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Old 03-14-2013, 06:50 AM   #1
slowbiscuit
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Strange season pass behavior

I have an SP for the FX show 'The Americans' which is set to new only (first-run), unlimited eps, no dupes. Checked the ToDo last night before the show and saw for some reason ALL eps were scheduled including dupes of every showing both last night and next Wednesday. But only for that SP for some reason, and it never did this before on any of my SPs.

Changed the SP to New+repeats, hit OK, saw that nothing changed in ToDo (probably didn't wait long enough). Changed back to New only, moved it down a notch in SP manager to force a reschedule, and everything's back to normal.

Weird that it was only this SP, I'm guessing that it got corrupt somehow. Everything else looks good in ToDo (I have over 60 SPs/ARWLs, about half of which are active now).
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:29 AM   #2
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Let me say that perhaps the SP isn't perfect. If you want to see "new only" really get confused, add "The Daily Show" at 11pm when new shows start in a few weeks. It will always fail on Monday's show by recording repeats but usually be ok on Tue to Thur.

I did just notice a slight change in the SP first screen. Some thumbnails no longer have start/stop offset when one isn't used. It might have been that way for little while.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
Let me say that perhaps the SP isn't perfect. If you want to see "new only" really get confused, add "The Daily Show" at 11pm when new shows start in a few weeks. It will always fail on Monday's show by recording repeats but usually be ok on Tue to Thur.
"The Daily Show" is notorious for missing the guide data which identifies individual episodes. In those cases, the default behavior is to record it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
I did just notice a slight change in the SP first screen. Some thumbnails no longer have start/stop offset when one isn't used. It might have been that way for little while.
Since the SPM wasn't added to the HDUI until 20.2.2...
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
"The Daily Show" is notorious for missing the guide data which identifies individual episodes. In those cases, the default behavior is to record it.
The guide data has always been accurate (displayed anyhow). The To Do List is wrong. Unless I should ignore the "new" icon?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:11 AM   #5
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Yeah I forgot to say in my OP that the guide data was/is accurate for the show (i.e. not generic) so I'm puzzled as to why my Elite thought it needed to suddenly start recording every copy of it when I had it set to new only. I've never seen this before on any new only SP with what appears to be good data.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Yeah I forgot to say in my OP that the guide data was/is accurate for the show (i.e. not generic) so I'm puzzled as to why my Elite thought it needed to suddenly start recording every copy of it when I had it set to new only. I've never seen this before on any new only SP with what appears to be good data.
Information for the guide comes from Tribune Media I believe. I see "new" on both episodes of AC360 on CNN and all primetime of MSNBC. My theory is that "new" is sort of a daily event and any title on any day with a SP will schedule but may not record or it may. It's not much effort to delete duplicates. I have never missed any scheduled event, new or old. It's a minor issue but fun to speculate about.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Yeah I forgot to say in my OP that the guide data was/is accurate for the show (i.e. not generic) so I'm puzzled as to why my Elite thought it needed to suddenly start recording every copy of it when I had it set to new only. I've never seen this before on any new only SP with what appears to be good data.
Perhaps I phrased that improperly. It's actually the full program data that may be deficient. There's more to the program data than what you see. As I said before, "The Daily Show" is notorious for this problem. There have been numerous posts about this going back for years.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:05 PM   #8
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This has been a problem I've complained about for years. I don't recall if I watch any FX shows, presently, but shows on a few other channels I watch are constantly scheduling recordings for reruns. Sometimes there are absolutely scores of them in my 'to do' list.

The thing I don't get is that they don't even indicate that they are new eps (all my SPs are for 'new only' except That Girl). They usually even have original air dates that would be accurate and no 'new' designation. Yet, they will be sent to my to do list to be recorded.

I see it a lot with E! channel shows as well as TVLand, Comedy Central, and a few others. It's exasperating and I wish 'they' (whoever is responsible for this) would fix it.

I'd say that it seems like it's a Tribune Media problem, but almost 100% of the time that extra episodes are scheduled they do NOT say they are new - no 'new' tag, no new OAD, nothing that can be seen with the human eye that would indicate they are new episodes.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:22 PM   #9
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Repeat Offenders

Over time you'll get accustomed to identifying which programs are repeatedly plagued by this behavior where the To Do list wants to record repeats even though your Season Pass is set to record New only.

I've gotten into the habit of going through my Season Pass Manager weekly to double-check these problematic programs (like the Daily Show) and cancel the repeats.

However, deleting the repeats has recently caused problems with the first-run episode not recording.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...35#post9543935

I think the best practice to make sure only the first-run episode is recorded is to delete the repeats from your To Do list and then "lock in" the first-run episode by selecting:

Record as Planned > Options > Record episode with these options > Select

This will change the double-checkmarks Season Pass icon to a single-checkmark One-Time Recording icon in the To Do list.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
The guide data has always been accurate (displayed anyhow). The To Do List is wrong. Unless I should ignore the "new" icon?
Can you explain what you mean? I think you are incorrect, however I can't say for sure without more information.

More than a week in the future (estimate), the Daily Show/Colbert Report episodes are almost always LACKING specific information. At that point, as others said, Tivos default to recording (it *might* be new -- this is a reasonable default, IMHO, though if we had a geeky choice, I would PROBABLY risk turning the default to off for no guide data, even though I admit I would be POed if it missed an actual new episode).

Usually within a day or two of airing at most, the guide data *has* been updated lately (last few years), so EVEN Monday reruns _usually_ get updated guide data.. I OCD-ly often remove the reruns from the To Do list myself, but the times I don't, they do eventually go away the vast majority of the time nowadays.

Anyway, to the specific "the guide data has always been accurate" part. From a simple black box perspective (my use as a user), there is a period of time, seemingly most of a day at least, where part of the Tivo UI can show UPDATED guide data (e.g. if you View Upcoming and go in individual episodes), but the To Do list and I think manually going through the guide (e.g. view by time) can show NON UPDATED data (i.e. generic data for shows).

This can also result in seeing a show set to record from a SP recording (not a one-check manual /forced recording in the old UI), but if you ENTER THAT SPECIFIC SHOW and View Upcoming, it says there are no episodes to record.

Personally, this UI inconsistency is one of the worse (not worst, but pretty bad) parts of the generally very good Tivo UI.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Can you explain what you mean? I think you are incorrect, however I can't say for sure without more information.

More than a week in the future (estimate), the Daily Show/Colbert Report episodes are almost always LACKING specific information. At that point, as others said, Tivos default to recording (it *might* be new -- this is a reasonable default, IMHO, though if we had a geeky choice, I would PROBABLY risk turning the default to off for no guide data, even though I admit I would be POed if it missed an actual new episode).

Usually within a day or two of airing at most, the guide data *has* been updated lately (last few years), so EVEN Monday reruns _usually_ get updated guide data.. I OCD-ly often remove the reruns from the To Do list myself, but the times I don't, they do eventually go away the vast majority of the time nowadays.

Anyway, to the specific "the guide data has always been accurate" part. From a simple black box perspective (my use as a user), there is a period of time, seemingly most of a day at least, where part of the Tivo UI can show UPDATED guide data (e.g. if you View Upcoming and go in individual episodes), but the To Do list and I think manually going through the guide (e.g. view by time) can show NON UPDATED data (i.e. generic data for shows).

This can also result in seeing a show set to record from a SP recording (not a one-check manual /forced recording in the old UI), but if you ENTER THAT SPECIFIC SHOW and View Upcoming, it says there are no episodes to record.

Personally, this UI inconsistency is one of the worse (not worst, but pretty bad) parts of the generally very good Tivo UI.
I think we share that slight touch of OCD or curiosity about how things work. I have only had my TiVo for about a year. I still make a paper schedule since for many years I could not make name/guide based recordings on my other DVRs. But this morning the guide went out to 7pm on 3/26. That meant that 3/25 was filled in. So now there is a "new" on The Daily Show. I added it to my SP and checked my To Do List. As expected, there were repeats on the list before the "new" at 11pm. This is repeatable, so I know to delete these two or they will record.

We don't know if the Tribune Media people fail to get the data or they fail to use what they get. If you check Zap2It, which is also TMS, they indicate only one "new", same with tvguide.com. Perhaps the reliance of a description rather than a "new" bit would fix this. It might make it worse. Perhaps the SP manager doesn't communicate with the To Do List so good.

This is not a life or death problem. The longer I observe the better I understand. But then something will change and I will have to start over again. That's life.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #12
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Hmmm...maybe I need to learn to wait it out. I spend a good half an hour, at least once a week, knocking this stuff off my 'to do' list. I guess I'm a little OCD-ish about it, too. I don't like clutter AND I worry that, between what is already on deck and what is scheduled, that these additional items, that shouldn't be there, will knock out stuff from my 'my shows' list to make room.

I DO notice that the reruns that are checked for recording usually don't have specific episode info (synopsis). But often they will show an OAD that is in the past.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:58 AM   #13
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Perhaps I'm lucky since nothing has ever been deleted by the box. I have 120% of storage on my To Do List normally. You could see if it can happen by recording a show you don't care about and wait for it to be flagged or deleted. The flags (icons) show differently when viewed with the Desktop program. I guess I'm too complacent since I've never had a problem. You can watch the Delete On Date move also.

Last edited by JoeKustra : 03-15-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #14
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Hey, I'd MUCH rather have my TiVo record too many than not enough....
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:43 AM   #15
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I DO notice that the reruns that are checked for recording usually don't have specific episode info (synopsis). But often they will show an OAD that is in the past.
Yes, that's always been true but in this case the show had what appeared to be good ep info (first air date, ep number, new flag) and the box wanted to record every showing of every ep anyway. I can only assume that something in the show's description was bad or that the SP was corrupt somehow, and it wasn't visible to me as lpwcomp said. That is a behavior I've never seen before with hundreds of SPs, but I've only been using Tivos for 5 years or so.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:47 PM   #16
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FX loves to do 3 minute replays for its shows. You will see The Americans Episode xx scheduled on the main night followed by the Americans - Episode xx 3 minute Replay a few nights later. Both are considered new shows. You have to look close at My Shows and To Do to notice the difference. Maybe that's what you're seeing.

Same thing happens with Justified.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
I think we share that slight touch of OCD or curiosity about how things work. I have only had my TiVo for about a year. I still make a paper schedule since for many years I could not make name/guide based recordings on my other DVRs. But this morning the guide went out to 7pm on 3/26. That meant that 3/25 was filled in. So now there is a "new" on The Daily Show. I added it to my SP and checked my To Do List. As expected, there were repeats on the list before the "new" at 11pm. This is repeatable, so I know to delete these two or they will record.

We don't know if the Tribune Media people fail to get the data or they fail to use what they get.
Again, if you wait until a day or so before the recordings, THEY WILL GO AWAY ON THEIR OWN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME AS THE DATA UPDATES.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:21 PM   #18
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OAD "in the past" is usually the date the show itself premiered.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:37 AM   #19
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Again, if you wait until a day or so before the recordings, THEY WILL GO AWAY ON THEIR OWN THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME AS THE DATA UPDATES.
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OAD "in the past" is usually the date the show itself premiered.
You're right and you're right. I figure that the guide "new" means new today and applies to all showings after the first "new" show. I also think that a repeat on a day before the "new" gets recorded most of the time. Subsequent repeats are cancelled per the History log.

Since I have a SP for Jimmy Falon and it drops the "new" next week I expect it to drop off the To Do List then like you said.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:05 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ghostrider45 View Post
FX loves to do 3 minute replays for its shows. You will see The Americans Episode xx scheduled on the main night followed by the Americans - Episode xx 3 minute Replay a few nights later. Both are considered new shows. You have to look close at My Shows and To Do to notice the difference. Maybe that's what you're seeing.

Same thing happens with Justified.
No, it wasn't the 3-minute replays, I know about those and routinely delete them. This was the main show.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:24 AM   #21
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So is TiVo smarter than it used to be about not recording repeats when I specify first runs only? Can I tell it in season pass to record only first run episodes of True Blood, Boardwalk Empire, and other HBO shows (and other problem shows too), and have some confidence that it won't fill up with repeats?

Or do I have to use some sort of Martin T wish list trick?
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:00 PM   #22
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So is TiVo smarter than it used to be about not recording repeats when I specify first runs only? Can I tell it in season pass to record only first run episodes of True Blood, Boardwalk Empire, and other HBO shows (and other problem shows too), and have some confidence that it won't fill up with repeats?

Or do I have to use some sort of Martin T wish list trick?
You may have hit on something there. I don't have wish list enabled and kill any green thumbs up when they appear when scheduling a recording. I never see uninvited shows.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #23
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You may have hit on something there. I don't have wish list enabled and kill any green thumbs up when they appear when scheduling a recording. I never see uninvited shows.
]I assume you're actually talking about suggestions. Wishlists are explicitly created, just like a Season pass, not enabled or disabled.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:17 AM   #24
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This just happened again, on a PBS show called Need to Know. I have an SP set to new-only and noticed multiple showings were set to record - they all had the same non-generic description (which looked to be correct) with same ep #, and they were all set to record.

So I go into SP options, change to new+repeat, save, go in again and change back to new, save, then check ToDo a little later and now the dupes are not set to record.

Looks like my Elite is due for a reboot, I think the scheduler has gone bonkers.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:38 AM   #25
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I have the same problem with The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, but that solution doesn't work in my case, the To Do List is still populated with repeats when I told it to record only new episodes.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:50 AM   #26
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I have the same problem with The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, but that solution doesn't work in my case, the To Do List is still populated with repeats when I told it to record only new episodes.
New shows start next Monday 3/25. Later today delete the two early repeats and the rest of the week will be fine. "new" can't handle a show that's on multiple times per day. Notice that the real repeat after midnight is not scheduled. Now that you know what to do, it's a smaller problem.

Repeat procedure on 4/1 or the early shows will record. It's not just The Daily Show. msnbc has a few as does CNN.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:17 AM   #27
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I have the same problem with The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, but that solution doesn't work in my case, the To Do List is still populated with repeats when I told it to record only new episodes.
That's a different problem explained earlier in the thread, not the one I'm talking about. Search for Tupper Method in the forum for workarounds. This one is a either a bug in the scheduler or bad guide data I can't see.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #28
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New shows start next Monday 3/25. Later today delete the two early repeats and the rest of the week will be fine. "new" can't handle a show that's on multiple times per day. Notice that the real repeat after midnight is not scheduled. Now that you know what to do, it's a smaller problem.
It is not the case that ""new" can't handle a show that's on multiple times per day". The problem is that some shows, like "The Daily Show" do not have individual programIds for episodes so the TiVo has no way to know that the additional showings are duplicates.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:41 PM   #29
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I have the same problem with The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, but that solution doesn't work in my case, the To Do List is still populated with repeats when I told it to record only new episodes.
Is it populated for *today and tomorrow*?

My Tivo hasn't been recording any for this two week break (except MAYBE the very first Monday..). Again, if you wait long enough, do they disappear on their own?

I really think it's only us To-Do-list-OCD people who notice this as much *nowadays*. Yes, when the DS & Colbert guide data was much worse, it *was* a big problem, but nowadays *usually* the guide data does fill in for repeats as time goes on/it comes closer to the generic guide data episodes.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:09 PM   #30
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I really think it's only us To-Do-list-OCD people who notice this as much *nowadays*. Yes, when the DS & Colbert guide data was much worse, it *was* a big problem, but nowadays *usually* the guide data does fill in for repeats as time goes on/it comes closer to the generic guide data episodes.
Exactly what I see with "Robot Chicken".
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