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Old 03-25-2013, 10:13 AM   #31
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Did you increase the size of the swap partition when you embiggened the drive size?
What swap partition should I use, and I assume that I keep the WD10EARS jumper free!

WELL!!! I put back the original drive and it took HOURS to get the software and guide updates! It has now run great for a week, instead of rebooting every other day!

I took out the WD10EARS and ran the WinDLG thru a SATA to USB cable. Here is what I got!

Test Option: QUICK TEST
Model Number: WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
Unit Serial Number:
Firmware Number: 0A80
Capacity: 1000.20 GB
SMART Status: Not Available
Test Result: PASS
Test Time: 18:21:10, March 24, 2013

Test Option: EXTENDED TEST
Model Number: WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
Unit Serial Number:
Firmware Number: 0A80
Capacity: 1000.20 GB
SMART Status: Not Available
Test Result: FAIL
Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.
Test Time: 07:57:59, March 25, 2013

I may try again on my other system with a SATA III MoBo. UBCD 5.2.1 would not see the drive (I guess it has to be on the MoBo). Do you think I should move the drive to the newer system and try writing all zero's?

One issue...minor...with the original drive is that other THD's call it DVR-BE79 instead of BEDROOM, but EVERYTHING works great!

Should I even try to use WinMFS again or is this drive NG, and it did not have any SMART info!
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:24 AM   #32
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What swap partition should I use, and I assume that I keep the WD10EARS jumper free!

WELL!!! I put back the original drive and it took HOURS to get the software and guide updates! It has now run great for a week, instead of rebooting every other day!

I took out the WD10EARS and ran the WinDLG thru a SATA to USB cable. Here is what I got!

Test Option: QUICK TEST
Model Number: WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
Unit Serial Number:
Firmware Number: 0A80
Capacity: 1000.20 GB
SMART Status: Not Available
Test Result: PASS
Test Time: 18:21:10, March 24, 2013

Test Option: EXTENDED TEST
Model Number: WDC WD10 EARS-00Y5B1
Unit Serial Number:
Firmware Number: 0A80
Capacity: 1000.20 GB
SMART Status: Not Available
Test Result: FAIL
Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.
Test Time: 07:57:59, March 25, 2013

I may try again on my other system with a SATA III MoBo. UBCD 5.2.1 would not see the drive (I guess it has to be on the MoBo). Do you think I should move the drive to the newer system and try writing all zero's?

One issue...minor...with the original drive is that other THD's call it DVR-BE79 instead of BEDROOM, but EVERYTHING works great!

Should I even try to use WinMFS again or is this drive NG, and it did not have any SMART info!
If you had it hooked directly to the motherboard instead of via USB it would be able to give you the S.M.A.R.T. data, but don't bother because of this:

Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.

Time to start watching for the WD20EURS to go on sale again, and to find your receipt to see if you have any warranty left on that EARS.

That TiVo name issue, Bedroom versus a chunk of the TSN, should sort itself out in day or three. If not, you can go back to tivo.com and name it again.

That EARS might be semi-salvageable, but it'll never again be trustable.

Wait until you get a new drive to do anything with the EARS, then post back and we'll talk about it.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:15 PM   #33
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Well, I am not sure what I want to do. The problem is that it IS the Bedroom THD and 20 HRS may be OK. I do not think that spending $90+ for a new drive would be worth it. I am going to get P4's when the next deal is available...Mothers Day or Fathers day? I see on eBay that a lifetime 160GB vs. 1TB is only about a $75 difference so I am not sure what I should do at this point. One thought may be to try again on the other system. The reason is that the one I used was a SATA 1 controller and the newer system is SATA 3. The SATA to USB cable I used was also SATA 1 and I did not jumper the drive for SATA 1.

I wonder if there are any low level format programs still available that would write the sector info and map bad sectors? We used to have that...I guess I can look at UBCD.

OH, if I do try WinMFS again, what was the default swap partition size and should we change it?

TIA,
Dave
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #34
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Well, I am not sure what I want to do. The problem is that it IS the Bedroom THD and 20 HRS may be OK. I do not think that spending $90+ for a new drive would be worth it. I am going to get P4's when the next deal is available...Mothers Day or Fathers day? I see on eBay that a lifetime 160GB vs. 1TB is only about a $75 difference so I am not sure what I should do at this point. One thought may be to try again on the other system. The reason is that the one I used was a SATA 1 controller and the newer system is SATA 3. The SATA to USB cable I used was also SATA 1 and I did not jumper the drive for SATA 1.

I wonder if there are any low level format programs still available that would write the sector info and map bad sectors? We used to have that...I guess I can look at UBCD.

OH, if I do try WinMFS again, what was the default swap partition size and should we change it?

TIA,
Dave
A SATA 3 controller should be able to auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 drive, possibly easier and more reliably than a SATA 3 drive can auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 controller.

The DOS based version of the WD diagnostic on the UBCD should be able to re-allocate the bad sectors, giving their addresses to spare sectors that have been unused 'til now, unless there are so many there aren't enough spares to spare.

Although that loses what was in the bad sectors, it's less destructive than writing zeros to the entire drive or whatever.

Go ahead and put the 1TB back in the 652 and watch or transfer those 2 shows and get that out of the way.

Do you have any other spare hard drives lying around?
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:18 PM   #35
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A SATA 3 controller should be able to auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 drive, possibly easier and more reliably than a SATA 3 drive can auto-adjust down to a SATA 1 controller.

The DOS based version of the WD diagnostic on the UBCD should be able to re-allocate the bad sectors, giving their addresses to spare sectors that have been unused 'til now, unless there are so many there aren't enough spares to spare.

Although that loses what was in the bad sectors, it's less destructive than writing zeros to the entire drive or whatever.

Go ahead and put the 1TB back in the 652 and watch or transfer those 2 shows and get that out of the way.

Do you have any other spare hard drives lying around?
There is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need any more. I transferred the 2 shows to a different THD before I ever put the original 160GB drive back in. I do have the BAD WD10EARS running now on the newer system. I am using windlg and it sure does not like what it sees...at least SMART seems to think it is at the limit for about everything. Sometimes when things look so bad, something else is wrong. IF the data in the sector is bad then writing zeros, even with the WINDLG may help. I do not have any spare HDD's around that would be big enough to even matter.

I wonder if WDC has a refurb? I can call them. My warranty ran out 1/2013, but I am sure it was pro-rated anyway!
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:49 PM   #36
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There is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need any more.
Not even Season Passes and cable card pairings?

Make a truncated backup from the 1TB before you wipe it.

Maybe it'll be good, maybe not, depends on where the bad sectors are.

Once you get the original drive set up with the latest version of the TiVo software (11.0k) and whatever else, make a backup of it as well.

Don't get the two backups confused.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:12 PM   #37
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Not even Season Passes and cable card pairings?

Make a truncated backup from the 1TB before you wipe it.

Maybe it'll be good, maybe not, depends on where the bad sectors are.

Once you get the original drive set up with the latest version of the TiVo software (11.0k) and whatever else, make a backup of it as well.

Don't get the two backups confused.
We are getting out of sync here. When I had a good sense from my excel sheet I created that I was getting a reboot every 2 days or so, we started watching the shows that were left. Being the Bedroom THD, there was not that much on there. We were down to a few shows that my wife wanted so I moved them to the DEN.

I then took my ORIGINAl 160GB THD drive and put it back in. I was surprised, many HOURS later, after it got the latest SW and then the Guide Data, the MCard was fine. It even survived going from Verizon FiOS to Frontier FiOS. I added the season passes and all is good now, so, there is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need.

I am still running the extended test on the SATA 3 system, but expect the same issue. That is why I had thought that perhaps a write zeros could help, but if the drive believes it has used all spare sectors, it may not help. Still, how can it be that bad and only reboot when idle? I mean, if it were that bad why did it not reboot while watching live tv, recording a show, or watching from our playlist?


WOW, I just got off the phone with WDC support. They said that it will be worth running write all zeros. IF that still fails, then my warranty ended 1/2013, but they can process a return and replace for 3 months beyond that!
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:45 PM   #38
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We are getting out of sync here. When I had a good sense from my excel sheet I created that I was getting a reboot every 2 days or so, we started watching the shows that were left. Being the Bedroom THD, there was not that much on there. We were down to a few shows that my wife wanted so I moved them to the DEN.

I then took my ORIGINAl 160GB THD drive and put it back in. I was surprised, many HOURS later, after it got the latest SW and then the Guide Data, the MCard was fine. It even survived going from Verizon FiOS to Frontier FiOS. I added the season passes and all is good now, so, there is NOTHING on the "bad" 1TB drive that I need.

I am still running the extended test on the SATA 3 system, but expect the same issue. That is why I had thought that perhaps a write zeros could help, but if the drive believes it has used all spare sectors, it may not help. Still, how can it be that bad and only reboot when idle? I mean, if it were that bad why did it not reboot while watching live tv, recording a show, or watching from our playlist?


WOW, I just got off the phone with WDC support. They said that it will be worth running write all zeros. IF that still fails, then my warranty ended 1/2013, but they can process a return and replace for 3 months beyond that!

Congrats on the extra warranty.

When I'm dealing with the TiVo problems of several posters at the same time, especially when it involves posts spread out over a number of days, my memory of which details go with which person and which of their TiVos can get a bit fuzzy.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:59 PM   #39
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Congrats on the extra warranty.

When I'm dealing with the TiVo problems of several posters at the same time, especially when it involves posts spread out over a number of days, my memory of which details go with which person and which of their TiVos can get a bit fuzzy.
No problem! I understand. I am starting to think that I should try the all zero's test and see what happens, but I am leaning in the direction of "getting a new drive and run". The Theater Room has a drive I bought at the same time. I should check it out!
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:26 PM   #40
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Well, I completed the long test on my SATA 3 system and it said PASSED! I looked at SMART data and it showed I am beyond what they want in a lot of areas, but I got the HIRENS DVD and it is supposed to have better SMART utils. Even 1 that will reset the data. I am thinking, as I write all zero's that I should call WD tomorrow and get more info on the replacement drive. I mean, can they send me a new drive that will not work in the TIVO? Not sure they would have a WD10EARS any more. I let them think that I am using the drive for Windows as I am not sure what they would say about the TIVO.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:12 PM   #41
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Well, I did the all zeros and it still showed all the spare sectors are used. I can call WD and see just what drive they will send me. I mean, I do not believe they have any NEW WD10EARS drives left.

As you said, even if writing zeros did somewhat help, it would be hard to ever trust this drive again, and by then it would be out of warranty, so I sort of have nothing to loose if they send me a drive that will work in the THD!
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:29 PM   #42
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Well, I did the all zeros and it still showed all the spare sectors are used. I can call WD and see just what drive they will send me. I mean, I do not believe they have any NEW WD10EARS drives left.

As you said, even if writing zeros did somewhat help, it would be hard to ever trust this drive again, and by then it would be out of warranty, so I sort of have nothing to loose if they send me a drive that will work in the THD!
Offer to pay them a little extra if they'll send you a WD20EURS.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:54 PM   #43
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Offer to pay them a little extra if they'll send you a WD20EURS.
I can see what they say, but I am not sure what that will buy me. Here is why. I want a P4, and that drive would be great. However, if I put it in my THD, and take it out and then use it in a P4, selling the THD would get me back to the "is it worth it to just sell it as a lifetime 160GB unit" question.

Still, it can not hurt to ask. Keep in mind that <$100 is easy online anyway.

I will call them now!

Film @11 as they say on the T and V.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:13 PM   #44
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$40 but I do not think it is worth it. Why? Because either drive will have a 90 day warranty! So, why bother with a recert wd20eurs when a wd10ears is free.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:07 PM   #45
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I can see what they say, but I am not sure what that will buy me. Here is why. I want a P4, and that drive would be great. However, if I put it in my THD, and take it out and then use it in a P4, selling the THD would get me back to the "is it worth it to just sell it as a lifetime 160GB unit" question.

Still, it can not hurt to ask. Keep in mind that <$100 is easy online anyway.

I will call them now!

Film @11 as they say on the T and V.
Lifetime will do a lot more for the resale value than what kind or size of drive is in it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:30 PM   #46
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Lifetime will do a lot more for the resale value than what kind or size of drive is in it.
Yes, so a 1TB vs. a 2TB would not matter. When I get the 1TB WD10EARS, I will have to study the WinMFS info again. It has been so long since I did all 3 of my THD's. I still have the .exe I got 1/22/09 and assume it is current. I forgot how I registered on the site. I had heard that it was not required any more but I guess it is.

OH, it has been a week and the other 2 THD's still do not call the BEDROOM THD anything but that DVR-BE45 type of name. I will not bother with fixing it until I put my "new" (recert) WD10EARS in.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #47
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UNITRON...a quick question!

After all of the above, WDC sent me an email giving the s/n of my replacement drive. I still do not have any ship status, but do have the new s/n and model of the replacement drive.

SO, I was told that for FREE I would get a WD10EARS, but they are sending me a WD20EZRX!

I assume that is OK. Not sure if I still need wdidle3 and AAM software.
However, since I now have my ORIGINAL Tivo drive running fine with the latest SW and guide info, etc, can I now use WINMFS to get 300+ hours instead of the 1TB 157 hrs? Will WINMFS let me use the extra space on the 2TB drive they are sending since the source now will be a normal untouched 160GB Tivo drive? I would use the 2 drive method and have it copy the few shows that are on the 160GB drive.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:45 PM   #48
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UNITRON...a quick question!

After all of the above, WDC sent me an email giving the s/n of my replacement drive. I still do not have any ship status, but do have the new s/n and model of the replacement drive.

SO, I was told that for FREE I would get a WD10EARS, but they are sending me a WD20EZRX!

I assume that is OK. Not sure if I still need wdidle3 and AAM software.
However, since I now have my ORIGINAL Tivo drive running fine with the latest SW and guide info, etc, can I now use WINMFS to get 300+ hours instead of the 1TB 157 hrs? Will WINMFS let me use the extra space on the 2TB drive they are sending since the source now will be a normal untouched 160GB Tivo drive? I would use the 2 drive method and have it copy the few shows that are on the 160GB drive.

If the source drive has been updated to version 11.0k of the TiVo software (which has been out for a couple of years now), then you can use WinMFS to copy anything smaller than 2TB to a 2TB and expand.


My concern is the particular model they're giving you, as it's a newer one, and I don't know if the 4k sectors advanced format thing and the 6Gb/s thing will interfere with it working in a TiVo that came out when drives were 512 sector and 1.5Gb/s.

You can (laboriously) search this site for WD drives with Z and/or X in the model name to see if anyone else has anything good or bad to say about them for TiVos.

Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...61#post9588461

or see if Amazon is price matching.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:50 PM   #49
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If the source drive has been updated to version 11.0k of the TiVo software (which has been out for a couple of years now), then you can use WinMFS to copy anything smaller than 2TB to a 2TB and expand.


My concern is the particular model they're giving you, as it's a newer one, and I don't know if the 4k sectors advanced format thing and the 6Gb/s thing will interfere with it working in a TiVo that came out when drives were 512 sector and 1.5Gb/s.

You can (laboriously) search this site for WD drives with Z and/or X in the model name to see if anyone else has anything good or bad to say about them for TiVos.

Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...61#post9588461

or see if Amazon is price matching.
I see if I put a jumper on pins 5-6 it Forces SATA3 (or II if that is how you track it), so that should be fine. Also, wasn't the WD10EARS also advanced format 4k sectors? I can, at least, let everyone know if this does work as it is a new drive model.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #50
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I see if I put a jumper on pins 5-6 it Forces SATA3 (or II if that is how you track it), so that should be fine. Also, wasn't the WD10EARS also advanced format 4k sectors? I can, at least, let everyone know if this does work as it is a new drive model.
Well, there's advanced format and then there's advanced format.

Some of the 4k sector drives, mostly the first ones when the changeover started, are capable of presenting themselves to the outside world as 512 byte sector drives, but some of the newer ones don't do that and I don't know what the ZRXs do.

And I don't know if TiVos know how to deal with that or not.

The annoying part is that 4k sectors were only needed for drives bigger than 2TB in the first place, so making 2TB and under drives "AF" is just an unneccessary booby trap.

You could also grab one of those EURSs while they're available and keep it on hand in case you need a new drive for any other S3 or newer TiVo's.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #51
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Well they do have an align tool to fix this but I suppose that if I try to just use it I will see if it works. If not, I can always just do the align and use it in my eSATA box for my XP systems, as there is a 1TB in there now.. As you said, worst case is that I keep the 160GB drive in the Bedroom and sell it that way when I do get P4's. The fact that they are lifetime is what counts anyway!

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Well, there's advanced format and then there's advanced format.

Some of the 4k sector drives, mostly the first ones when the changeover started, are capable of presenting themselves to the outside world as 512 byte sector drives, but some of the newer ones don't do that and I don't know what the ZRXs do.

And I don't know if TiVos know how to deal with that or not.

The annoying part is that 4k sectors were only needed for drives bigger than 2TB in the first place, so making 2TB and under drives "AF" is just an unneccessary booby trap.

You could also grab one of those EURSs while they're available and keep it on hand in case you need a new drive for any other S3 or newer TiVo's.

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Old 03-27-2013, 07:11 PM   #52
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My concern is the particular model they're giving you, as it's a newer one, and I don't know if the 4k sectors advanced format thing and the 6Gb/s thing will interfere with it working in a TiVo that came out when drives were 512 sector and 1.5Gb/s.

You can (laboriously) search this site for WD drives with Z and/or X in the model name to see if anyone else has anything good or bad to say about them for TiVos.

Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.
Unitron,

The WD20EURS is an advanced format drive as well with a 3Gb/s SATA interface. The 6Gb/s interface should negotiate down.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...al-hard-drives

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Old 03-27-2013, 08:16 PM   #53
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Unitron,

The WD20EURS is an advanced format drive as well with a 3Gb/s SATA interface. The 6Gb/s interface should negotiate down.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/...al-hard-drives

Scott
Scott, I was planning to add the jumper to force 3Gb/s. It can not hurt. I can then put this WD20EZRX in and try wdidle3 /D and also enable AAM.

At that point, since my stock 160GB Tivo drive is updated with the current Software, etc, should I answer YES when it asks if I want to expand as it sees a 2 TB drive? I believe that the 1.26 GB limit has now been resolved with the current 11.0k Software.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:00 AM   #54
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Scott, I was planning to add the jumper to force 3Gb/s. It can not hurt. I can then put this WD20EZRX in and try wdidle3 /D and also enable AAM.

At that point, since my stock 160GB Tivo drive is updated with the current Software, etc, should I answer YES when it asks if I want to expand as it sees a 2 TB drive? I believe that the 1.26 GB limit has now been resolved with the current 11.0k Software.
Do the expansion separately with mfsadd.

Copy from the 160, which will be the first drive you selected when you clicked select drive.

When it finishes copying, tell it no when it offers to expand.

Then click select drive again, and this time select the 2TB drive.

Then click mfsinfo and make sure nothing looks horribly wrong (it should show a huge Apple Free partition in the partition map), then back out of that and click mfsadd.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:26 AM   #55
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Of course you could always use that drive in a newer PC to store shows copied from your TiVo(s) and get a WD20EURS, available for $95 'til April 1st at newegg.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...61#post9588461

or see if Amazon is price matching.
Careful with NewEgg. I asked their Customer Service about how they will ship this drive and was told it does NOT come in a small cardboard box from WD (where the drive is secured by two plastic end caps). Rather, it will be tossed (my word) into a box with some peanuts where it can bounce around all the way to your home. Of course, if it's DOA they'll replace it, but it's the latent damage that concerns me.

I'd pay Amazon $15 more to have the drive packaged and shipped properly.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:04 PM   #56
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Do the expansion separately with mfsadd.

Copy from the 160, which will be the first drive you selected when you clicked select drive.

When it finishes copying, tell it no when it offers to expand.

Then click select drive again, and this time select the 2TB drive.

Then click mfsinfo and make sure nothing looks horribly wrong (it should show a huge Apple Free partition in the partition map), then back out of that and click mfsadd.
Great, when do I tell it to Supersize? OH, drive will be here Monday. I think I will run a full test, should take 8 hrs! However, I believe I will run this test before I use WDIDLE3 or AAM.

P.S, with the original 160GB drive in the TIVO it is well on its way to 1,000,000 seconds and still no reboots!
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #57
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Careful with NewEgg. I asked their Customer Service about how they will ship this drive and was told it does NOT come in a small cardboard box from WD (where the drive is secured by two plastic end caps). Rather, it will be tossed (my word) into a box with some peanuts where it can bounce around all the way to your home. Of course, if it's DOA they'll replace it, but it's the latent damage that concerns me.

I'd pay Amazon $15 more to have the drive packaged and shipped properly.
It is funny that Newegg does this. As you can see from this thread, WDC is sending me a replacement drive. They warn that even the "bad" drive has to be shipped as follows.

All products require stable and sufficient packing material, needed to protect the product from ESD (Electro Static Discharge) influences and possible damage during transport. Required Packaging Steps:
A. Place drive in ESD (Electro Static Discharge) Bag (For internal drives only.)
B. Wrap with 2 inches of bubble wrap or non-movable foam cushioning
C. Place in sturdy cardboard box. Do not use chipboard, as it is not strong enough to withstand the rigors of transit. Please make sure the corrugated carton is free from defects and is structurally sound. Note: Returning a WD hard drive in an envelope, will void the warranty.


I have gotten drives from Newegg and Amazon and am surprised at the way Newegg shipps the drive!
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:23 PM   #58
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Great, when do I tell it to Supersize? ...
Whenever you want to, basically, but I'd probably save that for last.

In theory I suppose you could supersize the 160, and that would carry over in the copying, just like cable card pairings, Season Passes, etc.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:09 PM   #59
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Whenever you want to, basically, but I'd probably save that for last.

In theory I suppose you could supersize the 160, and that would carry over in the copying, just like cable card pairings, Season Passes, etc.
I will save it for last then. I believe I will leave the new HDD alone when it comes to the Align software that WD provides. It seems to be an XP issue anyway and I have not seen that anyone has even had an issue with it in a TIVO. If not aligned, it only slows down XP, it does not cause a failure. I will, however, jumper pins 5-6 to force 3Gb/sec on this 6 Gb/sec drive.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:40 PM   #60
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Careful with NewEgg. I asked their Customer Service about how they will ship this drive and was told it does NOT come in a small cardboard box from WD (where the drive is secured by two plastic end caps). Rather, it will be tossed (my word) into a box with some peanuts where it can bounce around all the way to your home. Of course, if it's DOA they'll replace it, but it's the latent damage that concerns me.

I'd pay Amazon $15 more to have the drive packaged and shipped properly.
I recently bought a hard drive from Newegg.
Mine came in a sealed anti static bag, nested in plastic end caps in a properly sized hard cardboard box, inside a larger box filled with wadded up brown paper.
I guess it's a good thing the UPS employees didn't substitute my package for a football.

How does Amazon ship their drives?
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