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Old 03-19-2013, 03:23 PM   #91
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Most people wont do this because setting it up is a bit complicated and it requires a PC to be running 24/7. Another advantage to the Mini is it only draw ~6W. I PC is going to draw close to 100W even when not doing anything.
True, but it's still an option. Lots of people have a pc anyway, and you can add 2TB for under $100. I don't plan to leave it on 24/7, (though I suppose I might end up doing so out of laziness) and I doubt it draws that much power in idle... I should find out. I have a relatively small house and family so for some families they may stress the system more.

Another pro for media server: stream to the roku, sure, but I can also stream to any phone or tablet.

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Money could fix both of those problems for you. A little extra $$ and you could be a 4 tuner iOS user in no time.
Yes, it's always just a little more, isn't it? I would probably buy the rumored 6 tuner, stream built in, better processor/more responsive, better apps tivo 5 that also handles hd audio playback along with the video and rich fanart interfaces (ok I threw those last couple parts in myself, I can dream) and at that point, grab a mini as well, but I don't see any apple devices in my future. And I'm too late to the party to bother with the current 4 tuner tivos - I just got my first tivo last May.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #92
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Screw!! I don't know who at TiVo been telling people that the Mini will not work with the 2 tuner TP but I just called TiVo tech support and talked to Dave and he said without question the Mini will stream from ANY series 4 TiVo, now and in the future, the only problem is many people are confusing the two tuner TiVo-HD with a 2 tuner TiVo, and the Mini will not work with the TiVo-HD model. The reference # for my call is 130319012995.
I am also going to get a Mini and need it to work with the TPs with 2 tuners.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:03 PM   #93
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And the Mini works great streaming content from a two tuner Premiere.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:10 PM   #94
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We'll have to agree to disagree - strongly. "help in a store" is entirely and totally different than a call center product focused sales force.
You're calling them a sales force. How are they not different from the people you call up at the cable company? Haven't you had trouble calling people at the cable company to get useful info? (BTW, I am NOT one of the people who "hates the cable company".)
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:55 AM   #95
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You're calling them a sales force. How are they not different from the people you call up at the cable company? Haven't you had trouble calling people at the cable company to get useful info? (BTW, I am NOT one of the people who "hates the cable company".)
Actually, though the conversation has moved past this-----

No - I've found serious issues with dealing with either VZ or Comcast on a number of fronts. However, the one area I have not had issue with is having them describe their products. Comcast was in my experience quite good at that, but less effective at delivering product. VZ is horrible at "customer service" but excellent at delivering product. By customer service, I meaning billing, account management, etc. VZ is such a siloed company that one group isn't integrated into another, resulting in a terribly fractured customer experience. The people at Tivo on the sales line are highly focused, product specific sales people. They have a VERY small number of devices and configurations to deal with. I don't blame the people on the phone. I blame Tivo for screwing up a product release. It's a management issue.

BTW, I called back (I also have a reference number, BTW. Mine is 130318-006069) and FINALLY got "Jeff", who was very clear about the product capabilities. He looked through all of my contact history, looked at the notes, and concurred that while he can't believe all those people screwed up, they were all consistently wrong.

UPDATE: Realized today that while "Jeff" got the streaming thing right, he was totally inaccurate about the "dedicated tuner" situation. And I mean REAL inaccurate. No possible way that his answers/explanations were anything even remotely close to correct. We're talking about being off by zip codes.

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Old 03-23-2013, 12:47 AM   #96
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Yikes

Man, wmhjr. I think youre Tivos dies so much cuz you bored them to death by arguing every point. Holy crap. SImple solution to all your questions? Use an iPad. U can access both dvr right now. U can watch tv, right now. U can look at lists right now. The functionality you crave so much is available thru Tivo's iOS app, right now. I have an xl4 and Tivo HD, been using it simialr to the way you describe your wishes for a cpl years. I used FIOS for years on these and worked great. In a Time Warner market now...wouldve filled the house with Minis on Fios, TWC no way. Infrastructure is terrible. Waiting to hear from these forums how they handle the minis on TWC first

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Actually, though the conversation has moved past this-----

No - I've found serious issues with dealing with either VZ or Comcast on a number of fronts. However, the one area I have not had issue with is having them describe their products. Comcast was in my experience quite good at that, but less effective at delivering product. VZ is horrible at "customer service" but excellent at delivering product. By customer service, I meaning billing, account management, etc. VZ is such a siloed company that one group isn't integrated into another, resulting in a terribly fractured customer experience. The people at Tivo on the sales line are highly focused, product specific sales people. They have a VERY small number of devices and configurations to deal with. I don't blame the people on the phone. I blame Tivo for screwing up a product release. It's a management issue.

BTW, I called back (I also have a reference number, BTW. Mine is 130318-006069) and FINALLY got "Jeff", who was very clear about the product capabilities. He looked through all of my contact history, looked at the notes, and concurred that while he can't believe all those people screwed up, they were all consistently wrong.

UPDATE: Realized today that while "Jeff" got the streaming thing right, he was totally inaccurate about the "dedicated tuner" situation. And I mean REAL inaccurate. No possible way that his answers/explanations were anything even remotely close to correct. We're talking about being off by zip codes.

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:28 AM   #97
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Most people wont do this because setting it up is a bit complicated and it requires a PC to be running 24/7. Another advantage to the Mini is it only draw ~6W. I PC is going to draw close to 100W even when not doing anything.
My Latitude with quad core i7 processor and 1T drive uses less than 90 watts at full load and about 12 at idle. PCs don't have to be so power hungry as they once were. Many companies, including my own, have been able to justify continued computer upgrades solely on power savings vs any performance improvement the last few years.

Sorry, back on subject now.

Multiple Premieres is not that much more expensive than a Premiere 4 and a mini. Granted, as you add more sets, it changes but few homes have more than 3 viewing locations. Lets look at the numbers.

3 Tivo Premieres with lifetime service = 450 x 3 = 1350
1 Tivo Premiere 4 with lifetime service and 2 minis = 650 + 250 + 250 = 1150

Plus the Premieres with lifetime have a long history of very high residual value when time to upgrade. No history with the mini but it likely will be better than most accessories but less than the DVR.

And those secondary Tivos do not HAVE to have cable cards. If you only watch live tv once in a while, its not hard to start a recording remotely and watch while its recording.

The multi Premiere arrangement gives you 2 more tuners, 150 hrs more recording space, netflix and amazon at all 3 locations and OTA tuning capability at all 3 locations. All for $200 more. For some, including me it's a worthy upgrade.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:52 PM   #98
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Man, wmhjr. I think youre Tivos dies so much cuz you bored them to death by arguing every point. Holy crap. SImple solution to all your questions? Use an iPad. U can access both dvr right now. U can watch tv, right now. U can look at lists right now. The functionality you crave so much is available thru Tivo's iOS app, right now. I have an xl4 and Tivo HD, been using it simialr to the way you describe your wishes for a cpl years. I used FIOS for years on these and worked great. In a Time Warner market now...wouldve filled the house with Minis on Fios, TWC no way. Infrastructure is terrible. Waiting to hear from these forums how they handle the minis on TWC first
Pal, if you have nothing constructive to add, don't bother. Simple solution? Learn English. And you need to do a little research to understand exactly what you're talking about. You are spamming incorrect and inaccurate information. Maybe it would help if you would stop opening your mouth long enough to understand what people are trying to accomplish. You either are deliberately misunderstanding what I' (and others) would like to do, or you're being dishonest. I use the iPad app. Been using it longer than you apparently. I'm thoroughly familiar with what it does - and what it does not do.

BTW, I could care less about TW. Never mentioned it. I've been a Tivo customer apparently far longer than you, with far more units, and have been here many many years longer. Maybe keep that in mind.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I have no patience for trolls who are either unwilling or incapable of having civil discussions.

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:00 PM   #99
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Have to agree with jcrthorne on that one. I'm trying out a mini, but frankly, it's a tough argument. Seems like a very niche opportunity. When the all in price starts at $250, it kills a tuner, provides no recording capability, it's kind of tough. I can see a very appealing situation where you have Ethernet but no RG6 in a location, and the mini could provide an easy solution. But, it's really not cheap. Honestly the most compelling use for one in my case would be in my shop.

Seems like more and more, the "acceptable" price for Tivo keeps going up. If the mini required no service, it would be awesome even if it killed a tuner or two. And, it would likely have driven increased sales of Tivo DVRs. At either $6/month or a total cost of $250 plus the loss of a recording tuner, the math is a bit tougher. I know Tivo is in a tough place here, but nonetheless, it's a tough argument too.

I'm trying a mini now. I have to say, it's a tough call right now to say whether or not I keep it I know life in general is a serious of guesses, but this one is harder than most to commit to .
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:11 PM   #100
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Have to agree with jcrthorne on that one. I'm trying out a mini, but frankly, it's a tough argument. Seems like a very niche opportunity. When the all in price starts at $250, it kills a tuner, provides no recording capability, it's kind of tough. I can see a very appealing situation where you have Ethernet but no RG6 in a location, and the mini could provide an easy solution. But, it's really not cheap. Honestly the most compelling use for one in my case would be in my shop.

Seems like more and more, the "acceptable" price for Tivo keeps going up. If the mini required no service, it would be awesome even if it killed a tuner or two. And, it would likely have driven increased sales of Tivo DVRs. At either $6/month or a total cost of $250 plus the loss of a recording tuner, the math is a bit tougher. I know Tivo is in a tough place here, but nonetheless, it's a tough argument too.

I'm trying a mini now. I have to say, it's a tough call right now to say whether or not I keep it I know life in general is a serious of guesses, but this one is harder than most to commit to .
Even being overpriced, the math still works out very well for it.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:15 PM   #101
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still overpriced
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:48 AM   #102
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Have to agree with jcrthorne on that one. I'm trying out a mini, but frankly, it's a tough argument. Seems like a very niche opportunity. When the all in price starts at $250, it kills a tuner, provides no recording capability, it's kind of tough. I can see a very appealing situation where you have Ethernet but no RG6 in a location, and the mini could provide an easy solution. But, it's really not cheap. Honestly the most compelling use for one in my case would be in my shop.

Seems like more and more, the "acceptable" price for Tivo keeps going up. If the mini required no service, it would be awesome even if it killed a tuner or two. And, it would likely have driven increased sales of Tivo DVRs. At either $6/month or a total cost of $250 plus the loss of a recording tuner, the math is a bit tougher. I know Tivo is in a tough place here, but nonetheless, it's a tough argument too.

I'm trying a mini now. I have to say, it's a tough call right now to say whether or not I keep it I know life in general is a serious of guesses, but this one is harder than most to commit to .
With every new HD TiVo the price has gone down and continues to go down. In 2004 my first HD TiVo was $1k plus I think a $5 a month fee.

Then in 2006 the S3 was $800 but lifetime wasn't offered so you had to get monthly service.

Then in 2007 the TiVoHD came out for even less and I think lifetime was back at $299 for the MSD price.

In 2010 the premiere came out and I was able to get them with lifetime service for a little over $500.

In 2011 a four tuner version came out, with MSD lifetime it was under $900, which again was cheaper than two of the two tuner Premieres with lifetime.

Now the Mini is out and the price is only $250 which gives you access to all the TiVo recordings from TiVos on the network.

So later this year when the six tuner box is released, I expect the box with lifetime will save even more money, when you price it per tuner.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:34 AM   #103
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Screw!! I don't know who at TiVo been telling people that the Mini will not work with the 2 tuner TP but I just called TiVo tech support and talked to Dave and he said without question the Mini will stream from ANY series 4 TiVo, now and in the future, the only problem is many people are confusing the two tuner TiVo-HD with a 2 tuner TiVo, and the Mini will not work with the TiVo-HD model. The reference # for my call is 130319012995.
I am also going to get a Mini and need it to work with the TPs with 2 tuners.
Wait!? Are you saying that you don't need a 4 tuner just to set the damn thing up? That's different than others have reported.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:07 AM   #104
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Wait!? Are you saying that you don't need a 4 tuner just to set the damn thing up? That's different than others have reported.
No, you need the TP-4 (or TPXL-4) to use and set up a Mini but after that the Mini will stream from any Series 4 TiVo 2 tuner, 4 tuner any Series 4 model. Another question people are asking is if you purchase a TP-4, set up your Mini than return your TP-4 will the Mini still work with the remaining TP-2 units, I don't know the answer to that, and until somebody tries that and it works for a month or so we will not know that answer.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:58 AM   #105
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No, you need the TP-4 (or TPXL-4) to use and set up a Mini but after that the Mini will stream from any Series 4 TiVo 2 tuner, 4 tuner any Series 4 model. Another question people are asking is if you purchase a TP-4, set up your Mini than return your TP-4 will the Mini still work with the remaining TP-2 units, I don't know the answer to that, and until somebody tries that and it works for a month or so we will not know that answer.
Ok, thanks. was thinking that Tivo had not gone as far off their rocker as I had thought when you posted that. But I guess they still want to alienate the folks that only have 2 tuner boxes.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:08 PM   #106
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An alternative to a Mini that I have not seen mentioned - a Premiere w/o a CableCARD. If you want to watch something "live" that is not available OTA or via clear QAM, simply start recording it on a CableCARDed Premiere (kmttg or the TiVo app is good for this) and stream the recording. Makes it difficult to channel surf but you also don't have to dedicate a tuner.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #107
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An alternative to a Mini that I have not seen mentioned - a Premiere w/o a CableCARD. If you want to watch something "live" that is not available OTA or via clear QAM, simply start recording it on a CableCARDed Premiere (kmttg or the TiVo app is good for this) and stream the recording. Makes it difficult to channel surf but you also don't have to dedicate a tuner.
That's more expensive then a Mini though. Even a clearence TiVo Premiere is $100 + $13/mo or $400/lifetime. A Mini is only $100 + $6/mo or $150/lifetime.

For most people with cable the Mini makes better economic sense. The only people who should be looking at multiple Premieres are those that need OTA or analog, or those that need more then 4 tuners.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:44 PM   #108
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That's more expensive then a Mini though. Even a clearence TiVo Premiere is $100 + $13/mo or $400/lifetime. A Mini is only $100 + $6/mo or $150/lifetime.
+ the price of acquiring a 4-tuner TiVo. Directly comparing the cost of a Premiere to the Mini ignores all of the other factors.

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For most people with cable the Mini makes better economic sense. The only people who should be looking at multiple Premieres are those that need OTA or analog, or those that need more then 4 tuners.
Or someone who doesn't already have a TP 4 or XL4. Or wants the option of using it as full TiVo in the future.

BTW, I was mainly pointing that you do not have to install a CableCARD in a 2-tuner Premiere and thus incur the associated cost.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:02 PM   #109
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An alternative to a Mini that I have not seen mentioned - a Premiere w/o a CableCARD. If you want to watch something "live" that is not available OTA or via clear QAM, simply start recording it on a CableCARDed Premiere (kmttg or the TiVo app is good for this) and stream the recording. Makes it difficult to channel surf but you also don't have to dedicate a tuner.
Or OTA, so you'd get some more tuners out of it. That actually is a good idea in addition to a 4 or XL4 and some Minis, so that you can set some of your network recording up on it to save tuners on the cable-connected TiVo, and with some cable companies that re-compress, better quality.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:58 PM   #110
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Or OTA, so you'd get some more tuners out of it. That actually is a good idea in addition to a 4 or XL4 and some Minis, so that you can set some of your network recording up on it to save tuners on the cable-connected TiVo, and with some cable companies that re-compress, better quality.
This may seem like a good idea but we have had that from TiVo when TiVo started MRS, at any time you could have purchased a 746 used TP for about $50, spent $400 for lifetime, not put a cable card in the unit and for $450 you have a somewhat Mini, it is bigger, used 20 watts more power, can't set up another TiVo for recording as the Mini can, and cost $200 more. OH and did I mention that you would have to hard wire Ethernet cable to each TP or purchase a MaCo unit for each TiVo, that would cost another $150 if you have two TPs already.
If you want to add another TV viewing place in your home IMHO the Mini is the way to go IF you have one or more four tuner TiVos. (MoCa is built in)
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:00 PM   #111
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This may seem like a good idea but we have had that from TiVo when TiVo started MRS, at any time you could have purchased a 746 used TP for about $50, spent $400 for lifetime, not put a cable card in the unit and for $450 you have a somewhat Mini, it is bigger, used 20 watts more power, can't set up another TiVo for recording as the Mini can, and cost $200 more. OH and did I mention that you would have to hard wire Ethernet cable to each TP or purchase a MaCo unit for each TiVo, that would cost another $150 if you have two TP already.
If you want to add another TV viewing place in your home IMHO the Mini is the way to go IF you have one or more four tuner TiVos. (MoCa is built in)
I'm just saying it would be good to have one location with a full blown TP, as you have two more tuners and it could serve as a backup if the cable is not working.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:46 AM   #112
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That's more expensive then a Mini though. Even a clearence TiVo Premiere is $100 + $13/mo or $400/lifetime. A Mini is only $100 + $6/mo or $150/lifetime.

For most people with cable the Mini makes better economic sense. The only people who should be looking at multiple Premieres are those that need OTA or analog, or those that need more then 4 tuners.
No Dan, those that need more than 3 tuners. An XL4 with a mini is a 3 tuner plus mini live TV solution.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:49 AM   #113
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This may seem like a good idea but we have had that from TiVo when TiVo started MRS, at any time you could have purchased a 746 used TP for about $50, spent $400 for lifetime, not put a cable card in the unit and for $450 you have a somewhat Mini, it is bigger, used 20 watts more power, can't set up another TiVo for recording as the Mini can, and cost $200 more. OH and did I mention that you would have to hard wire Ethernet cable to each TP or purchase a MaCo unit for each TiVo, that would cost another $150 if you have two TPs already.
If you want to add another TV viewing place in your home IMHO the Mini is the way to go IF you have one or more four tuner TiVos. (MoCa is built in)
AND if you can afford to turn that 4 tuner box to a 3 tuner box. As we've discussed to death, you either have to never have live TV at the mini location, or the 4 tuner box is permanently a 3 tuner box.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #114
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Lets look at the numbers.

3 Tivo Premieres with lifetime service = 450 x 3 = 1350
1 Tivo Premiere 4 with lifetime service and 2 minis = 650 + 250 + 250 = 1150

...

All for $200 more. For some, including me it's a worthy upgrade.
3 Tivo Premieres with lifetime service = 550 x 3 = 1650

$500 more.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:24 AM   #115
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3 Tivo Premieres with lifetime service = 550 x 3 = 1650

$500 more.
Only if you buy them new from TiVo.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:32 PM   #116
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Only if you buy them new from TiVo.
So, now the argument is that Tivo is less expensive in the long run because you just don't buy new equipment? Really?
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #117
atmuscarella
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So, now the argument is that Tivo is less expensive in the long run because you just don't buy new equipment? Really?
Unless you just want to pay $550 you can get a better deal by just waiting for a special offer or even by buying from a retailer that is running a special. $500 with lifetime is common and we have seen $450 now and then.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:41 PM   #118
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So, now the argument is that Tivo is less expensive in the long run because you just don't buy new equipment? Really?


Why do some people insist on turning every thread like this one into an argument rather than a discussion of the various options - pros and cons of each one? Let people weigh the various options and make their own decision rather than trying to validate your decision by proselytizing.

Whatever the cost of each option is one factor in the decision. Have you never heard of a cost/benefit analysis?
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:18 PM   #119
wmhjr
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Why do some people insist on turning every thread like this one into an argument rather than a discussion of the various options - pros and cons of each one? Let people weigh the various options and make their own decision rather than trying to validate your decision by proselytizing.

Whatever the cost of each option is one factor in the decision. Have you never heard of a cost/benefit analysis?
That makes me laugh a little. You actually just asked if I've heard of a cost benefit analysis while we're discussing which costs are accurate and which are not in - a cost benefit analysis. There is nobody here who has said cost is the only driver. There are people here who have insisted that Tivo is always cheaper.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:32 PM   #120
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That makes me laugh a little. You actually just asked if I've heard of a cost benefit analysis while we're discussing which costs are accurate and which are not in - a cost benefit analysis. There is nobody here who has said cost is the only driver. There are people here who have insisted that Tivo is always cheaper.
I should have read the entire you responded to rather than just the part you quoted. Mea Culpa. However, I was just pointing out that you do not have to buy buy new nor do you have to buy from TiVo. And as atmuscarella pointed out, you can usually get a discount at some point even if you buy from TiVo, although that also applies to the TP4 or XL4.

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There is nobody here who has said cost is the only driver.
If this post doesn't qualify, it comes awfully close.

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Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
There are people here who have insisted that Tivo is always cheaper.
I must've missed those posts.
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