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View Poll Results: MOCA and POE Filter
Yes there is a POE filter installed 53 64.63%
No there is not a POE filter installed 29 35.37%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2013, 04:15 PM   #31
Dan203
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In your case I would put it on the output side of the 2-way splitter that goes toward the rooms. That way you block the MoCa signal from getting to your cable modem and the outside world all in one shot.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:51 PM   #32
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Where's the best place to buy one of these? Through TiVo, with shipping, it's like $18.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:52 PM   #33
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I bought one off eBay for $5 shipped.
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:11 PM   #34
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I ordered this one, is this alright?
MoCA POE Extreme FILTER
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MoCA-POE-Ext...item3f234e9136
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:13 PM   #35
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I bought one off eBay for $5 shipped.
Thanks. I just went ahead and ordered this one. Hopefully does what it's supposed to do.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150680042501
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #36
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John, it really doesn't matter. MoCA is fine with a cable modem, but keeping the signal captive to a small area is probably the best for the MoCA's sake.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:53 PM   #37
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I got my MoCA filter. Here's a diagram of my wiring in the house (the coax and ethernet). Am I supposed to connect this outside in-line at the junction highlighted in yellow? Thanks!
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File Type: jpg MoCA Filter Location.jpg (61.1 KB, 87 views)
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:38 PM   #38
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I got my MoCA filter. Here's a diagram of my wiring in the house (the coax and ethernet). Am I supposed to connect this outside in-line at the junction highlighted in yellow? Thanks!
You could put the POE filter in the yellow part of your diagram, but it would just as good to put the filter on the input of the first splitter, I would change splitters to the 2Ghz type as they are not much money and do a better job with Moca.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or this one works well also http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:17 PM   #39
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You could put the POE filter in the yellow part of your diagram, but it would just as good to put the filter on the input of the first splitter, I would change splitters to the 2Ghz type as they are not much money and do a better job with Moca.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or this one works well also http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks. My splitter is in the wall and the extra length of the PoE filter made it tough to put there. I wound up installing it outside. Any way to check that it's doing what it should? I don't notice any speedtest drop or TV picture quality issues, so I'm assuming it's connected well.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:59 AM   #40
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Thanks. My splitter is in the wall and the extra length of the PoE filter made it tough to put there. I wound up installing it outside. Any way to check that it's doing what it should? I don't notice any speedtest drop or TV picture quality issues, so I'm assuming it's connected well.
Looks good to me, the only way I know to test the filter is to put it on the cable input of a TP-4 or Mini and see that the Moca connection can't be made, that is the way I tested my filter before mounting on my cable input.
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:01 PM   #41
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I just installed a POE filter @ the patch panel between where the main Comcast cable feed enters into the splitter.

How do I see if there are any throughput effects?
How can I tell that if there are any signal leakage?
I have Comcast expanded basic package HD, will this "open" up more channels than I subscribed for?
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:32 PM   #42
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I just installed a POE filter @ the patch panel between where the main Comcast cable feed enters into the splitter.

How do I see if there are any throughput effects?
How can I tell that if there are any signal leakage?
I have Comcast expanded basic package HD, will this "open" up more channels than I subscribed for?
This filter is not a cable cheater, as to working, look at my post above (#40) as that the only way I know of testing a POE filter.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:23 PM   #43
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I could be wrong, but I think that only works with the more expensive adapter that has the config switch. The cheaper ones have no interface that I'm aware of.
FYI, the Actiontec MOCA adapters that Tivo sells for the best price I found, have the config switch. TiVo doesn't supply any information on it - wanting it to be plug and play and it is - but you can download full instructions from the Actiontec web site.

http://www.actiontec.com/products/pr...p?pid=251#soft

I didn't see a reason to change anything.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:07 AM   #44
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Thanks to this thread, I purchased a POE filter on eBay and installed it today.

The funny thing was that when I opened the box to install it, there was a POC filter connected to an open output on the splitter. It wasn't connected to anything. My first thought was, 'Damn, wasted $8.' However, it turned out to have stripped threads and appeared that someone previously tried to get it off and couldn't. So, no harm done.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:07 PM   #45
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I had bought a POE, but never installed it. Last time Comcast came out a few months ago, they installed their own POE. They told me they are doing that for all calls whether the customer has MoCa or not in preparation for supporting their "whole home" platform.

I saw no change with it installed as to without it. I have my MoCa devices set up with their own encryption. Quick fact, all MoCa is encrypted, it's just that non-configurable MoCa adapters (and TiVo) all use the same default encryption key.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:32 PM   #46
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Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.
We had Cox install one and then tag the line on the telephone pole so it would not be remove. Took some persuasion to have it done.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:47 PM   #47
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I am confused about where to place the POE filter based upon conflicting information about potential interference with a cable modem. Should the POE filter go at the 2-way splitter or the 4-way splitter? Here is a diagram if my cable setup.

---------Cable Modem (non moca)
/
2-way splitter
|
\---------4-Way Splitter
Room 1 (moca)
Room 2 (moca)
Room 3
Room 4
Ahead of the 4-way splitter would be optimal -- it will keep the MOCA signal out of your Cable Modem, which does not expect it to be present.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:49 PM   #48
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Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.
Good old (or new, depending on how you look at it) Cox in Las Vegas wouldn't give even one up, when I spotted them on a van rack, just before the TA requirement letter came. I was told that the orders were clear and he wouldn't dare defy them. They were for people who had Cox's Whole Home DVR ONLY. He didn't even know what they were, so he let me examine one and I told him what it was. I still couldn't have one.

After picking up six TAs and six self-install kits, there they were, in each self-install kit, identical item, identical frequency specs.

Since I don't use MOCA, I just left them out, while also ignoring the Cox illustration, and not using the splitter, either. The only part in the kit I used was the VERY nice RG6 coax cable. The TAs each came with a RG59 junk cable (you'd think Cisco would know better).

Here's what I don't understand: If all the splitters (including those in the self-install kits, and what I have in use) are rated for 5-1002MHz, why would MOCA pass through any of them? If it can, then I see a reason to put one POE filter at Point Of Entry, and maybe one on the Cable Modem, (even though it should have it's own pass/reject filter, built-in) just to be sure. If the MOCA signals from a neighbor can't pass into my home, due to the splitters, then is there ANY reason to use them at all? Or can MOCA still get through?

I'm well past the date the TAs needed to be installed now, and they still say they aren't doing anything, or receiving anything other than an "empty" channel map. I can disconnect the USB cable, and still get all my channels, even those that show up as H.264. I haven't yet tried taking one back out, just to see if the 903000MHz H.264 channels quit working. They are the channels that have been reported to be H.264, lost by some, who say they are in a non-TA-deployed market.

One thing I HAVE noticed, since installing the TAs, is my cable modem registering lots of correctable errors, on the downstreams. While the signal levels and SNR for each band haven't changed outside their normal fluctuation, I only used to see an occasional correctable error, here and there, over MONTHS of uptime. Now they start ticking up as soon as the modem has rebooted and bonded channel bands. I don't see a POE filter helping, unless the TAs are leaking something into the signal, and the CM is having to deal with it. Installing the TA's, minus additional splitters and POE filters, is the ONLY change I made to my cable infrastructure inside my home. Signal levels & SNR at each connected device are within ~1dB, or ~1 on the TiVo 0-100 strength scale (within the range they were at before the TAs went in, to be more specific). Yet, while I see less rapid fluctuation since the TAs went in, the actual recordings I've been watching are worse than ever.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-24-2013 at 08:23 PM. Reason: clarifications
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:18 PM   #49
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Here's what I don't understand: If all the splitters (including those in the self-install kits, and what I have in use) are rated for 5-1002MHz, why would MOCA pass through any of them? If it can, then I see a reason to put one POE filter at Point Of Entry, and maybe one on the Cable Modem, (even though it should have it's own pass/reject filter, built-in) just to be sure. If the MOCA signals from a neighbor can't pass into my home, due to the splitters, then is there ANY reason to use them at all? Or can MOCA still get through?

I'm well past the date the TAs needed to be installed now, and they still say they aren't doing anything, or receiving anything other than an "empty" channel map. I can disconnect the USB cable, and still get all my channels, even those that show up as H.264. I haven't yet tried taking one back out, just to see if the 903000MHz H.264 channels quit working. They are the channels that have been reported to be H.264, lost by some, who say they are in a non-TA-deployed market.
...
I think MoCa can run in several bands - some below 1000MHz.



Quote:
Supports both the high frequency MoCA D Band used in cable and Verizon FiOS, as well as the mid-range MoCA E Band for DirecTV homes
http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=257
The ActionTec ECB2500C that I got from TiVo would not work on the 1000MHz splitter, but it does on the 1200MHz splitter.

http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=251

Notice that they have Cable (C) and Satellite (B) versions. I expect the difference is the bands MoCa is on. Obviously, they set them up not to interfere with the TV service.

If I can't get the third node to work in the very farthest part of the house that is the original mission I may send the ActionTec MoCa back to TiVo. I'm waiting for an 8-port splitter that should get here tomorrow. i'll use that try some RF terminators.

Oh, great. ActionTec just announced a MoCa/WiFi product to fix the very problem I'm working on: http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-...26-909089.html
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:37 PM   #50
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I think MoCa can run in several bands - some below 1000MHz.





The ActionTec ECB2500C that I got from TiVo would not work on the 1000MHz splitter, but it does on the 1200MHz splitter.

http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=251

Notice that they have Cable (C) and Satellite (B) versions. I expect the difference is the bands MoCa is on. Obviously, they set them up not to interfere with the TV service.

If I can't get the third node to work in the very farthest part of the house that is the original mission I may send the ActionTec MoCa back to TiVo. I'm waiting for an 8-port splitter that should get here tomorrow. i'll use that try some RF terminators.

Oh, great. ActionTec just announced a MoCa/WiFi product to fix the very problem I'm working on: http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-...26-909089.html
Well, the ANTRONIX GLF-1002B1 filters I received with the Self-Install kits have these specs: Reject Band: 1125-3000MHz, Pass Band: 5-1002MHz.

While I was aware of what you posted, thanks for the effort, in trying to help.

The way I see it, these filters should basically do the same as a 5-1002Mhz splitter. Then again, if that were the case, why would the kit contain a 5-1002MHz splitter and a POE filter, that is supposed to be placed on the output leg going to the TA? If they ASSUME you have MOCA and/or ASSUME you have a Cox Whole Home DVR, using MOCA, why would the splitter and POE filter ratings be what they are?

It's my understanding that if you use MOCA, each splitter, pass-through type device, and amp or attenuator, MUST include the MOCA frequencies in it's operation (Pass Band) specs. Am I wrong?

EDIT/ADD: It was always my understanding that the cable/satellite companies don't use the same frequency band(s) that Consumer Grade Retail MOCA networking does. I think it might have even been a requirement, of some sort. It's my understanding that the Cable/Satellite companies may do this so that their MOCA can pass-through existing splitters and network infrastructure (if it can already pass, then nothing needs to be changed). That's a scenario where I could see MOCA wreaking havoc on a consumer's other equipment, if not isolated. But, the POE filters I have received seem to serve only one purpose, keeping consumer MOCA out of THEIR equipment/infrastructure. Thus, since I use MOCA of no form whatsoever, I shouldn't technically/hypothetically need them at all.

The way I see it, the less unnecessary connection points, splitters, pass-thru devices, and pass/reject devices, the better. This means less potential signal drops, SNR effects, bad connections, bad devices, etc. (potential points of failure and/or ingress/egress).

Cox here has one hell of a frequency map on their 1GHz network. Cablecards operate at 73750MHz, but there are cable channels that operate as low as ~54MHz, with quite a few I watch at 69HMz (and they work POORLY). Then there's the H.264 channels that operate at 903MHz, which is above the Cable Modem downstream ranges. Before they started the H.264, ALL channels operated BELOW Cable Modem downstream frequencies.

It's like they just mishmash things together, without any thought of how it may affect the consumer. They need to get their mappings more "zoned". IMHO, too many channels are operating in wherever they could find a place, rather than create a healthy buffer zone between CM, CC, MOCA, and TV frequencies, and keep some consistency in it.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-24-2013 at 09:08 PM. Reason: clarifications
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #51
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I think MoCa can run in several bands - some below 1000MHz.
It can (for example for FIOS users), but MoCa was designed to power it's way through splitters, though if there are a significant number of them, eventually the MoCa signal will degrade enough that it won't be able to get through. That's why it's suggested to use a POE filter at the "point of entry" to keep the signals in your home so your neighbors can't get on your network. Though changing the encryption key (if possible) works as well.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:26 PM   #52
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Well, the ANTRONIX GLF-1002B1 filters I received with the Self-Install kits have these specs: Reject Band: 1125-3000MHz, Pass Band: 5-1002MHz.

While I was aware of what you posted, thanks for the effort, in trying to help.

The way I see it, these filters should basically do the same as a 5-1002Mhz splitter. Then again, if that were the case, why would the kit contain a 5-1002MHz splitter and a POE filter, that is supposed to be placed on the output leg going to the TA? If they ASSUME you have MOCA and/or ASSUME you have a Cox Whole Home DVR, using MOCA, why would the splitter and POE filter ratings be what they are?
...
I don't get why they would supply that 5-1002Mhz splitter unless their MoCA uses frequencies below 1002MHz.

Oh. Are you saying that is the "edge" splitter and they have another with a higher bandpass for the interior network?

I'm saying that I couldn't get the ActionTec MoCA to work over the 02-1000MHz splitter, with the -1500MHz splitter it does.

Funny that there's no mention of this in manuals. I wonder how many mere mortal TiVo subs give up because MoCA nodes, gateways, and the TiVo won't connect.

You give me some more inspiration though. If I still have trouble when I go back to hack I'll try removing the PoE to see if that helps.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:54 PM   #53
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I suggest reading the following presentation on MoCa by the MoCa Alliance. Yes, it's a marketing presentation, but it has a lot of technical info in it.

http://www.mocalliance.org/CEDIA/pre...esentation.pdf

Page 24 talks about bands. D is usually used when using MoCa with cable TV to prevent conflicting with the cable signal. A or B is used with satellite and C is used with FIOS.

Page 29 through 36 talk about POEs and setup and pages 17 and 18 talk about splitters. Really though if you are interested in how MoCa works you should read the whole thing.


My MoCa setup uses D with 1 Ghz splitters and works fine. Some people even have it working with 850 MHz splitters.

The thing about splitters is that they don't block all signals outside their rated frequency, they just have a high impedance for those signals, making it harder to get through. A strong signal or one that's designed to work over a high impedance line, like MoCa, can still make it through.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:11 AM   #54
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I don't get why they would supply that 5-1002Mhz splitter unless their MoCA uses frequencies below 1002MHz.

Oh. Are you saying that is the "edge" splitter and they have another with a higher bandpass for the interior network?

I'm saying that I couldn't get the ActionTec MoCA to work over the 02-1000MHz splitter, with the -1500MHz splitter it does.

Funny that there's no mention of this in manuals. I wonder how many mere mortal TiVo subs give up because MoCA nodes, gateways, and the TiVo won't connect.

You give me some more inspiration though. If I still have trouble when I go back to hack I'll try removing the PoE to see if that helps.
If what you are asking is if the two legs of the splitter have different ratings, the answer is no. They are just plain old everyday splitters, with -3.5dB drop on each leg.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:22 AM   #55
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I suggest reading the following presentation on MoCa by the MoCa Alliance. Yes, it's a marketing presentation, but it has a lot of technical info in it.

http://www.mocalliance.org/CEDIA/pre...esentation.pdf

Page 24 talks about bands. D is usually used when using MoCa with cable TV to prevent conflicting with the cable signal. A or B is used with satellite and C is used with FIOS.

Page 29 through 36 talk about POEs and setup and pages 17 and 18 talk about splitters. Really though if you are interested in how MoCa works you should read the whole thing.


My MoCa setup uses D with 1 Ghz splitters and works fine. Some people even have it working with 850 MHz splitters.

The thing about splitters is that they don't block all signals outside their rated frequency, they just have a high impedance for those signals, making it harder to get through. A strong signal or one that's designed to work over a high impedance line, like MoCa, can still make it through.
morac,

Good link and summary. FIOS uses both WAN and LAN MOCA connections. The C band should be for their WAN installs. Some of their installs use cat5. FIOS also uses LAN MOCA connection for their STBs.
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:10 AM   #56
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Hi guys,

I am new to the world of Tivo and would appreciate any help I could get. I just moved to a new place that has the house basically wired with Cat5 that comes to a patch panel in the master bedroom closet.

I just switched from DirecTV to Cox since I don't have a clear path.

I ran into one problem when I tested all of the panels, the one in the living room downstairs where the main TV would go does not work. So I decided to put the main Tivo Box in the master bedroom and move the Mini Downstairs and use MoCa to get that one singnal since I can't use the network panel there.

So here is the setup I have now, can you please let me know where I would have to put the POE filter to make it all work.

Main Patch panel area has the main cable line coming in. It then goes into a three way splitter. That splitter feeds the modem, the living room panel, and the master bedroom.

In the master bedroom the cable is coming from the wall going into the tuning adapter. Then I have another coax coming from the tuning adapter into the TiVo and of course the USB connected.

I read through everything and I am getting mixed readings on where to put the POE so it doesn't effect the modem etc.

I was thinking I should only have to put the POE on the branch of the main 3 way splitter to the one that is sending signal to the master bedroom. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance for all your help.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:21 AM   #57
morac
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Normally the POE is put right before the very first splitter coming into the house. It can be placed before any splitter in your house as long as all your MoCa devices are somewhere down the line of the legs of those splitters. Basically a POE blocks and reflects MoCa signals, so it needs to be placed such that it won't block the signals in your house. That's why placing it in front of the first splitter is easiest.
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:10 PM   #58
CoxInPHX
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The Cox Tuning Adapter instructions are questionable, as Cox shows putting a POE Filter in-front of the Tuning Adapter, That is probably not needed, but it certainly cannot hurt anything.

Cox is using the frequency spectrum all the way up to 950MHz for the H.264/MPEG-4 channels.
So when using the built in MoCA on the TiVo it is best to use a splitter before the Tuning Adapter, as shown in their documentation, The Cisco Tuning Adapter will not pass MoCA signals.

Cox - Cisco Tuning Adapter Installation

Cox - Motorola Tuning Adapter Installation
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:28 PM   #59
aztivo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
Your Cable provider should be very happy to give one to you. I know Cox does.
Good to know I need to go get one from them
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:44 PM   #60
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How to Open Outside Cable Box?

I would like to install the POE filter at the outside cable point of entry but the trouble is I cannot figure out how to open the cable box (made by Comcast). Is there some sort of trick to opening this thing? Very hard plastic cover that no matter how hard I try to press on each side it refuses to open. Or is calling Comcast the only way to get it open? Thanks.
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