the time-out interaction in the first place.

A better option would be to allow "force takeover" of a tuner... but in larger households that might have several TiVos this could become problematic because you could take over a tuner that someone is actually watching.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:03 PM   #49
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I have one Mini now and one tuner on one TP-4 locked off for that Mini, are you saying if I got another Mini I could also lock the new Mini to the same TP-4 tuner, for me that does not compute because if someone stops watching Mini #1 and 20 minutes later someone goes to Mini #2 they would have to wait another 70 minutes for Live TV to work, or go back to Mini #1 and manual put it to sleep, I don't have a 2nd Mini but I would surprised if that the way TiVo has 2 Minis work in your home.
That's how I have mine set up. 1 tuner allocated for live TV among 2 Minis. And no I don't have to wait 70 minutes for live TV to work. It releases the tuner if you hit the Tivo button because you have exited live TV.

So say I'm watching live TV on the Mini in the family room. I decide to go to bed so I hit the Tivo button and turn everything off and go upstairs (actually the "off" button macro on my URC does all that for me). I go upstairs and turn the bedroom TV on with Mini #2 and I'm immediately able to watch live TV.

There are never any conflicts in my house because nobody is ever watching live TV in the family room and bedroom at the same time. If anyone is watching live TV while I'm in bed, it's the teenagers watching the P4 in the basement rec room.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #50
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I always hit the TiVo button when I finish watching a Mini. As long as you do that there will be no issues when going to another Mini to watch something.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:16 AM   #51
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That's how I have mine set up. 1 tuner allocated for live TV among 2 Minis. And no I don't have to wait 70 minutes for live TV to work. It releases the tuner if you hit the Tivo button because you have exited live TV.

So say I'm watching live TV on the Mini in the family room. I decide to go to bed so I hit the Tivo button and turn everything off and go upstairs (actually the "off" button macro on my URC does all that for me). I go upstairs and turn the bedroom TV on with Mini #2 and I'm immediately able to watch live TV.

There are never any conflicts in my house because nobody is ever watching live TV in the family room and bedroom at the same time. If anyone is watching live TV while I'm in bed, it's the teenagers watching the P4 in the basement rec room.
But your careful to turn off the family room Mini before going to the bedroom, my wife would never remember to do that, I am lucky if she turns off the TV when she leaves the room. Not having two Minis I concede the point about two Mini sharing one tuner, good information to have.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:07 AM   #52
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But your careful to turn off the family room Mini before going to the bedroom, my wife would never remember to do that, I am lucky if she turns off the TV when she leaves the room. Not having two Minis I concede the point about two Mini sharing one tuner, good information to have.
How do you turn off the Mini?
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:38 AM   #53
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I think the timeout is a terrible idea. As others have said, sometimes you just want the TV on for background. Or maybe to keep a child or pet company. Having to go to the remote every 90 minutes is silly. This should be an option, not mandatory. I called TiVo and they told me it wouldn't be changed. Period. No discussion.
Classic case of Tivo knowing yet again what is best for the user with no option to change the behavior. Regardless of who agrees that the timer should be there or not, the user should be given options. It's not that difficult but apparently not the Tivo Way, just like the silliness of always defaulting to live TV instead of having a screensaver option on main boxes.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:56 AM   #54
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But your careful to turn off the family room Mini before going to the bedroom, my wife would never remember to do that, I am lucky if she turns off the TV when she leaves the room. Not having two Minis I concede the point about two Mini sharing one tuner, good information to have.
I don't have to really be careful about it because my universal remote macro takes care of it for me. But I will grant you that at least until dynamic tuner allocation is implemented, the Mini isn't an elegant solution for every situation.

I have a 4th TV in my office that I will eventually want to add to my whole home system. At certain times I do have that TV and the family room TV on live TV at the same time. So in order to do that I would have to dedicate 2 tuners for Minis. Don't really need to decide until football season
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:50 PM   #55
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How do you turn off the Mini?
Just stop Live TV, hit the TiVo button, turns off Live TV, after 90 minutes the Mini will go to sleep.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:17 PM   #56
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Time Out

The time out feature is a nice feature to have when you're going to sleep by it and want to save energy. I totally get that...

But what about people who are mentally disabled and can't click on the remote every 90 minutes to keep it active?
During night time, what if you're a night owl and stay up until the wee hours of the night and don't want to have to keep hitting the freaking remote every 90 minutes?

TiVo needs to have a setting for you to choose the length of time or completely disable it all together.

This is ridiculous.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:04 PM   #57
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The time out feature is a nice feature to have when you're going to sleep by it and want to save energy. I totally get that...

But what about people who are mentally disabled and can't click on the remote every 90 minutes to keep it active?
During night time, what if you're a night owl and stay up until the wee hours of the night and don't want to have to keep hitting the freaking remote every 90 minutes?

TiVo needs to have a setting for you to choose the length of time or completely disable it all together.

This is ridiculous.
I think ridiculous is a strong word. While I agree that TiVo should offer some adjustment of this value it could be problematic for TiVo to prevent the timeout completely as that would permanently sacrifice a tuner for each mini set this way. Most customers don't understand these things.

Additionally, most users, while watching a TiVo device do not watch a single station for hour upon hour. Most will change the channel, pause live tv or skip a commercial every 90 minutes.

So ya, "ridiculous" is rather strong.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:17 PM   #58
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The TiVo sees when you press TV buttons on your remote. Why doesn't it just keep the stream going until it sees that you have pressed the TV power button? I think the TiVo can safely assume that if you turn off the TV, then you don't need an active stream.

At least make this an option.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:26 PM   #59
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The TiVo sees when you press TV buttons on your remote. Why doesn't it just keep the stream going until it sees that you have pressed the TV power button? I think the TiVo can safely assume that if you turn off the TV, then you don't need an active stream.

At least make this an option.
That sounds easy but it's not. For the TiVo to know the state of power of your TV it has to first learn whether it is on or off, then it needs to know the IR code of your tv. Sometimes you might press the TV power button and the TV doesn't turn on, so you press it a second time, the TiVo might now think the TV is off when you just turned it on. Sometimes you turn it on to do something other than use the TiVo like play a video game. Something with programmatic context driven help like a harmony has a hard time keeping tabs on what the power state of devices look like, would be very difficult for TiVo to do it. Better to offer a longer timer, but people will complain regardless.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:30 PM   #60
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The TiVo sees when you press TV buttons on your remote. Why doesn't it just keep the stream going until it sees that you have pressed the TV power button? I think the TiVo can safely assume that if you turn off the TV, then you don't need an active stream.

At least make this an option.
I think Crispy gave the best answer to this idea in another thread - discussing a concern that the mini keeps the connection too long...

Quote:
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But there isn't a Power Off button, there's only a Power toggle, and TiVo has always assumed that it doesn't know whether the TV is on or off by use of that toggle button. I think that's a wise choice of their's, given the number of times my AV receiver and TV get "out-of-sync" because one of them didn't receive the Power signal. Getting "out-of-sync" with tuner release would be very annoying!

Just pressing the TiVo button will release the tuner. Yes, it's an extra thing to remember, but it will only rarely be important.
Without a reliable HDMI handshake option - timeout is the best solution AFAIAC.

Funny, i haven't bounced against this issue yet... But don't fall asleep in front of the TV.
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